Roll Crimping

[edgarspencer]

It's the little things that excite me the most lately.
I've always enjoyed roll crimping paper hulls, and I've used a variety of crimping tools. My favorite 12 gauge tool is a deluxe Bridgeport Gun Implement 4 pin crimper. The end result, on new Cheddite hulls is a crimp like the good old days.
My new adventure is roll crimping 28 gauge, so I bought a BPI roll tool, and was unimpressed. The roll was squared off, and uneven. The tool profile is entirely wrong, and it only has one rolling rod. Hopes of finding a good antique was short lived.
After a long search of threads on a variety of sites, I found chatter about a guy named Nick Ross. Nick obviously thought the old timers knew what made a tool right. He produces a beautiful FOUR pin tool.
The profile is 100% correct and his tool is nitride hardened (The Reloaders Network says it's case hardened) for long lasting durability. The BPI roll tool is crude and the working surface is far from what a machinist would consider acceptable.
At twice the price of BPI's tool ($49.95 and free shipping), the roll tool is hands down superior. Nothing less than a perfect roll on plastic and paper is the result, with no galling of once fired paper (cases trimmed to 2 1/2")
The Reloaders Network sells the tool in 10ga. thru .410.
I am not a paid spokesperson, just a satisfied guy with time on his hands.

[chris dawe]

I got a real nice 28 bore old style roll crimper here somewhere .... nice shiny brass.

I also found the square shouldered crimp with the BPI and wasn't impressed.

[Ken Hill]

I keep looking for a vintage roll crimped for 2" shells. I haven't found one yet. Maybe I need to go this route.

Ken

[edgarspencer]

I got a real nice 28 bore old style roll crimper here somewhere .... nice shiny brass.


You would, you bugger.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Edgar, I've got 40-50 RST blue paper hulls in 16 ga-yours if you want them.

[edgarspencer]

Edgar, I've got 40-50 RST blue paper hulls in 16 ga-yours if you want them.

I can't do them justice, Harold, until I can get one of Nick's tools in 16. I have a BPI and it galls the hell out of once fired hulls. Ugly ammo isn't as bad as ugly guns, but close.

[Matt Buckley]

I agree with your assessment Edgar of BPI's roll crimper as well. I didn't like the crimps I got out of it either so I purchased one from Precision Reloading and that one works much better.

[Eldon Goddard]

Edgar thanks for this post. I attempted to improve the bpi by adding three more roll pins on my 8 ga crimper but I believe the internal geometry is just not right as the crimps still dont turn out correct. I might have to order that Nick Ross one in 10 ga.

[edgarspencer]

Eldon, I also have a BPI 8ga. roll crimper, and, like you, am not happy with it’s results. The number of pins certainly helps getting the rolling started, but the coarse finish of their tool causes a falling of the edge, square or otherwise. I couldn’t be more pleased with the Nick Ross tool.
I like the collet fixture on your mill. Is it R8, or 5C ? Does it also rotate? I have an old Brown & Sharpe dividing head with collet holding but I can’t seem to locate correct (new) collets, and dividing head jobs take me twice as long because I have to keep refreshing my memory on rotation/ degree increments. The superspacer is too large, from OD to workpiece.

[Jay Oliver]

Not knowing this, I ordered a few from both BPI and Precision(depending on what was in stock). I haven't used them yet.

My 16 gauge one is from Precision. I am hoping to use it this week to make some roll crimp shells for my top action 16 gauge. If it doesn't work well I am going to order the one you recommend Edgar. That makes sense to me to get a quality tool that does it right.

Hopefully, I'll have some nice shells for my 16 when we meet up at Addieville.

[Daryl Corona]

Terry;

I'm not a roll crimper but find it a very satisfying to look at. For clarification, which roll crimping tool in your first picture is the preferred one and what is meant by the "pin" in the crimper?

Maybe if I live as long as you I'll take up roll crimping when I have some free time.

[Eldon Goddard]

It holds 5c collets. It doesn’t rotate but threads down and locks the collets in place. I have one for hex as well. The machinist at work showed me today we have a hardinge indexer for 5c as well.

[edgarspencer]

Terry;

I'm not a roll crimper but find it a very satisfying to look at. For clarification, which roll crimping tool in your first picture is the preferred one and what is meant by the "pin" in the crimper?

Maybe if I live as long as you I'll take up roll crimping when I have some free time.

The black one is the Nick Ross crimper. The pin (1 in BPI, 4 in Ross) is a round rod, about 3/32" , seated from the side on a tangent.
As old as me? I thought when I met you years ago, that I was in the company of the last living Civil War vet.

[Daryl Corona]

As old as me? I thought when I met you years ago, that I was in the company of the last living Civil War vet.

Not THAT Civil War but the one we are in now.:)

[Paul Harm]

I just went to the " reloaders network " web site and couldn't find the roll crimpers. Any help ?

[edgarspencer]

On the main page, click ‘Store’, then Shotgun, then the gauge you’re interested in.

[Matt Buckley]

Jay,
I have a 16 gauge precision reloading roll crimper and it works great.

[Paul Harm]

Thanks, I found it. Their crimps are a whole lot deeper than mine. I think pressures may raise with a crimp that deep. I could be wrong - maybe someone else can chime in.

[edgarspencer]

Thanks, I found it. Their crimps are a whole lot deeper than mine. I think pressures may raise with a crimp that deep. I could be wrong - maybe someone else can chime in.

Whose crimps? The one shown on Reloaders is the same picture in all gauges (12). Depth from the rollover to the overshot card is entirely variable, and controllable. It's possible to get greater rollover depth with plastic hulls, than paper, but new Cheddite hulls are very pliable. Hull length, wad selection and shot charge all affect the height of the total charge. If you have a favorite wad, and the charge is well below the top of the case, you can select a different wad to bring it up, or trim the hulls, or, if it's only marginally lowere, use two or even three overshot cards.
The top of the shot only needs to be about 1/8" below the rim of the hull, and the rollover will be 180 degree reversed.
With regard to pressure, there's lots of data out there. All I have sent to Precision have been lower than folded samples of like charges.

The four shells, below, are, left-right:
Factory Eley 2.5" 5/8oz.
Once fired Winchester paper Super-X hull, trimmed to 2.4", Fiocchi RO28 wad, 5/8oz.
New Cheddite hull, trimmed to 2.5", Fiocchi RO28 wad, 3/4oz
New Cheddite hull, trimmed to 2.5", BPI SP28 wad, 5/8 oz

The difference between the Cheddite 5/8oz load, and Winchester Paper 5/8oz load is because the Paper hulls had very high base wad. The Winchester Hull with the SP28 wad only allows 9/16oz when trimmed the same.

[charlie cleveland]

good looking roll crimps to me wish mine looked that good....charlie

[Paul Harm]

Maybe it's my old eyes, but the one RC shell appeared to have a real deep RC - maybe a 1/2". I could be wrong. I realize the depth can be controlled, I've roll crimped for years. It's been commented before on this forum that deep RCs raise the pressure. I don't know - was just stating something I had read before. Has anyone sent shells in to be tested with the only difference between them, the depth of a RC ? All mine are around the 1/8" roll over. I also think, for the money, the one from Precision Reloading works very well. Round or flat roll overs - both were used back in the day and one could order the style he wanted. So please don't think only the round roll over is historically correct.

[edgarspencer]

Paul, which picture are you referring to with a crimp that appears 1/2" deep?
Of mine, the shell on the left, of the picture of four, is a factory Eley, and it's a tiny bit deeper than mine, but it's a 9/16oz load. It isn't even 1/8", and none of mine are more than .090".
If you mean the one on the Reloaders Net page, that is a slug, with a card. I have no slug experience, and never paid them any attention, but every roll crimped slug I have seen is, as your "old eyes" suggest, about 1/2" (see picture of European 20ga slug)
My Bridgeport 12ga. crimper is convertible from rounded to square, but I leave it as round, as it seems to produce a cleaner crimp on once fired paper.

You may find this link informative.
https://wethearmed.com/reloading-and-handloading/shotshell-pressure-roll-crimp-vs-fold-crimp/

It doesn't speak specifically to your question regarding possible pressures of 'excessively deep' crimps, but my belief is the crimp only needs to adequately hold the over-shot card in place, not achieve a finished, loaded shell dimension. Plastic crimps won't hold a card permanently in place unless they do a 180, but once it does that, why go deeper?

[Paul Harm]

Edger, I agree with you on crimp depth. I found that my old RCers if you rotate the pins you can change from a flat top to a round top. I found that out by reading a reproduction Sears catalog for the early 1900s. I never took much stock about round or flat top crimps. If they're rolled over nice, that's all I care about. Nice photos.

[Jay Oliver]

I have placed an order with Reloaders Network for a 10, 12, 16 and 20 crimpers and some other accessories. The BPI one I had for 20 gauge just didn’t work(for me anyway) the 16 gauge from Precision is okay, but not great in my opinion. I have original hand crank crimpers for 10 and 12 which work well. It will be nice to have some quality tools for this.

However, I just bought a nice little English sxs 12 gauge 2” gun and the hand turn crimper will not crimp shells that short. The shortest I could go is 2 1/8” which work well in the gun and I can still put a nice roll crimp on them with my hand turn crimper. I am looking forward to real nice drill roll crimper so I'll be able to make 2" shells.

On that “new” 2-inch 12 gauge, I have been having so much fun with it. I had to make some shells for it and since there is not a lot of room they need to be roll crimped. Here are some I made with an original hand turn roll crimper.

The 50 on the left are new cut hulls and my 9 year old daughter likes to decorate the overshot cards. The upper right are once fired 2 1/8” shells that I have already shot once. And the bottom right are cut once fired 2 ½ RSTs. We had fun making these…

I am using a Gualdini light brush wad, 3/4oz of shot and 14.5 grains of Red Dot. I’ll likely drop down to 14 grains when I reload these at 2”(just so I can have a little more room in the case and make a real 2” shell). The RST 3/4oz 2” is going at 1100fps, so I think I will be around that velocity.

[edgarspencer]

The things we do to put a smile on our face. Rolling your own may not set the record for production, but they are nice to look at, yield lower pressures, and, what I like the most, is that it gives you more case capacity for powder, wad, and shot combinations. Why use up valuable hull length simply to get a folded crimp?
I started rolling many years ago, and stuck pretty much to 12 ga., mostly because the new tools on the market didn't give satisfactory results. The tool from the Reloadlers Network changed that.
2 1/2" 28ga was limited to 5/8 ounce, but roll crimping allowed for 3/4 ounce, and the performances, as tested by a fellow member on his chronograph, yields a nice 1175 fps load, with noticeably less recoil than a factory Fiocchi 2 3/4" load.

[allen newell]

Edgar, if I can find my grandfathers/dad's roll crimper, I'll pack it up and ship it to you free of charge.

[edgarspencer]

I'm not artistically gifted, so I get inexpensive self-inking stamps for the overshot cards.

[edgarspencer]

Edgar, if I can find my grandfathers/dad's roll crimper, I'll pack it up and ship it to you free of charge.

Thank you, Allen, but you should put it to use. Those shells will go well with your Vintagers outfit.

[Jay Oliver]

I like that stamp! That makes it quick and easy.

[Stan Hillis]

Edgar, is the stamp you use made up for one load specifically, or can you dial the numbers to get what you want?

Thanks, Stan

[edgarspencer]

Edgar, is the stamp you use made up for one load specifically, or can you dial the numbers to get what you want?

Thanks, Stan

Stan, I wish it was changeable, but they are single use stamps. They're under ten bucks at Rubberstamps.com

[Jim McKee]

Ordered 3 roll crimpers today from The Reloaders Network
10b; 12b & 16b
Thanks for the heads up!
Jim

[Stan Hillis]

Thanks, Edgar. I'll look at that site.

[Jay Oliver]

I got my tools from Reloader's Network. Just to test a few things out, I made 2 quick 16 gauge shells with a hand drill and their shell vice. It was easy and I like the results...

[Cory Rams]

I just ordered a $49.99 quad pin 10 gauge roll crimper off reloaders network from the “loads of bacon” YouTuber. There really only two other currently manufactured roll crimper I could find. A one pin from BPI and a 2 pin from precision reloading. Both for $28, plus shipping, plus tax. So for another $10, or less, I ordered the quad pin roller with zero tax charged and free shipping. Cant wait to try it out.

I cut these hills down and glued the shot cards in place. The cuts aren’t perfectly even. Is there enough hull left to roll crimp my shells below? Do I need to cut them perfectly even to get a good roll crimp? I hot glued the shot cards in place so I would assume it would make a mess. I will probably just shoot these up and start with fresh hulls to roll crimp. Just wondering how much hull I need to leave above the shot card for a proper roll crimp. Cant wait! I’m guessing with using this roll crimper I can load shells that will reliably feed and keep the shot inside my hull while cycling through a semi auto?

https://i.imgur.com/BVeWIhi.jpg

[edgarspencer]

You will find the Ross roll crimper to be an excellent tool. I've tried all the others, and have been rolling my own for years.
You will find the amount of hull above the overshot card, necessary for a good crimp varies a little, depending if the hulls are cut down or NEW and Skived. The difference is the thickness of the wall to be rolled. The rollover only needs to make a 180 degree turn, and any more than that is unnecessary, and may result in slight increase in pressure.
I leave about 3/16" of excess hull on 12ga. New Cheddite hulls, cutdown Federal hulls, and some New Paper Alcans I bought here.
My 28gauge hulls, with 3/4oz. of 7.5 or 8 shot, cut to 2 1/2", leave more with SG28-II wads than Fiocchi RO28 wads. I stick with hull lengths that match the chamber for best gas seal. I don't want to trim hulls to accommodate certain wads, so until I find a filler, I'd either have to use an extra couple overshot cards, or end up with an unnecessarily deep rollover.
I'm making it my rule of thumb is to find the correct wad for the shot/powder charge, and not vary the case length because of a compromise in components. Not easily done with the shortages we see today.
To your question about the cleanliness of the cut; yes, it matters. If you do a search, you'll find the hull trimmer jig I made, which yields a perfect edge.

[Cory Rams]

Thanks for the tips.

[Keith Doty]

My efforts with roll crimping plastic hulls resulted in very nice finished shells (after a bit of effort and experimenting) but after firing the mouth of the cases was a mess. It retained some inward "roll" and was pretty ugly, basically non-reloadable. Is this the norm or am I doing something very wrong?

[Keith Doty]

Dug these out of the trash.

[edgarspencer]

Your fired hulls appear they were skived. The plastic does retain some memory, and will still exhibit a slight inward roll, which needs to be conditioned before de/repriming and sizing. Several suppliers sell a tapered aluminum tool which does a good job at this. plunging the tool (in the drill press) and holding it for a few seconds, to generate heat, brings the hull back to a reloadable condition.
Paper hulls retain no memory so this isn't an issue.
The only plastic hulls I reload are trimmed to 2 1/2", so 2 3/4" once fired hulls loose the skived portion, and all the new plastic I load are either purchased, unskived, to length, or trimmed to 2 1/2" from new 2 3/4" purchased hulls.

[Keith Doty]

Skived indeed. I actually have one of those tools, just figured these were too far gone to fool with, didn't even try. Won't use skived hulls again, I thought that might make them EASIER to roll and result in less bulk at the roll. Most all of my hulls are unskived as I also load only 2 1/2". Appreciate the tip.

[Cory Rams]

Here is my second try with the 4 pin roller...

https://i.imgur.com/61DBxvj.jpg

I made a hull trimmer with a dowel and a utility knife blade so I had a nice even hull to start with.
The first one i forced the shell in when the roller was still cold and I wasn't spinning it fast enough. Just pushed the shell into the roller with my hand. I then tried a few of the uneven cut cases that were hot glued in. They crimped OK and I had a mess of melted hot glue to clean out of the roller.
I will have to trim my cases somewhere between the two lengths i tried next time.

The first case i tried is the one on the left. I bent it over pushing to hard when I didn't heat it up enough. I tried it again after I did a few and got it to crimp down an little more.

https://i.imgur.com/GKqhYG9.jpg


So will my groups change after crimping VS just gluing in a shot card with the exact same load? I also compressed my FG black powder pretty hard with the 2 brown federal hulls. How much increase of pressure, if any, will I have with a hard pack? My crimp also looks more quare like the 1 pin BPI roller. Is it my crimper or did I just push to hard when crimping?

[edgarspencer]

Cory, are you using a hand drill or drill press? It's essential that the hull be perfectly square with the crimping tool so that all four rollers contact at the same time. The old time hand rollers held the hull perfectly square to the hull also.
The only way I find consistency is using a hull vise, Drill press, with the quill stop set so that all hulls are rolled to the same depth.

[Cory Rams]

I don’t own a drill press. I used a cordless craftsman drill and held the shell with my other hand. I varied the speed since the only way to regulate the RPMs is with my finger on the trigger. I kept checking the crimp till it looked even to my eyes. I’ll have to start looking for a drill press.

[Jim McKee]

My 3 roll crimpers (10b; 12b & 16b) arrived from The Reloaders Network after an 8 day adventure with the postal service.

[Stan Hillis]

I use a MEC Supersizer as my hull vice, on my drill press. I get double duty out of it that way. Works perfectly.

[William Davis]

Nice looking loads hard to improve on them

My take on the job, It has to be square & drill press only way I know to get it right. Actually I use the mill & made a 4 hull fixture. Clamp it in the mills vise and move the table to each hull. All 4 one set up. Mills not necessary just faster production. Sometimes I think about using the quill depth stop, feel on the handle is sufficient.

Small used inexpensive drill press will do the job. Cheap Chinese vise works fine. For a fixture drill hull sized holes in hardwood then split it into a clamshell fixture 3 or 4 hulls. Gap let’s it tighten. vise does not need to be clamped to the presses table. Slide it hull to hull. That’s what I did before going to the mill.

Having said that I fold crimp my short 10s on the PW press until the case mouths fail then cut shorter & roll . Shorter loaded hulls go to 1 oz # 8 loads

William

[Cory Rams]

Nice looking loads hard to improve on them

My take on the job, It has to be square & drill press only way I know to get it right. Actually I use the mill & made a 4 hull fixture. Clamp it in the mills vise and move the table to each hull. All 4 one set up. Mills not necessary just faster production. Sometimes I think about using the quill depth stop, feel on the handle is sufficient.

Small used inexpensive drill press will do the job. Cheap Chinese vise works fine. For a fixture drill hull sized holes in hardwood then split it into a clamshell fixture 3 or 4 hulls. Gap let’s it tighten. vise does not need to be clamped to the presses table. Slide it hull to hull. That’s what I did before going to the mill.

Having said that I fold crimp my short 10s on the PW press until the case mouths fail then cut shorter & roll . Shorter loaded hulls go to 1 oz # 8 loads

William

Thanks, might get a drill vise. Don’t plan on reloading a lot of them. I only have approximately 25 hulls right now and I don’t plan on shooting up factory ammo just to obtain more. My plan is to load a dozen or so at a time to use for turkey and predator hunting. Don’t want to spend an arm and a leg on reloading equipment and supplies for something I don’t plan on shooting a lot. My guess is my gun will be shot one to three times a year for turkey hunting now that my load has been dialed in. I will eventually roll a bunch out for my browning gold 10 gauge but no hurry as I have a lot of factory loaded ammo for it. Kinda hard to obtain hulls when I only shoot once or twice at a turkey each year and no one has hulls available unless your willing to get gouged on gunbroker.

[William Davis]

Light volume you don’t need to multiple load like I do. Drill press is an advantage though. Drill press vise is useful for other things . Dedicated hull vise cost about the same and only useful on hulls

William

[Keith Doty]

I took Edger's advise, bought the 4 pin 12 ga. model from Reloader's Network. Works like a champ, considerably better than single or 2 pin type. Left a perfect rolled crimp, nicely rounded on top. These were new 2 3/4" federal hulls cut down to 2 1/2". Went for the clear plastic overshot cards, no stamp required as shot size is visible. All the larger shot I load is bismuth.

[Stan Hillis]

Cory, for light duty gun related stuff the drill presses at Harbor Freight are fine. I bought a bench style one from them over 25 years ago, back when you had to order stuff and they shipped it all out of CA, and it's never missed a lick. Plenty strong enough for bigger jobs, I occasionally find myself using it for drilling up to 1 1/4" holes in steel for farm repair and fabrication projects, although I am now in the market for a bigger, stronger, floor model for my farm shop.

[Nick Ross]

Hi Edgar, this is Nick Ross who makes the crimpers. Is there a way to private message you or email you. I can't find how to. Thank you!

[edgarspencer]

Hi Edgar, this is Nick Ross who makes the crimpers. Is there a way to private message you or email you. I can't find how to. Thank you!

Greetings Nick. I just shot you a PM. Look in the top, right corner, and you’ll seen the PM box. After you go there, you have lots of options from the menu on the left side of that page.
BTW, your tools have been a big hit and many of us have them.

[David Noble]

Nick, in any forum or thread you can also just left click the username of the person you want to PM and select "send a private message to ***** ".

[Bruce Parham]

Hi Edgar, this is Nick Ross who makes the crimpers....

Hi Nick,
I got one of your crimpers when this thread first started back in January and I must say thanks for a job well done Sir!
I use it to crimp black powder loads in Cheddite pre-primed paper hulls and it works perfect.

Bruce

[Keith Doty]

After Edgar pointed the way I ended up buying 4 of them. 10 ,16 ,20 , and 12. By far the best on the market, really nice results. I've got some barely used ones from BP and Precision for sale priced right!

[edgarspencer]

I've got some barely used ones from BP and Precision for sale priced right!

For those who don't want the best? If you find someone who wants them, I have a bunch they can have too.

[Nick Ross]

Thanks a lot! Much appreciated sir!

[Nick Ross]

After Edgar pointed the way I ended up buying 4 of them. 10 ,16 ,20 , and 12. By far the best on the market, really nice results. I've got some barely used ones from BP and Precision for sale priced right!

Wow, it's always awesome to hear these testimonials! Thanks! Really encouraging.

[Nick Ross]

Hi Nick,
I got one of your crimpers when this thread first started back in January and I must say thanks for a job well done Sir!
I use it to crimp black powder loads in Cheddite pre-primed paper hulls and it works perfect.

Bruce
Thanks so much! Makes it worth doing.

[Keith Doty]

Edgar, I figured I'd Ebay'em. You know, the PT Barnum theory. I'll bill them as "matched set, rare and hard to find", buyer pays actual shipping. It's either that or the scrap steel bin at the shop as I'll never use them again for sure. Never know, I might actually get my $$ back in hand! After the buyer fights with them a while and screws up some hulls Nick may get another sale.

[Nick Ross]

Hi Nick,
I got one of your crimpers when this thread first started back in January and I must say thanks for a job well done Sir!
I use it to crimp black powder loads in Cheddite pre-primed paper hulls and it works perfect.

Bruce
By the way, when I was working my design out I didn't have paper hulls to try, so to hear it works on them is awesome indeed.

[edgarspencer]

I’m gonna use my next Ross commission check to buy that AAHE 28 at Rock Island. :rotf::rotf::rotf:

Seriously, I’ve only recently “met” Nick, offline. All my blabbering on, was simply based on my opinion of the tool’s performance. My best ‘antique’ tool had 4 pins, and when I began using ‘that other guy’s’ single pin tools, it was one of those duh moments , which prompted me to search out a better tool.

Unknowingly, BP might be Nick’s best sales tool.

[Cory Rams]

I finally got around to trying out my four pin roller for the 2nd time yesterday. Last, and fist time trying the roll crimper was last spring using a hand held drill. What a pain with the hand held drill. Never got them perfect IMO until 5 to 10 minutes of forcing the hull into crimper long enough to heat it.

So, yesterday I loaded up 9, ten gauge, 3.5” hulls for spring turkey hunting. All I had left unfortunately. I’m about out on x10x and Sp10 wads..and federal hulls….so I better take my time on the trigger with them. I headed over to my buddies house to use his drill press. It took about 3 to five seconds each to make a nice even crimp. I’ll be on the hunt for a drill press now. Loaded up 2oz of #6 NPI shot(only shot I have on hand) and 39 grains of HS-6 along with a X10x and SP10. I patterned it in my Browning Gold National Wild turkey federation semi auto 10 gauge along with a code black turkey choke. The load had more pellet count on my turkey head and neck target at 45 yards than any factory ammo I’ve tried. Just wish I had some #5 shot to try. I have have always preferred the #5’s for longer shots and better knock down. I brushed on some clear nail polish over the shot cards to waterproof them.



https://i.imgur.com/Qx8chmj.jpg

[Milton C Starr]

BPI has nickel plated 5s instock I ordered a bag 2 days ago.

[Ben Safryn]

I headed over to my buddies house to use his drill press. It took about 3 to five seconds each to make a nice even crimp. I’ll be on the hunt for a drill press now.

I’m debating this drill press:

https://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/drills-drivers/drill-presses/8-in-5-speed-bench-drill-press-60238.html

[Mike Koneski]

I’m debating this drill press:

https://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/drills-drivers/drill-presses/8-in-5-speed-bench-drill-press-60238.html

I have that same drill press on my bench and it works great for roll crimping and other tasks in the loft.

[edgarspencer]

It's slowest speed is too fast for 8 & 10ga. Barely slow enough for 12ga.

[Andrew Sacco]

I’m debating this drill press:

https://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/drills-drivers/drill-presses/8-in-5-speed-bench-drill-press-60238.html

I have that press I bought when building my all electric homebrewing system. Except it was $69 a few years back. It ain't fancy, it's rather cheap, but I think it will work fine. I have not tried it on roll crimps but I'm not sure why a press would work better if the speeds are similar? Maybe I'm spinning too fast? Like I said, I just gave up. I'll try again tonight maybe on the press.

[Mike Koneski]

It's slowest speed is too fast for 8 & 10ga. Barely slow enough for 12ga.

I use it for roll crimping 10, 12 and .410 and it works fine.

[Cory Rams]

I’ll have check and see what kind of press I used the other day next trip over.

[Stan Hoover]

It's slowest speed is too fast for 8 & 10ga. Barely slow enough for 12ga.

Edgar,
Can you share what speeds you would recommend??

I received my first roll crimp tools last week (16 & 20 ga), and I did a few 20 gauge with decent results but not great. Let's say, I will not be showing them off to you guys who are accomplished rollcrimpers:rotf:

Thanks for all the good tips by everyone.
Stan

[Andrew Sacco]

I used my press last night, I think the slowest speed is around 1100 rpm. I did better than by hand, but a bit uneven and choppy. Of course these were previously 8pt crimped hulls so that's not ideal to begin with.

[Milton C Starr]

Ive had alittle luck roll crimping I just started a few months ago. I think roll crimping is one of those things everyone has their own tips and tricks that works best for them. I read the 16 ga reloaders say they get the best results 60-120rpms, but you're not going to find a drill press that slow most likely. I have come up with a few ideas to get a better roll but I havnt tested them yet.

[Stan Hoover]

Thanks for that info Milton,
I’m in search of an older drill press as we speak, have wanted to buy a general purpose drill press for my small shop for awhile now.
I’m looking for a good one��, if you know of one, let me know.
Stan

[edgarspencer]

Edgar,
Can you share what speeds you would recommend??

Stan, Given that the old hand crank tools were in use for paper hulls, I run my Rockwell press at 300 rpm. I'm using Nick Ross tools which have more pins than the common ones sold by either BP or precision.
The key to roll crimping plastic hulls is A) start with a smooth case mouth. If you're roll crimping 2 3/4" hulls, you already have enough extra to trim off, because the roll uses less than the star crimp. B) Heat. Start with a light pressure on the hull and withing a few seconds you'll feel it begin to roll, because the plastic is more pliable when warmed up by friction. Once its begining to roll, give it more pressure, and don't delay, because you can soften the plastic too much, and get crappy results.
I roll my 8ga hulls at a much slower speed, because the tool has six pins. I do them in either my Bridgeport with the back gears engaged.(I'm not suggesting you go out and buy a 2000lb milling machine) Anything more than 150-200 rpm and the tool heats up and scars the outside diameter of the hull.
Be aware of the tool temperature. I load up a tray with 25 or 50 hulls at a time, but don't roll all at one shot because the tool gets too hot. Rolling paper (I roll 12,16 & 20 paper also) heat doesn't seem to hurt the hulls but paper likes the slowest speed, or it scars, almost tears, the lip.
I've had many conversations with Nick Ross, and I will say, he puts a great deal of thought into his tools. To the extent, he is considering two different tools for 8 ga. hulls because of the hull thickness difference between Winchester and Remington industrial hulls. The 'smoothness' of the inside diameter of the finished roll is as important as the outside, and the internal tool profile takes hull thickness into account.
Cheddite paper hulls are thinner than Federals, and roll well with Ross tools, but I roll the Federal hulls in and old Deluxe Bridgeport Implement Co hand cranked roller.

[Milton C Starr]

Im thinking perhaps a easy way to do it is when roll crimping to just pop the driven pulley off and find something like one of these wheels and hand turn it. I noticed with my PR crimper it doesnt like any sort of lubrication in fact it wont even begin to crimp but the BPI seems to work either way. The above green hulls are 8 gauge Remingtons I did with the BPI cant remember if I used the drill press or hand drill. I have rolled crimped one old paper hull maybe from the 1970s with the BPI crimper with a hand drill. It worked but the old paper and the jagged way I cut the old crimp didnt look the best. I ordered some expensive custom paper hulls last week I might try something different crimping those they are to expensive to mess up haha.

If you wanted to get real simple id buy a hand crank drill attach it to a drill guide and do it that way. Really when you break it down you just need something that can hold a 1/2" chuck horizontally stable at a slow speed, I think anyway you could achieve that with a hand crank would probably work best. Or if these are just going to be used in a sxs or any break open gun run down to the local Dollar General and buy a hot glue gun or tube of duco cement. It really depends if you care how pretty they look you get better case mouth life using a glued in overshot card. Me personally I dont care as I get rid of them after 1 firing as I like my ammo to look pretty :rotf:

[Stan Hoover]

Thanks Edgar for your thorough explanation of how you do roll crimping and all the helpful tips.

And thanks to you also Milt, I appreciate all the knowledge I can pick up on this great forum.

As they say, Life is to short to learn only from your own mistakes, learning from other peoples mistakes is a plus:)

Thanks to this thread, the roll crimpers that I did buy are the ones produced by Nick Ross, so now the search for a good press will start. I love when I have an excuse to buy something that I've been wanting for a while.

Thanks again,
Stan

[edgarspencer]

When I was old enough to take a gun out by myself, the only shotshells were paper, and loading paper hulls was initially my attempt to recreate the smell and nostalgia. I began rolling my own when I found a nice old hand roller. Since then I learned there's more to it, but, like Milton, I like my shells to look nice too.
Apart from the appearance, rolling gives advantages in lower pressures for old guns.
I've pattern tested lots of these, and found that overshot cards need to as thin as practical in order not to skew the pattern. or, doughnut hole them.
Another detail of importance is that the roll be physically uniform all the way around. If not, the mouth opens up first at the point of least resistance, and the pattern is skewed. The depth of the roll does not need to be any more than what it takes to do a complete 180 degree turn. More, and it builds pressure opening up the mouth; Less, and there's the risk the loaded shell will pop the card loose and spill the shot. Plastic hulls need reconditioning after fired. Reloaded paper hulls are never as pretty as they were new.
All I need now is time to get out and empty a mess of these shells.

[Ben Safryn]

Anyone using a “portable drill press” or “drill guide” versus a dedicated drill press? Ie one that you use a hand held drill in? Like one of these? How is your experience with them?

https://www.amazon.com/Milescraft-1318-DrillMate-Drill-Guide/dp/B014A1Z92I/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=I5RQADYA0E6Z&keywords=portable+drill+press&qid=1648653097&sprefix=portable+drill%2Caps%2C146&sr=8-3

https://www.amazon.com/BEAMNOVA-Benchtop-Industrial-Holder-Workbench/dp/B089N9SXWR/ref=mp_s_a_1_17?crid=I5RQADYA0E6Z&keywords=portable+drill+press&qid=1648653155&sprefix=portable+drill%2Caps%2C146&sr=8-17

[Mike Koneski]

One thing I was going to add was touched on by Edgar, allow the tool/hull to warm up before applying the pressure to work in the roll crimp. That is key. The other is the condition of the hull mouth. Can't have any fold crimp remnants left over or the roll will be very ugly. That never happened to me, but I did read about it once! :whistle: :eek:

[edgarspencer]

Anyone using a “portable drill press” or “drill guide” versus a dedicated drill press? Ie one that you use a hand held drill in? Like one of these? How is your experience with them?

https://www.amazon.com/Milescraft-1318-DrillMate-Drill-Guide/dp/B014A1Z92I/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=I5RQADYA0E6Z&keywords=portable+drill+press&qid=1648653097&sprefix=portable+drill%2Caps%2C146&sr=8-3

https://www.amazon.com/BEAMNOVA-Benchtop-Industrial-Holder-Workbench/dp/B089N9SXWR/ref=mp_s_a_1_17?crid=I5RQADYA0E6Z&keywords=portable+drill+press&qid=1648653155&sprefix=portable+drill%2Caps%2C146&sr=8-17

Honestly, I've thought of those devices also. One good thing about them, is that a corded hand drill has more low speed torque than one of the inexpensive mini bench drill presses. You can slow the hand drill down to a desired speed, whereas the mini drill presses only go down to about 800-1000rpm, and don't have the torque when rolling the larger, i.e. 8,10 and even 12ga hulls. A friend bought a mini to roll 10ga and it stalls it or the belt slips (can't remember which he said).
Another good thing about the devices that hold your hand drill aside from the low entry cost, is they take up very little space on the loading bench. In fact, I think I just talked myself into one.

[Ben Safryn]

In fact, I think I just talked myself into one.

Think you talked me into one as well.

And PS…I see you are in Bloomfield. I work in Bloomfield, live in West Hartford. Maybe I’ll see you around at the local clubs!

[Milton C Starr]

Honestly, I've thought of those devices also. One good thing about them, is that a corded hand drill has more low speed torque than one of the inexpensive mini bench drill presses. You can slow the hand drill down to a desired speed, whereas the mini drill presses only go down to about 800-1000rpm, and don't have the torque when rolling the larger, i.e. 8,10 and even 12ga hulls. A friend bought a mini to roll 10ga and it stalls it or the belt slips (can't remember which he said).
Another good thing about the devices that hold your hand drill aside from the low entry cost, is they take up very little space on the loading bench. In fact, I think I just talked myself into one.

I have seen this too about the mini press not having the torque, I watched a video of a guy using one to roll crimp and it would keep stopping the motor or the belt would slip.

The problem I could see with that particular guide is its 3/8"s. My PR roll crimper is 3/8s so when I tried to use it in a hand drill the chuck had no room to actually tighten down on it so it would just spin, having a 1/2" press fixed that though.

My idea was to get one of those guides and attach a old style hand crank drill to it like one of these https://www.amazon.com/hand-crank-drill/s?k=hand+crank+drill seems like you would basically have something that works like a old school roll crimper but vertically and you could change out crimp heads and do any gauge.

[Mike Koneski]

The press I have from Tractor Supply will run at 760 RPM on the low speed. I haven’t had it bog down/stall on my 10 or 12g hulls.

[Cory Rams]

Third time trying my four pin roll crimper last night. Loaded up four to try with 1 5/8oz #5 shot, a nitro card, and a 100 grains of FG. Left the hulls longer this time. Figured I’d leave some extra hull length in case I have any cracking around the crimp area after the shot I have some extra to work with. I’ll seal them up with a little clear nail polish and try them out next week.

https://i.imgur.com/0LgKhjc.jpg

Sealed and numbered….


https://i.imgur.com/dgwkS4I.jpg

[Mike Koneski]

So that is clear nail polish inside your hull that looks like wad protruding above your OS card?

[Cory Rams]

No wad used. My roll crimp is folded all thr way down to the OS card.


I just lightly brush the outer edge where the OS card and roll crimp meet to waterproof them. Then I brush an extremely light coat over the center of the OS card to completely seal it. Figure it will help keeping moisture and rain out if the weather doesn’t cooperate out in the turkey woods. Never tested it in wet conditions yet but used my #6 loads brushed the same way to collect a double bearded Gobbler last year. I didn’t seal them all the way to the top of hull if that’s what you were asking. I think the flash of my camera made the inside of my hull crimps look shiny. Photo without the flash still looks a bit shiny….

https://i.imgur.com/g5JBvAa.jpg

I used a little vaseline in roll pin crimper. Could be shiny yet from the lube even though I wiped it out, and, or, the hull might have shined up from the friction from the crimp process im guessing.

[Keith Doty]

Ben, I tried a couple of the mini drill presses, both now reside in a scrap metal bin. I went with a hand drill and ended up making a drill guide with a 1/2" Jacobs chuck and stops on both rails. Got the consistent finished length and pressure on OSC I wanted as well as the crimp consistently "square" to the hull. Finished shells are very uniform and look correct. My power tool is a 1/2" drill/driver and I run it on the driver setting. Tons of torque and doesn't want to burn or melt the hulls. I think all that are successful with this has gotten there by trial and error! If it works good it IS good.

[Ben Safryn]

I just lightly brush the outer edge where the OS card and roll crimp meet to waterproof them. Then I brush an extremely light coat over the center of the OS card to completely seal it. Figure it will help keeping moisture and rain out if the weather doesn’t cooperate out in the turkey woods. Never tested it in wet conditions yet but used my #6 loads brushed the same way to collect a double bearded Gobbler last year. I didn’t seal them all the way to the top of hull if that’s what you were asking. I think the flash of my camera made the inside of my hull crimps look shiny. Photo without the flash still looks a bit shiny….

https://i.imgur.com/g5JBvAa.jpg

I used a little vaseline in roll pin crimper. Could be shiny yet from the lube even though I wiped it out, and, or, the hull might have shined up from the friction from the crimp process im guessing.

This is by no means a critique, but rather an honest question(s): how much distance is between the finished top of your hull wall where the crimp rolls to the OS card? And is that much of a gap OK? Any performance issue? Or does that mean rather you should be adding filler to minimizes that gap? Again, honest question, because of that gap is OK, then why would I bother with a filler?

[Cory Rams]

I don’t have the shells with me to measure but I would say there is a little less than a half inch of Measurement on the fold crimp. I was pondering the same question on how much is too much. I’m guessing it makes no difference in patterning. I can tell you it makes zero difference in fitting into my SxS. My loaded shell is still over a half inch short of my 2 & 7/8” chamber length. I could have trimmed my shell down further to have less so my Extra hull length would be closer to the lead shot payload but figured I’d try it like this and give it a try. I would guess if loading in something other than a SxS or single shot there could be cycling issues because the crimp is out far enough that it’s not supported by the payload of lead shot. I’m curious myself so that’s a good question. I have seen slugs with a lot deeper roll crimps then my loads. I would say it might increase the pressure a little? My powder charge is less than than a square load and loaded with FG so I’m not worried about a pressure spike. Hopefully someone will chime in and let me know if I did something wrong.

[Nick Ross]

Hey guys, sorry I haven't been on in a while. I've seen some questions on the thread about crimping. When roll crimping with my crimper I recommend using some lube like a small drop of oil to the outside mouth of the case or even a small amount of vaseline dabbed in the crimper itself with a q-tip. That's the way I test them all and the way I crimp my shells. I don't recommend dry crimping. As far as rpm I see people using different rpm with success, but I actually use the same rpm for all gauges on the drill press I use to spot check crimpers as I make them. I can't check every crimper because when I make them I make them many at a time, but I hold tolerance close to keep them all as close to the same as possible. The rpm on the drill press I use isn't clearly marked so I just ordered a laser tachometer to check it and will get back with you as soon as I get the number. I've been wanting to know the exact rpm myself for a while. Your best rpm may be different though because I also don't have every hull out there to test. I appreciate all of you who use my tools. I would love to hear about what you use your loads for and any game taken with them. I try to make the best tools I can and every one is made 100% by myself. Down to taking crimpers home and spending hours deburring each by hand under a lighted magnifying lamp. Thanks again!

[Stan Hillis]

I'm super glad to learn of your roll crimpers, Nick. This is just another example of the value of fine forums like this one. Information is so easily shared and garnered.

I, too, searched for really good crimpers, not knowing of yours. A hunting friend from Savannah who is well versed in French shotgunning things gave me a .410 roll crimper that is made in France. It is finely made and does a great job, also. It is the only gauge made by them that I have, and yours will be so much more easily obtained. Thanks for offering them, and thanks Edgar for the heads up!

[Nick Ross]

The rpm I use on the press clocked at 480. When spot checking crimpers on hulls I actually use that same setting from .410 all the way to 8 gauge. You may need a different one again. The main thing I would stress is use lube. I use tap magic when making and checking crimpers simply because I'm in a machine shop and it's there. Gun oil would work too. A small drop will do. I dab of Vasoline from a q-tip inside the crimper will last for a few shells before needing to add more. By the way if you like watching youtube videos Jeff of Taofledermaus uses my crimper exclusively. Look up the "Tsar Bomba" slug video he put up a year or so ago.

[Cory Rams]

Picked this vintage press up today for a whopping $9! The matching vintage craftsman drill was laying next to it for another $3. I cleaned both up inside and out. The press is smooth and depending how lightly I squeeze the drill trigger it barely spins to full throttle completely pressed. My plan is to put a hose clamp or zip tie around the drill handle and trigger. I’ll tighten the clamp, or tie, till I get the RMP I prefer. It does have a trigger lock. I’ll have to see if it spins to fast locked into position first. I’ll then plug the cord into a power strip so I can turn the power on and off with a flip of a switch. Hopefully the drill holds up for a while. I took it completely apart to lube and clean. If the drill eventually gives up its ghost I have a few corded and cordless drills laying around. If it works it will save me calling my buddy to make arrangements to use his and driving 8 blocks to use his drill press along with my 4 pin roller. I only load a couple dozen 10 gauge a year at most so I would assume it will last a long time. I will have to see if I can find some old directions to make sure I have it mounted correctly and to make sire I’m not missing any parts.

https://i.imgur.com/V2CL2yk.jpg

[Cory Rams]

I played with the drill enough now that the points are not catching properly. It seems to vary its speeds up and down by itself and then shut off. I’ll stick one of my modern drills in the press for the time being.

[Keith Doty]

A "Wall Hanger", will look great on the wall in the garage! But I think you did well on the press. I was looking for something similar a while back and found mostly import junk. Certainly nothing as well built as that old Craftsman. That thing will wear out a couple of drills and still be kickin'.

[Cory Rams]

I almost passed on the drill to begin with but grabbed it because it was laying next to the press. Your right about that press. It’s built like a tank. Figured it will outlast me. I looked at some of modern presses that accept a drill. They look like dollar store imports that would probably not make it through a session of crimping before it failed.

[edgarspencer]

Corey, I can't remember if you said, but you may be better off with a newer drill if you're rolling plastic hulls. Speed helps get the case lip warm for a nice turnover, and as well as they were made, the older corded drills don't turn up all too fast.

[Cory Rams]

Yep, I’m doing plastic hulls. Been reloading modern 2 7/8” RST spent hulls for my Charles Daly SxS 10 gauge and also 3.5” 10 gauge for my browning gold Turkey federation 10 gauge with modern spent 3.5” Winchester and federal plastic hulls. . Appreciate the tip. Was pulling my hair out to get the drill working. Won’t sweat it now. I have a newer craftsman I bought about 4/5 years ago that’s corded. Also have a cordless craftsman. The corded one will go in place of it. It has a good amount of torque.

[Stan Hillis]

Something you might consider is an added foot switch for the rig. The drill's cord plugs into it, and the switch's cord plugs into the outlet, via a piggyback plug. Works great for drill presses where you are having to hold something with one hand and work the drill press handle with the other. I find it speeds things up so that the crimper doesn't cool down much between shells, even in my old cold shop.

I put one on my bench top drill press at least 25 years ago and have never unhooked it. Very nice to have. Similar to this one:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08LN9F6JV/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?_encoding=UTF8&aaxitk=80c96e30be92b559b6f151af5e1d99ef&content-id=amzn1.sym.53aae2ac-0129-49a5-9c09-6530a9e11786%3Aamzn1.sym.53aae2ac-0129-49a5-9c09-6530a9e11786&hsa_cr_id=4439364670901&pd_rd_plhdr=t&pd_rd_r=95812ecf-8b8b-4b4a-94ea-9f9b6d50638f&pd_rd_w=Mz8ai&pd_rd_wg=kd3kE&qid=1662463224&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_lsi4d_asin_0_title&sr=1-1-a094db1c-5033-42c6-82a2-587d01f975e8

[Cory Rams]

I installed a craftsman drill I bought new about five or six years ago. I put a zip tie around it and the back of the brace that adjusts the angle. Its pretty solid now. I’ll leave the drill in it permanently. I have three cordless drills to keep my other projects busy. Still have to get a foot pedal or some type of switch.

https://i.imgur.com/ynUWUWO.jpg

[Keith Doty]

What did a man do before duct tape and tiewraps? (baling wire and chewing gum?)

[charlie cleveland]

that's a neat set up....charlie

[Cory Rams]

The drill press works great! I loaded up ten, 3 1/2 inch, 10 gauge yesterday. I have to say the drill spins too fast of RPMs with the zip tie tightened all the way down on the Trigger. I think I melted some of the crimp folds. Next time around I won’t pull the zip tie as tight to slow the RPMs down a bit. I also didn’t smooth out the crimp folds with a heat gun before I cut them so they don’t look as pretty as my other crimps. I just made a few to go out and test and sight in the new Holosun green dot I mounted on my Browning gold 10 gauge so they didn’t have to be pretty. I’ll take my time on round two with them. Loaded up 8 with 2oz of number 5 copper plated lead and 2 with 2oz of lead #2’s along with 36 grains of HS-6. I traded for some shot that was supposed to be number fives and the guy who sent it to me sent me a number two lead shot instead. I don’t know what I want I will end up using the number twos for since I can’t use them for turkey hunting here in Wisconsin. Guess maybe for crows and coyotes?

https://i.imgur.com/pNbRaTN.jpg

[Aaron Beck]

I have found i can easily do plastic crimps at 1200 rpm with no vise if i put a dap of butchers wax in the tool. The wax makes it much easier as it is grabby without and wants to torque the thin plastic hulls. Anything slower works but feels glacial now. Perhaps this will help someone. I dont have experience with paper it may require slower speeds

[Cory Rams]

I use Vaseline inside my four pin roll crimper. I’ve tried doing it with a power drill and holding a shell in my other hand. After about a five minute try or so with each one and getting it to crimp I’ll pass. My hands are cramped up and in pain and felt like they went through a war! Best nine bucks ever spent I just gotta slow my drill down. Takes all the couple seconds to do a crimp with the press. At the higher RPMs they just get hot too quick and the crimp will melt. Slowed down a little will get them perfect.

[Milton C Starr]

I have used mica and it seems to work.
I dont remember the rpm my press is set at I believe around 650.
I have found a 200 rpm press for under $400 that would be interesting to try.
You can technically buy a hand crank press and would have like a traditional roll crimper but vertical.

[Cory Rams]

I found a vintage AMI Co. “open all” today for $3 at the “re store” shop. I figured it was gonna be close for whether the end grip was going to grab 10 gauge hulls or not. It looks like it was about an inch and diameter in the front. Anywhere near a 10 gauge hull right now but a quarter. I googled the size it’s .955”. Just a hair too big in the front to grab a quarter but in the middle of the handle I can grab anything I might have to modify that nice vintage antique grab all and grind just hair off of each side the “pliers looking” ends so it will grip a .779 hull with authority. Figured that would sure save my hands from cramping while I’m trying to keep a hull from spinning. I’m sure I could grab the outside of the brass lip with it and probably be fine but I’d rather grab the plastic hull.

https://i.imgur.com/UNYiMb6.jpg

Figure I can grab a hull, as is, in the middle

https://i.imgur.com/UZ2gNBw.jpeg

Or maybe I’ll grind just a little bit off of each “pincher tip” so it will grab a 10 gauge hull in the front circle with some authority.

https://i.imgur.com/lmtOPFq.jpg

You can see perfectly flush a quarter will just drop through it and that measures .955 inch. I need to get it below .779” obviously for a 10 gauge hull. I would guess if I grind off each of the pinching ends a little I’ll get there.


I found some plastic learning chips at the dollar store the other day. 75 of them for a buck and a quarter. They sure work for the 10 gauge. I figured it’ll be a little bit more durable than a cardboard, overshot card and definitely waterproof. I turned them around and gave them a couple of really hard taps on my hand and buffer did not come out so they sealed up pretty good. I can hear shot rattle so they’re not as tight as it would be if I use the cardboard overshot card but I’m sure I probably could put cardboard underneath the plastic clear shot card and have a nice waterproof load for hunting.

https://i.imgur.com/boCzJ5p.jpg

Here’s a couple I did in black powder the other day too next to a factory RST shell. I also added a plastic shot cuff and some buffer to see if I can tighten up my old standby load.

https://i.imgur.com/qdMQ2z7.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/9ep2nJU.jpeg

[Pete Lester]

Be sure to pattern test the shells with those plastic chips as an overshot card. It doesn't take much of anything over the shot to create a spreader load. I found a thin nitro card, .0125, over the shot and under a fold crimp will reduce a pattern by as much as 30% at 40 yards.

[Cory Rams]

Will do I think I’m also gonna load some up today with the hulls cut a little longer so I put a nitro card between the charge and plastic shot cup. Then I might try a card board OS card over the top.


It’s my normal 100 grain charge of FG with 1 5/8 oz of shot I use for turkey. Instead of using a half-inch nitro card I eliminated it and added a BPI tough wad that I slit all four pedals down to the base and then I trimmed the wad down to 1.458 inches. I also removed about 13 grains of shot and added back in 13 grains of original buffer just trying to tighten up my load pattern because I’m not really impressed with anything I’ve gotten so far tight enough for what I would call a good turkey hunting load past 25 yards.
I will pattern halfway decent 40 yards but I figured a plastic shot. Cuff and buffer might be the answer.

I don’t have a way to fold crimp so roll crimping is my only option currently.

I’ll be curious to see which one patterns better. From what I’ve read those plastic OS cards are supposed to shatter when firing and just blow out of the way I guess I’ll find out the pattern board will tell me all.

[Cory Rams]

Got a little fancy with my load today. I loaded up a few to try with my normal hundred grain charge of FG and a 15/8oz load. Instead of using a half inch nitro card. I ended up using an 8th inch thick nitro card that I split down from a quarter inch nitro card. I didn’t use the BPI tough wad cut down to 1.458 inches and slit all four pedals to the base. Took about eight #5 pellets out and added the weight back in with BPI original buffer. He did put a thin piece of question wide inside the shot cup and then I added one to the top of it to keep the buffer from coming out. I also put a cardboard over the top and roll crimped it. Hopefully it tightens up my load with the buffer and plastic shot cup. Anyways, here’s a picture of my role crimps they turned out really nice. Using Winchester hulls i’m guessing a rebranded Chedite. They are super soft and started bulging just above the brass so I have to watch it when I roll crimp them. Loaded up at 3 1/2 inch the same hall a half an hour later and basically crushed the top of the hall so I had to pull it and start over with a fresh hull. Never had that happen before roll crimping I’m wondering if I just didn’t have enough lube in my four pin roller???

https://i.imgur.com/XSnMb2N.jpg