BIG GAME ENGRAVING

[MARK KIRCHER]

I have recently come across an AHE with a moose on one side and an Elk on the other. Are there many examples with Big Game animals on the sides of Parker guns.

[Bruce Day]

Some, but more commonly, the high grades ( C's and above ) have deer or elk on the trigger plate and dogs on the sides. Bottom plate engraving varies widely.

[MARK KIRCHER]

Thanks Bruce - Do you know where I might see pictures of any guns with Big game on the sides? I would like to compare engraving to other examples.

[Steve Huffman]

There is a D grade listed in the engraving forum here with what you talk about.

[Bruce Day]

Mark, I can show you plenty of photos of Parkers with deer or elk on the bottom plate, but I have nothing that has deer or elk on the side panels. Others may help out.

I don't know the implication of your question. Are you trying to determine originality or seeing how uncommon is the engraving? Is this your gun?

A grades varied widely in engraving subjects. Big game animals were common Parker engraving subjects in the high grades. As there was no standard engraving in the A grades, a person should look at each A as unique.

[MARK KIRCHER]

Thanks to all - I sure would appreciate any - I found theDeer on the D that Steve refers to but it is not similar

[MARK KIRCHER]

Bruce - I guess it is a bit of both - I have not found any pictures (save the D) with Big animals on the sides. I do own the gun - it has been blessed as original by an esteemed Parker athority whoose commentary was centered around the uncommon/rare side engraving. That has my curiosity up.
I recognize they were all engraved to the individuals taste. I just wonder if it was uncommon for even for an A to have this style engraving.

[Ed Blake]

Pictures please.

[MARK KIRCHER]

here are the sides

[Jeff Kuss]

Very unusual engraving. Thanks for sharing. What is on the bottom?

[MARK KIRCHER]

here is the bottom

[Bruce Day]

Mark, I would agree with the Parker expert, and he probably needs no concordance from a novice like me. There are a few with side panel engraved big game, but it is uncommon. The most common side panel subject, strictly through seeing a bunch of them, are pointers and setters.

My hunch is that most of the big game engravings were done before about 1912 or so. After that I think that shotgun game subjects prevailed, such as turkeys, grouse, pheasants, ducks, etc. The rabbit guns are interesting.

Here's a bottom plate on a B from the safe. I like it but engraving subject is one of those areas where everybody has an opinion. There are some folks that don't like big game on a shotgun.

[Bruce Day]

Mark, thanks for the photos of your gun. The bottom plate is beautiful ( and common) A work. The elk and moose on the sides are definitely different. Neat. Thanks for sharing. The animal engraving shows more muscular and blocky animals than what you usually see in Parker engraving. Interesting.

[MARK KIRCHER]

Bruce - Frankly - big game on a shotgun is "not exactly my cup of tea" but I cannot resist one of these unique guns when they come along. Variety being a spice and all. Thanks for the comments and photo. I really appreciate them.

[Larry Frey]

There was a restocked AHE with deer and elk on the side plates at the Greenwich show this weekend that the promoter had for sale. Sorry but no pictures.

[Dean Romig]

The engraving on the AHE Larry refers to was very well executed and the seller had been told that the big game animals on the sides of the frame devalued the gun but I disagree with that philosophy especially where the person giving that opinion was someone who wished to buy the gun.....
It is my opinion that the big game animals or anything engraved which is a departure from that which is considered the "standard for the grade" elevates the value of the gun if it is tastefully and artistically done.

[Norm Growden]

Bruce:

Do you have pics of rabbit engraving you could share?

[Bruce Day]

Norm, I don't. they were on my old computer and the hard drive crashed. They are on an AHE 12ga and are a wonderful, charming scene. There are two rabbits playing in a forest opening while a fox is watching intently from the trigger guard bow. The gun is owned by a shooting buddy and I can get new photos some time.

If you are a beagle guy, you should talk to Charlie Herzog. Charlie runs the small beagles and has had a national champion, runs trials regularly in Missouri and Illinois, and is a national field trial judge. He has a large plot with high fencing and keeps rabbits in there for the dogs to run.

Jeff Kuss has a gun with rabbits.

[Norm Growden]

As primarily a rabbit hunter, I'd be grateful if you and your buddy would be able to share at some point in the future. I guess it's too much to hope for beagles on the sides?

[Bruce Day]

...... the seller had been told that the big game animals on the sides of the frame devalued the gun .....



What a bunch of BS. If the guy didn't like the gun he should have kept his mouth shut and walked away. I don't get where some of these self serving "experts" come from.

[Mark Ouellette]

Those used car salesmen seem to be at every gunshow. I met one last Sunday while holding a wonderful Fox Sterlingworth the I had just bought from a guy walking it throught the show. The gun had a couple wood issues but it had 90% factory case colors! The used car guy was trying to pick it apart. I politely but firmly told him the conversation was over.

In the end the beautiful Sterlingworth didn't come home with me. An LC Smith Sryacuse Quality 2 in 10 Gauge was however added to my collection of 10 bores. It was an even trade for the little Fox and the gentleman I traded with has several Parkers tucked away that is is going to show me!

From the looks of the Sryacuse Smith the older gentleman may have a unique Parker that he may be willing to sell to me. One can only hope!

Mark

[Bill Murphy]

Mark, I have a friend, now passed, who ordered many high grade Parkers from Remington and probably Parker Brothers. He was quite a serious big game hunter. Do you have any idea of the identity of the original owner of your gun or what part of the country it came from?

[MARK KIRCHER]

Bill - I am learning a little at a time. It was a presentation gun - the grip cap shows H.W.S. (Henry Willis Smith -not positive of Smith spelling) from E.W. and J.N.M. (??????)
I am told HWS at least spent time in Livingston Manor, Sullivan County, NY - gateway to the Catskills.
To date that is all I have learned - any help would be appreciated.

[Bill Murphy]

Mark, thank you for the information. Unfortunately, these initials don't jive with my information. The gentleman I suspected may have ordered that gun is Robert Smith of Dayton, Ohio. I suspect that some of our members may own some of his guns and maybe recognize his name.

[Chuck Bishop]

Mark,

I have a pristine DH straight grip 12ga that was ordered in 1903 by E.W. Smith of Buffalo NY. See my avitar. The little I've been able to gather on E.W. is that he was a well known pigeon shooter at the Audubon Gun Club of Buffalo NY. Sullivan Co is a bit east of Buffalo but who knows, maybe H.W.S is a relative.

[MARK KIRCHER]

Could be - I will advise if I am able to learn more