If grouse, woodcock and trout are your life...

[Andrew Sacco]

....where would you retire?

I am about 10-12 years from retirement, maybe sooner and I'm starting to fret over this. I love my home, my land (88 acres) and some family is still here. But I'm growing weary of NY State. Our kids will not come back here. Taxes go up and up. Our home is nice, not a million dollar home by ANY means, but my property taxes are $18,800 a year. I don't think out West will work for my wife and we want to be near kids, a day's drive but we don't know where they'll end up. Everyone is moving to Tennessee these days (or Florida ugh..). I want trout fishing, grouse and woodcock hunting, any upland birds in addition. I am a stone's throw from the Catskills so trout fishing is amazing. Anyone care to share their dream location whether you live there or not? I don't mind winter but mind it more and more every year.

[Tom Pellegrini]

Andy,
Try looking at Central South Carolina. Trout fishing in the Western part and bird hunting just about all over the state.

[Hal Sheets]

Up state or central Pennsylvania !

[Reggie Bishop]

I have a good friend who has in-laws in northern Idaho. According to him it’s a bird hunters paradise there!

[Rick Losey]

getting to be a common conversation for upstaters

[Andrew Sacco]

My wife wants NC near surf city and the coast. Carolinas seems logical. But Idaho is what I hear for fishing, hunting, biking, skiing and just being out there.

[Dean Romig]

The western Maine mountains. You might have to travel an hour or two for woodcock but everything else on your wish list can be easily found there... and then some!





.

[Jeff Peck]

What a great decision. Trout season is much longer than bird season, so that is a factor.

Upland bird has always been a great time, especially with family and a great Parker at our side. I would take bird cover, then travel to fish.

Hopefully, only 9 more years for me to decide.

!

[Andrew Sacco]

Dean I could handle that but I would be wifeless. She loves Portland Maine though. We were married in Camden so the state is special to us.

[Chad Hefflinger]

Tough call, the older I get the more I think about it. I’m pretty happy here in norther Ohio, a few hous from fantastic grouse and woodcock hunting in northern MI, and walleye and perch fishing from my home. But, the older I get the less I like the cold, I too wonder where is the place to bein 10 years.

[allen newell]

I'm a widow having lost my wife to cancer some 8 years ago. My oldest daughter and my grandson live with me and my other daughter and family live just 10 minutes from me. They would be apoplectic if I sold the house here in Plymouth, Mass and moved out of state. I'm locked in. But if it were possible to move it would be to northern Maine where I could hunt and fly fish to my heart's content. And Sophie, my setter would be in heaven.

[Jerry Harlow]

Virginia is full.

In order to preserve hunting and fishing we are cutting off Northern Virginia as soon as possible, letting them become part of Delaware, Maryland; maybe even D.C. to make state number fifty-one as promised (or fifty-eight as Barack said he had visited). We are hoping for a border wall as soon as possible, and like NY forbidding all out of state vehicles from getting off I-95. To sweeten the deal, we will throw in Richmond, Charlottesville, and Norfolk/Virginia Beach. They can keep the like-minded Governor and his mansion on the hill with fences around it and give him a second term since he is so well loved there.

As our beloved President Jeff Davis said, "All we ask is to be left alone." (We have one more President here than y'all do. The newest one is really number 47.):)

[Garry L Gordon]

It might be good to consider what other factors might be important. Do you want to live in a higher population area? What about the healthcare nearby?
There are places in the "middle" of the country that have great features for an upland hunter and angler. SE Minnesota has some of the best trout fishing you'll find outside of the mountain west. There are grouse there, and flighting woodcock, but not in great numbers (but almost no grouse hunters -- it's big buck/turkey country), but you'll be a shorter drive to some of the best, and most available, grouse/woodcock hunting in the northern part of the state. Great healthcare at the Mayo Clinic...if you can get in.

During the 10-12 years you have before you retire, you might try hunting and fishing in some of these prospective places. Also, consider hunting some other upland birds and fishing for other species (I know, sounds like heresy!). There are some great places to live in low population areas, do some great upland hunting, and fish most of the year. If you are not far from an airport, your family can visit whenever...and they might be more inclined if traveling is to a place that's like a vacation site for them.

Good luck. Dream big, but consider some of the other variables (as I'm sure you are).

(BTW, We have 160 acres in addition to our house (a quite small older house for sure), and our taxes in Missouri are about $175 for the land (farm taxes are very, very low) and for all other things -- house, cars, tractor, etc -- we pay about $1700 -- a far cry from what you cite. Of course, our roads are crummy, our schools not so hot, etc. BUT our Conservation Dept. is a model for the rest of the country as it is funded (at least for now) in large part by a 1/8 percent sales tax. The population in the top two tiers of counties in Missouri is lower now than it was in 1900, and land is cheap enough that guys from out of state buy it up for hunting. So many things to consider, but you have time.)

[Andrew Sacco]

I appreciate all the feedback and opinions. About 7-8 years ago I was having a mental overload with work and packed up one of my dogs and drove to Minnesota. Rented a cabin in the woods by myself and grouse hunted alone. My wife was not very happy with me, calling it "selfish and foolish" to go alone. It sure did straighten out my mind and I remember, "This is what heaven must be like...birds, a cabin and endless vistas of second growth." I know it's not realistic as we need more in life, but I can always dream : )

[Joseph Sheerin]

wow, 18k a year in taxes, that you know will be used efficiently and wisely.... :-)

I don't pay but 1/4 that here in MO, and I have a nice home, and some acreage in NC Missouri with a small cabin.

My wife and I are approaching retirement soon, and this topic comes up a lot. Do we stay here or move to place that has some of the activities we love close to our front door. Fly fishing, golf, hunting. I am thinking about WY and keeping a smaller place down south somewhere for Jan-Mar living, as the older I get the more I dislike winter. :-)

[Paul Ehlers]

This is a common question in many parts of the country. I'm a fourth generation Coloradan with deep roots steeped in the western traditions I was raised in. Colorado has experienced absolutely crazy growth from people relocating here from other states and because of this, things here are changed forever.

Just about everyone I've talked to that have been long time Coloradans all have the desire to pull up stakes and move somewhere they see as their utopia. I'm in the same boat myself especially since I retired three years ago. I'm in a situation where I am the care provider for my 90yr old mother and can't move because of this. Believe me when I say, if things were different I would be out of here. I've thought about where I would go a lot over the years and have came to the conclusion they there is no perfect place, especially as you grow older. Things are changing so fast these days with so many people on the move from one place to another that it makes it really hard to pick a place because the place you have chosen will be changing as more people discover it and move there as well. One big factor to consider is when you move into a new state or small town. You will be an outsider and it will take a long time for you to be accepted & may never be fully accepted.

I've even considered leaving the country and have looked at some of those options, but have come to the conclusion that's not realistic for me. It's really too bad that Mexico is so screwed up. I could easily live some where in Mexico where it's warm year around and has great fishing, upland bird & waterfowl hunting close by combined with a low cost of living.

I dream of these things, but the realities of life have me tied down, so these things will remain a dream for now. Good luck with you're personal dreams, but keep in mind that ten years from now everything will be different due to how fast things are changing in this country. America is on the move!!

[George Davis]

Montana!!!!!

[Andrew Sacco]

Montana!!!!!

Of course! I love Yellowstone country and could surely survive there. I could spend my lonely winter days writing letters to my wife because I would surely be alone :crying:

[Dave Noreen]

Kodiak, Alaska, can't beat the fishing and switch from grouse to Ptarmigan.

[Tom Flanigan]

I live in Pawling, NY and the taxes are horrible. I had always thought that upon retirement, I would move to Estes Park, Colorado. I took three trips a year there hiking to altitude for greenback cutthroat trout. It's a great town and taxes are low.

But I decided to retire to Pawling, my home town. I have great hunting and fly fishing at my doorstep. You might consider Colorado. It's beautiful and there are some really nice towns. Travel to prospective locations before you retire. The town of Estes Park is beautiful and you can fish the many rivers in the area. It is also within striking distance of Wyoming and the wonderful North Platte river. Hunting is great in the North Platte area north of Casper. Many mule deer, pronghorns and elk. You don’t need a guide. Just drive out of Alcova and explore. You’ll see much game on open government land and damn few other hunters. No grouse and woodcock but the sharptails can keep you busy.

If you decide to go out there, send me a message and I can tell you some great spots for hunting and fly fishing.

[Andrew Sacco]

I live in Pawling, NY and the taxes are horrible. I had always thought that upon retirement, I would move to Estes Park, Colorado. I took three trips a year there hiking to altitude for greenback cutthroat trout. It's a great town and taxes are low.

But I decided to retire to Pawling, my home town. I have great hunting and fly fishing at my doorstep. You might consider Colorado. It's beautiful and there are some really nice towns. Travel to prospective locations before you retire. The town of Estes Park is beautiful and you can fish the many rivers in the area. It is also within striking distance of Wyoming and the wonderful North Platte river. Hunting is great in the North Platte area north of Casper. Many mule deer, pronghorns and elk. You don’t need a guide. Just drive out of Alcova and explore. You’ll see much game on open government land and damn few other hunters. No grouse and woodcock but the sharptails can keep you busy.

If you decide to go out there, send me a message and I can tell you some great spots for hunting and fly fishing.

I looked on a map. YUP, you're in the high rent district there within striking distance of NYC and CT Tom! Thank you, always wanted to get out the the Estes Park area.

[charlie cleveland]

the southern states like Georgia Alabama Mississippi tenn..are great states...not much cold good hunting good fishing...fairly cheap taxes.and best of all good people to live by....most of the time... charlie

[Shawn Wayment]

Andy,
Try looking at Central South Carolina. Trout fishing in the Western part and bird hunting just about all over the state.

Shhhhhh! :cool: Just kidding. My wife and I love SC. We're gonna go between Tucson AZ and SC in a couple years. I just sold my practice this past December and if Colorado continues to head the direction of CA...I'm out of here sooner than later!

Taxes at 18K/YR ought to be a crime!

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Andy, you posed a great question that I have pondered for years. Back in 1983 when I graduated from optometry school at Ohio State, I was adamant about wanting to move where I could hunt grouse and have good fishing for smallmouth and walleye. To that end, I took the board exams in Michigan and Wisconsin, and took a driving/camping tour thru Northern Wisconsin and the Upper Peninsula. I was also going to take Minnesota boards. I was then offered a position in an HMO Medical clinic eye dept just 10 miles from where I grew up. Well, everything I wanted was there. eastern Ohio had phenomenal grouse hunting with a season that came in around Oct 10, and went thru the end of February . The woodcock migration was good in November. Hunting 2 1/2 days/week with good dogs( we shot pointed birds only), it was common to shoot 40-50 grouse per season. Flushes of 30 birds/day--not counting reflushes--were not unusual. Then in 1986, I made my first trip to the UP, and have not missed a year since. The grouse hunting wasnt better in the UP than it was in OHio and West Virginia, but it sure is a hell of alot easier. Flat ground and lack of blood letting briars was a welcome change to us brush worn Appalachian grouse hunters. One week trips ,turned into 10 day trips, then 2 weeks and now 3.
Then the plummeting of the grouse population to almost endangered specie levels happened. The DNR said poor habitat, thats bull, I spent the day today in fantastic grouse cover, no birds. In 2009 I told the DNR it was West Nile virus--have a MS in Microbiology, and was working on PhD--now look what they have suddenly come up with--WNV!
Well , I digress. Good fishing is certainly easier to find than good grouse hunting. I love the UP, and the great northwoods of Wis. and Minn. Idaho offers such a wide variety and really piques my interest--I believe I'm going to have to go there in upcoming years.
Congrats Shawn on your retirement. My wife loves South Carolina also, esp around the Hilton Head area--cant really see the bird hunting very good in SC, what with the demise of wild quail and dearth of grouse in the mountains now.
Andy, tuff choice. My heart draws me to the Northwoods, but my wife wants to head South. Good luck on your decision.

[Shawn Wayment]

Andy, you posed a great question that I have pondered for years. Back in 1983 when I graduated from optometry school at Ohio State, I was adamant about wanting to move where I could hunt grouse and have good fishing for smallmouth and walleye. To that end, I took the board exams in Michigan and Wisconsin, and took a driving/camping tour thru Northern Wisconsin and the Upper Peninsula. I was also going to take Minnesota boards. I was then offered a position in an HMO Medical clinic eye dept just 10 miles from where I grew up. Well, everything I wanted was there. eastern Ohio had phenomenal grouse hunting with a season that came in around Oct 10, and went thru the end of February . The woodcock migration was good in November. Hunting 2 1/2 days/week with good dogs( we shot pointed birds only), it was common to shoot 40-50 grouse per season. Flushes of 30 birds/day--not counting reflushes--were not unusual. Then in 1986, I made my first trip to the UP, and have not missed a year since. The grouse hunting wasnt better in the UP than it was in OHio and West Virginia, but it sure is a hell of alot easier. Flat ground and lack of blood letting briars was a welcome change to us brush worn Appalachian grouse hunters. One week trips ,turned into 10 day trips, then 2 weeks and now 3.
Then the plummeting of the grouse population to almost endangered specie levels happened. The DNR said poor habitat, thats bull, I spent the day today in fantastic grouse cover, no birds. In 2009 I told the DNR it was West Nile virus--have a MS in Microbiology, and was working on PhD--now look what they have suddenly come up with--WNV!
Well , I digress. Good fishing is certainly easier to find than good grouse hunting. I love the UP, and the great northwoods of Wis. and Minn. Idaho offers such a wide variety and really piques my interest--I believe I'm going to have to go there in upcoming years.
Congrats Shawn on your retirement. My wife loves South Carolina also, esp around the Hilton Head area--cant really see the bird hunting very good in SC, what with the demise of wild quail and dearth of grouse in the mountains now.
Andy, tuff choice. My heart draws me to the Northwoods, but my wife wants to head South. Good luck on your decision.

Thanks Harold!

We could be neighbors and head southwest to AZ for the winter to chase desert quail! :bigbye:

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Yeah, and we could move in on my veterinarian brother in Ashville, NC and look for some grouse in the mtns there. He's got a Fox Model B in 20 ga that I gave him.

[Stan Hillis]

....cant really see the bird hunting very good in SC, what with the demise of wild quail and dearth of grouse in the mountains now.

You're overlooking one of the finest game birds ever created, the Mourning Dove. Dove shooting in the Carolinas and Georgia can be spectacular.

SRH

[Andrew Sacco]

Harold, I really love your reply and thoughts and am envious of the time you've had in the field. I feel like I'm too old at 56 to just start discovering these wonderful guns, but heck, gotta start sometime. I graduated optometry school in 1990 and did a residency and then decided I wanted my own practice. It just turned 30 years old and I look back and have done well but missed a hell of a lot of time in the woods and waters. I'm trying to change it. 8 years ago I reached a point of total burnout and headed out with two guns, one dog, and drove to Minnesota alone and rented a cabin in the woods. My wife was MAD. But I got birds, bad shooting and all, and I got back to the grindstone. I am going to just cancel a few days and go to Maine this fall, alone or with someone, as I need it after this COVID year! I keep telling myself "there's always tomorrow" to hunt and fish and I have to start just making it happen. I hope to shake your hand this year Harold and I appreciate your thoughts on this stressful topic.

[Andrew Sacco]

You're overlooking one of the finest game birds ever created, the Mourning Dove. Dove shooting in the Carolinas and Georgia can be spectacular.

SRH

Bucket list. Have never shot one. I see them sitting in the trees and phone lines and they look pretty easy : ) NY doesn't have a season although I've been helping lobby for one for years. The downstate doorknobs won't allow it.

[Mike McKinney]

I have lived in Western NC all my life, the far west for 13 years. I got my first Brittany in 1987 and we taught each other. Killed 3 grouse that first year. The next year we knew more about hunting, the habitat to look for, shot a little better, and my dog made a lot of progress. As Harold said, hunting and finding grouse was good. We hunted nearly always on NFS land and I’ve said myself before that three were as many grouse here as the UP, but I couldn’t wait to get there. My first trip was 1989 and my brother and myself planned to go every year, and did until 2000. I’ve been a couple of times since but it wasn’t the same without my brother.
We began to see less birds here in the late ‘90’s to the point it was hard to go regularly as it became just a hike. We always blamed it on habitat as the forest service just didn’t and haven’t cut much timber as it didn’t suit the tree huggers.
I used to think about going where the game was, but I think I’ve figured out I’m just a hillbilly, so I guess the next time we move will be when one of the girls need us to be closer.
There are lots of creeks and rivers to fish in, several lakes, good opportunities to be outside. Lot’s of folks have discovered our area and they want to be here, but they want it to be just like where they left.........but it’s still home to me.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

We will have to disagree on that Stan. Dove shooting, is well, just shooting. No hunting involved--and yes I have done it to pass the time before real hunting starts. Maybe because it just wasnt tradition where I grew up.I will usually go once a year. Honestly, not trying to dis doves, just not my thing.

[Reggie Bishop]

If dove shooting isn’t hunting what is deer hunting? You sit in a tree and wait for one to walk by. Dove hunting involves knowing their feeding habits, watering and roosting and being there to shoot them? I have only deer hunted once in my life and was bored to death sitting in a tree freezing my butt off! Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

[Reggie Bishop]

I have lived in Western NC all my life, the far west for 13 years. I got my first Brittany in 1987 and we taught each other. Killed 3 grouse that first year. The next year we knew more about hunting, the habitat to look for, shot a little better, and my dog made a lot of progress. As Harold said, hunting and finding grouse was good. We hunted nearly always on NFS land and I’ve said myself before that three were as many grouse here as the UP, but I couldn’t wait to get there. My first trip was 1989 and my brother and myself planned to go every year, and did until 2000. I’ve been a couple of times since but it wasn’t the same without my brother.
We began to see less birds here in the late ‘90’s to the point it was hard to go regularly as it became just a hike. We always blamed it on habitat as the forest service just didn’t and haven’t cut much timber as it didn’t suit the tree huggers.
I used to think about going where the game was, but I think I’ve figured out I’m just a hillbilly, so I guess the next time we move will be when one of the girls need us to be closer.
There are lots of creeks and rivers to fish in, several lakes, good opportunities to be outside. Lot’s of folks have discovered our area and they want to be here, but they want it to be just like where they left.........but it’s still home to me.

Which almost mirrors East Tennessee Mike!

[Harold Lee Pickens]

My humble apologies to the dove shooters, as soon as I hit the submit button, I thought, shouldnt have said that. Didn't really mean any disrespect .There was no dove season in Ohio until the mid 1990's, so just wasnt something we did, no tradition. I know its a big deal elsewhere.
Im not a big deer hunter either, but cant hunt birds during gun season in Ohio. I need to walk with a bird dog out front to be happy.

[Stan Hillis]

The folks who never have had to scout doves to plan a dove shoot are usually the ones who think of it as only shooting. The man who did the leg work and put in the hours of work determining if there were enough birds feeding there to invite a dozen or more people is definitely a hunter. Most dove hunters I know have paid their dues and done their time scouting. I spend many more hours scouting than i do shooting.

No problem, Harold. It's not always easy to understand what goes into a hunt until you're on the other side of it.

SRH

[Brett Hoop]

Interesting topic. Knowing what you want seems to be almost as hard as affording it. About the only thing I want more of is October. And I’ll be spending those in the north woods talking mostly with a Setter and occasionally cussing at myself.

When the kids were growing up they liked the beach and we would hit that for a week. I usually I would hitch a ride on a Big game boat and we’d run 80 miles out to the canyons and fish for tuna or white marlin. That was fun, but couldn’t do it often the beach is biggest part of 8 hours away. Had to compromise and settle for a Great Lake beach and walleye and steelhead fishing. The boat at 25’ hard top is half the size of fishing vessels but still plenty of adventure. And just 2 1/2 hours from home. The sunsets are just as epic as any ocean. World class steelhead stream fishing, no it isn’t bending cane floating drys at Henry’s Fork and the waters are never as emerald as the Shoshone coming out of the gorge. But the lake run bows will rival their relatives from the Cinder River on the Alaskan peninsula.
All of that is in NE Ohio, and yes it features winter as a season, but can be very beach like 5 months of the year. Grouse aren’t there but you can be at the Mighty Mac in about 7 hours and you’ll have driven past a few grouse already.

[Andrew Sacco]

Oh boy a feud : ) I once fished on Catharine Creek outside the Finger Lakes for running rainbows with a friend who madly wanted us to go. My buddy and I fly fish. We used weight, egg sacks, spinning reels with ungodly long rods. It was H E L L. My buddy told the guy who took us, "Well, the NASCAR blaring on the radio from your damn RV on the side of the stream kinda spoiled the mood dude..." The response was firm and strong and I realized we're all in this game together. It's better than shooting up crack and looting 711's. We all have a common theme whether it's deer, doves or mudbats. My proselytizing is over.

[Shawn Wayment]

If I was to pick just one state for fishing and hunting...it would be Idaho...my home state. You can still get access to private land by knocking on doors or calling people and asking. There's more blm and state land then you could hunt or fish in a life time too. Idaho has stream access to the high water mark even on private property. I've fished the Big Wood River in Sun Valley right in all those Hollywood elite's backyards...had em yell at us but they couldn't do a darn thing about it. Idaho has 5 species of grouse, valley quail, bobwhites, pheasants, chukars and loads and loads of huns. True bird hunters paradise.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Idaho has been on my radar for several years now, but would probably take 3 days to get there. Its variety intrigues me. Does your brother the optometrist share yours and Andrew's passion for upland hunting and fishing?

[Andrew Sacco]

Idaho would be heaven.

[Shawn Wayment]

Idaho has been on my radar for several years now, but would probably take 3 days to get there. Its variety intrigues me. Does your brother the optometrist share yours and Andrew's passion for upland hunting and fishing?

My brother Scott lives in AZ now...he loves to bird hunt but would much rather big game hunt. He's taken several large mule deer, antelope and a Dall sheep in AK.

[Shawn Wayment]

Idaho would be heaven.

It is...just can't convince my wife :crying:she loves the beach and no snow

[Andrew Sacco]

It is...just can't convince my wife :crying:she loves the beach and no snow

Exactly what I am fighting here. But our kids are 13, 17, 19 so have a ways to go. We were married in Maine and love it, and I asked "What about a small rustic cabin in northern-ish Maine?" And she said, "What about a larger modern home on the water on the lower coast of Maine?" I said, "That's a heck of a LOT more money honey.." to which she replied, "What am I going to do when you're hunting???" I asked, "Who said you were going with me!!!" :rotf::rotf::rotf:

[Dave Noreen]

I have the opposite issue. My Wife having been born and raised in Kodiak, AK, would be perfectly happy to live there full time. I think I'd eventually go nuts being a nine hour ferry ride to the mainland. Don't mind spending summers there, but we haven't been able to go the last two years. I had all the reservations made for our drive up and the ferry ride last spring. First thing that happened was the hotel in Whitehorse, YT, canceled our reservation, then the State of Alaska shut down the ferries. The other reservations tumbled after that.

Spring visitor in our yard --

92564

We are right in town along the channel into the harbor.

[Craig Larter]

I Love the Finger Lakes Region of Western NY. We do have 4 seasons but I enjoy the change in seasons. I have the ability to move anywhere in the country but I made my life here and have all my friends and other connections to the community. I have good fishing, upland, waterfowl and deer hunting in close proximity. I travel to the west and southern states to experience what I can't hunt here. Taxes are high and regulation is a pain but picking up my life and starting over at 71 is not appealing to me.

[Andrew Sacco]

I Love the Finger Lakes Region of Western NY. We do have 4 seasons but I enjoy the change in seasons. I have the ability to move anywhere in the country but I made my life here and have all my friends and other connections to the community. I have good fishing, upland, waterfowl and deer hunting in close proximity. I travel to the west and southern states to experience what I can't hunt here. Taxes are high and regulation is a pain but picking up my life and starting over at 71 is not appealing to me.

I understand this completely Craig. It is a beautiful area around the Finger Lakes. I'm sure a lot of people who aren't from NY would be blown away by the beauty of upstate. Then they'd high tail it outa here when they got their tax bill. A good friend put his Skaneateles lake home up for sale when his tax bill hit $40,000 a year. Nice home, but that's just criminal.

[Gary Bodrato]

A local Police Officer charted the National Weather Service and other means to chart the mean average temperature across the US every day for ten years prior to his retiring. His conclusion was Eastern Tennessee for the least fluctuation of temperature. How the hunting and fishing is, is another question.

[Rich Anderson]

Its a no brainer the upper peninsula of Michigan until December then either Arizona or New Mexico for three species of quail, more fishing and maybe some deer hunting as well.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Rich, that would be a great combo, have to speak to the wife about the southwest.
Are you back from Georgia?

[Russell E. Cleary]

Andy:

On the Hauseman’s thread you asked if there were other Bone-fishers on the forum. This thread may be more suitable for my answer.

I generally fish for what I can eat (which is bad form in Bone-fishing), even if most of what I generally catch is released. But I did sample a day of Bone-fishing on a chartered trip, out of Islamorada, in the Florida Keys. It was many years ago.

That Bone-fishing is a sight-fishery appealed to me, making it as much a hunting as a fishing trip.

We were spin-fishing, not that such a "crude” method in our case made it any more “effective”, as my friend and I did not hook one.

We saw a huge Tarpon underwater on the edge of the bank that we stopped to fish on, and most exciting of all was seeing a moving Permit cutting its fin out like a Swordfish would. It was working its way across the reef at so rapid a clip that our guide could not pole fast enough to keep up with it. Thus, the elements were present of hunt AND chase.

It was an enjoyable and memorable outing, with all the “Conch” atmospherics – pastel colors, sun, and warmth -- that one would expect in those climes.

In reading through this entire thread, it does look like we are fortunate to have a myriad of hunting and fishing opportunities in this country, from sea to shining sea. I wish you luck in settling on a destination that is best for you and your wife.

[Ed Norman]

Andy,
I live in northern lower peninsula of Michigan, about 1.5 hours south of the mackinac bridge. We have very good grouse and woodcock hunting here, we have trout streams, good fishing almost everywhere. I can take a run to the upper peninsula and hunt and fish up there too. About an hour or so south of us seems to be the better weather area, if we get 8 inches of snow they get 4. Every once in a while the tables will turn and they will get more snow than we do. I am looking for property in the upper peninsula as we speak,for another grouse hunting area. I may end up in the eastern upper peninsula because I have a cousin that lives up there. We are in the snow belt area (around Gaylord on the map) So you just have to get used to snow, I have often thought about durham north carolina to get away from the snow for a while during winter we have relatives down there too. My taxes are under 2 grand a year, we live on a canal that goes out into an 850 acre lake. We will be selling this home and I am building a home with an attached/heated garage for my wife. She struggles every winter our garage is 100 feet from the house and full of my stuff. She parks as close to the house as possible and when she gets home at 11 p.m. its tough to walk to the house on ice. We also have cross country skiing and snowshoeing and ice fishing, if you set your house up correctly then the winters up here aren't nearly as hard. Good luck Andy.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Ed you are certainly in the snow belt. This past December your area was covered with snow on my way up and back down from the UP, but had no snow in the UP, except for right around the bridge. I remember several times when the road was quite dicey in the Gaylord area (4WD), but was nothing after getting across the Mac--and that was in October.

[Andrew Sacco]

Why thank you Ed! Sounds like you live close to paradise.

[Gary Laudermilch]

Ed, I hunted grouse in the Atlanta area for a number of years. Nice country and easy shooting compared to where I live and hunt. On our first hunt there my son commented that you can actually see the birds here, not like at home.

[Tom Flanigan]

We will have to disagree on that Stan. Dove shooting, is well, just shooting. No hunting involved--and yes I have done it to pass the time before real hunting starts. Maybe because it just wasnt tradition where I grew up.I will usually go once a year. Honestly, not trying to dis doves, just not my thing.


I understand where Harold is coming from. I grew up in NY and doves were considered song birds and no hunting was allowed. I shot them when I lived in Maryland but I never really got into it based on my NY upbringing.

But I also understand the long tradition of dove hunting in the South. It is a big deal there with families often participating. It’s a tradition passed down through the generations, just as my grouse hunting is a tradition passed down to me.

[Garry L Gordon]

I understand where Harold is coming from. I grew up in NY and doves were considered song birds and no hunting was allowed. I shot them when I lived in Maryland but I never really got into it based on my NY upbringing.

But I also understand the long tradition of dove hunting in the South. It is a big deal there with families often participating. It’s a tradition passed down through the generations, just as my grouse hunting is a tradition passed down to me.

Those traditions are strong -- and distinctive -- for many of us.

And the way Stan describes his dove hunting,, involving scouting, blinds, and, I'm sure, strategic positioning, it's very similar to hunting from a well placed deer stand, or finding the right spot to pass shoot a prairie chicken coming into a bean field to eat in the afternoon. It's much more than just shooting.

[Reggie Bishop]

When I was a teenager my family lived in rural Tennessee. There was a large tract of land that had what seemed like at least 100 minnow ponds on it. The owners raised the minnows to sell to retail outlets. Some of the ponds didn't hold water well being mostly dry with water on one side or in one small spot. Late in the day doves would fly into those "dry ponds" to water and take their fill of small gravel. I sat there many days as the sun was setting with my 20 gauge Winchester shooting those birds. It reminded me of a waterfowl hunter shooting incoming ducks only the target was mush smaller and zigged and zagged much more than an incoming duck! That was hunting to me!

[Garry L Gordon]

When I was a teenager my family lived in rural Tennessee. There was a large tract of land that had what seemed like at least 100 minnow ponds on it. The owners raised the minnows to sell to retail outlets. Some of the ponds didn't hold water well being mostly dry with water on one side or in one small spot. Late in the day doves would fly into those "dry ponds" to water and take their fill of small gravel. I sat there many days as the sun was setting with my 20 gauge Winchester shooting those birds. It reminded me of a waterfowl hunter shooting incoming ducks only the target was mush smaller and zigged and zagged much more than an incoming duck! That was hunting to me!

Reggie, I know we can't "go back," but it doesn't keep me from wishing we could.

[Andrew Sacco]

I would love to dove hunt. And while I've been reading these responses, I think the following:

Sitting in a tree waiting for a deer to walk by sure doesn't sound like hunting (unless you're scouting and hunting a particular deer)

Walking looking for birds isn't really hunting, the dog is surely hunting for you

Shooting hogs from a helicopter isn't hunting

Shooting black bears over bait is most certainly not hunting

Shooting ducks from a blind isn't hunting since they were probably going to land anyways

The point is we can criticize any form of hunting and it's rather pointless. Do what you LOVE, but do it with a Parker : ) That being said, I might just go break in my 16g Trojan (choked F/F) doing some squirrel HUNTING this weekend.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Great points Andy. Yes I have changed my mind, and will once again beg forgiveness from my fellow Parker shooters, Stan and Reggie--matter of fact, I will buy you a drink if we ever meet up.
Stan, my little DHE 16 st grip O frame came out of Anderson hardware in Atlanta, Ga.--26" cyl/mod, had to be somebodies quail gun.

[Andrew Sacco]

Wasn't directed at anyone in particular Harold. I will take a drink too please, and I want to see that gun!

[Garry L Gordon]

Is there a line forming for Harold's drink buying? I have dibs on the spot behind Andy...

[Andrew Sacco]

Is there a line forming for Harold's drink buying? I have dibs on the spot behind Andy...

I'm going to be there a while...

[Reggie Bishop]

Great points Andy. Yes I have changed my mind, and will once again beg forgiveness from my fellow Parker shooters, Stan and Reggie--matter of fact, I will buy you a drink if we ever meet up.
Stan, my little DHE 16 st grip O frame came out of Anderson hardware in Atlanta, Ga.--26" cyl/mod, had to be somebodies quail gun.

Harold just sell me the little straight grip and we will be all good. :cool:

[Rich Anderson]

Good luck Reggie. I tried getting that away from him several years ago. He once told me he didn't shoot it well IIRC. I need a grade 3 16. I foolishly traded a nice Damascus gun for a 30 inch A grade Fox. The Fox was a nice gun but I didn't shoot it much and sold it to a friend. Now I don't have either of them:banghead:

[Ed Norman]

Nice thread Andy, it really gets me to thinking about stuff. The upper peninsula is almost a different "world" compared to lower michigan in many respects. I really do love the upper peninsula. I am more worried about wolves than anything else hunting up there. My brittany often ranges out over 100 yards if we are in an area I am familiar with. We have coyotes down here and I think they could probably be just as dangerous in certain situations. I saw Garry post a picture of a wolf track when he hunted in Minnesota earlier. I am talking to a couple of guys in the upper peninsula as we speak about the hunting up there, the wolves, bird populations etc. I won't know until I try it out I guess. I would urge anyone who has never hunted grouse or woodcock over a bird dog to try to find someone to hunt with. And go out as many times as you can, its quite an experience. I am addicted to my "walks in the woods" watching a good dog do what he was put on earth to do. There is nothing quite like it. As I get more time off from my work, I would try my best to help anyone who has not experienced bird hunting to give them a chance. Its as much as an "open" invitation that I can give under the circumstances. I also have a buddy with 2 really good bird dogs his dogs are getting older, so he hunts them an hour or so apiece and the other can rest a little and go again. I bet he would enjoy taking a guy out to experience bird hunting. I wish you the best Andy in your search, heck I have a nice house on the water for sale coming up soon:) were close to two nice size towns about 40 minutes from each one. Andy I know you could buy my house, yeah thats it, I might even raise some quail or chukars for my buddies with bird dogs and you could probably get in on that too:) My new hunting buddy moved to Utah, and built a nice home, one of their daughters live just a few minutes from me. They lasted a year out there before missing their kids. A lot to think about as we get older. Good luck again Andy.

[Ed Norman]

Ed, I hunted grouse in the Atlanta area for a number of years. Nice country and easy shooting compared to where I live and hunt. On our first hunt there my son commented that you can actually see the birds here, not like at home.

Gary,
Atlanta is one of the many many places I want to try hunting, its about an hour away. There is another place about a half hour north of me, a glass customer gave me a book his neighbor wrote called "ghost" by Capt. Tony Petrella, it was quite a nice book to read. Tony used to donate a hunt every year to the ruffed grouse society. His dog I heard was quite a bird dog, the guys would go crazy bidding for the chance to watch his dog hunt so they raised a lot of money for that society. Tony used to plant trees for the grouse all along the manistee river where he lived. Tony passed away, there is a plaque on a tree commemorating him, someday I hope to hunt that area and find his plaque, after reading his book, that would really mean something to me.

[Dave Noreen]

Back to the OPs original question, for many years I was looking for my retirement home in a small town in south eastern Washington, near my favorite Quail and Pheasant hunting. However, by the time retirement arrived, the reality was that with increasing age and family health issues, the Spokane area with a real airport and real hospitals was a much more viable option and put up with driving a ways to my favorite hunting.

[Andrew Sacco]

Ed thank you for the "invite" : ) I'll go wherever one invites me if I find the time. Dave, that's the issue I know we have to consider. I'm 56, and in ten years things change a lot. I realize an eight hour walk at 66+ is going to be tough, but if I'm close, a few short jaunts to keep the soul alive is probably wise. As my dog is now older and we have kids entering college, it's lucky I get out more than 3-4 hours at most "boots on the ground" time. I'm pretty tired after that. I guess we don't want to admit that time catches up, at least I don't.

[Ed Norman]

Andy,
I am 67 years old, a half day hunt suits me just fine if I have decent leather boots on. Wearing rubber boots a half day is hard on me, your right the next 10 years you will notice a difference. We have a lot of state land around here, the department of natural resources is constantly selling off small tracts of timber much to our delight.

[Tom Flanigan]

Montana!!!!!

I love Montana, especially the West Yellowstone area and the Madison River. But I have spent most of my time fly fishing the Bighorn River in the Ft. Smith area. It's a beautiful area steeped in the history of the Indian Wars.