Parker case colors

[John Bastiani]

Is there any one person or persons who can positively identify original case colors on Parkers? I have found that of all the case colored guns that Parkers seem to be the hardest to tell if the case colors are original.

[Dean Romig]

Please show us some pictures of the gun you’re wondering about.

Often times the condition of the entire gun when the originality of case colors may be in question gives us a better idea.





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[Reggie Bishop]

I was told a long time ago that you can spot counterfeit $100 dollar bills by studying originals. If you spend time and effort looking at the originals the counterfeit bills just jump out at you. I think that is pretty true with original Parkers or anything else really. Study the originals and the non-originals jump out at you. My opinion only.

[Dean Romig]

That’s true Reggie but a lot easier to do on Trojan through G grades but when you get up into the more highly engraved guns it becomes more difficult. But still, to the practiced eye it can be done.





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[John Bastiani]

Please show us some pictures of the gun you’re wondering about.

Often times the condition of the entire gun when the originality of case colors may be in question gives us a better idea.





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I'm not looking at any particular gun but am looking for somebody that knows what they are looking at when it comes to original case colors on Parkers. There seem to be very few out there that can distinguish between original guns and one that have been redone and used again and show wear. In one of my Parker books the author shows an original gun and one recased by Oscar Gaddy. I would bet that several would call the Gaddy gun original and I'm probably one of them. Parkers seem to be harder to tell if the colors are original then say Winchester or LC Smith. I just was wondering if there are any go to guys out there that can look at the colors and not hesitate and give an answer to originality. I'm just trying to be cautious before I make an expensive purchase in the future.

[Dean Romig]

John, I don't believe there is anybody who can say for certain, basing their reputation on their evaluation of the case colors on a particular Parker, whether the case colors are original or redone, unless it is blatantly obvious because of their non-conformity that they are not original.

There are certainly expert collectors in the PGCA who can nail it 99% of the time and I would certainly accept their assessment 99% of the time.

Best thing to do when the originality of a Parker's case colors is in question is to post pictures on this forum and ask for candid opinions from those in the know.






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[Alfred Greeson]

What he said......from following this forum for some time, I am afraid the guy you seek has passed on but there are those who would never call themselves experts but they would get my bet every time. If you could look back, I know this has been a subject before on this forum and characteristics of the appearance of original case colors are discussed.

[Dean Romig]

Charlie Price was such an expert. He wrote an article titled Parker Case Colors and it was published in Parker Pages Vol. 22, Issue 1, page 4. The article includes ome excellent color pictures.





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[Bruce Day]

Small bore Case colors

[Bruce Day]

And 12 ga.

[John Bastiani]

Charlie Price was such an expert. He wrote an article titled Parker Case Colors and it was published in Parker Pages Vol. 22, Issue 1, page 4. The article includes ome excellent color pictures.





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Is there anyway to get a copy of this article?

[Dean Romig]

Is there anyway to get a copy of this article?

Send a PM to James Hall requesting that issue.
He is our keeper of extra issues and overruns of Parker Pages.

There will be a small nominal fee.





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[Mike McKinney]

John,
There are multiple ways to get the article, one would be to PM Jimmy Hall and see if he has an issue he can sell you, another is buy the Parker Pages Archive which is on either thumb drive or CD, in that case send $55 which includes shipping to me, Mike McKinney, 18 Nottingham Road, Maggie Valley, NC 28751, with that you would have all info from Parker Pages through 2019.

[Dean Romig]

Right Mike and that's 25 years of Parker Pages.

Disclaimer: The Parker Pages Digital Archive is only available to Annual and Life PGCA Members.





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[Tom Jay]

Original case color (1887)

[keavin nelson]

On a related quest, other than Turnbull (some would debate that) are there others out there that produce colors that replicate the original?

[John Bastiani]

I emailed Mr. Hall yesterday about getting the Volume 22 issue 1 Parker pages and the Spring 2008 issue as well. I had previously emailed him about the Spring 2008 issue and never got a response.

[John Bastiani]

On a related quest, other than Turnbull (some would debate that) are there others out there that produce colors that replicate the original?

I wish there was nobody that could replicate Parker colors as it has led to some guns being sold as original cased guns when they are not. I had a buddy who bought what was advertised as an original BHE(80 to 85% case) from a known dealer. When he got ready to sell the gun 30 years later he found that the gun had been recased. It was almost impossible to tell from some originals we looked at. He ended up showing the gun to some guys from the Parker Collectors display at a show a few years ago at OGCA(I believe) and they informed him that the gun had been re-cased. It was a around a 1915 gun from what I remember and had a weep hole which it shouldn't have had for that era. I believe thats how the gentleman determined the gun had been redone. Also: Mr. Turnbull does excellent work and is honest in letting people know if he has redone a gun.

[Reggie Bishop]

Why would a weep hole indicate case colors had been re-done? Or did they think since the barrels had been re-finished the entire gun had likely been? These old guns have for the most part all been worked on to some extent. A lot of them are sold as "originals" but that really depends on how a person defines that word. My advice is don't buy them as investments, buy them because you love them despite what may or may not have been done to them in the last 100 years.

Having said that, I do like to find them as close to "original" as possible.

[Dean Romig]

Reggie - Redone barrels will often cause the whole gun to require very close examination.

Collect them because we love them and admire them yes, but nobody wants to get duped at the time of purchase only to find out years later that they have no hope of ever selling the gun at even close to the purchase price. We're all well aware that the market in these guns has taken a temporary (hopeful) dip but to be taken to the cleaner by an unscrupulous seller is just pretty darn hard to deal with.





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[Reggie Bishop]

Oh I agree totally when a seller misrepresents a gun.

[keavin nelson]

I wish there was nobody that could replicate Parker colors as it has led to some guns being sold as original cased guns when they are not. I had a buddy who bought what was advertised as an original BHE(80 to 85% case) from a known dealer. When he got ready to sell the gun 30 years later he found that the gun had been recased. It was almost impossible to tell from some originals we looked at. He ended up showing the gun to some guys from the Parker Collectors display at a show a few years ago at OGCA(I believe) and they informed him that the gun had been re-cased. It was a around a 1915 gun from what I remember and had a weep hole which it shouldn't have had for that era. I believe thats how the gentleman determined the gun had been redone. Also: Mr. Turnbull does excellent work and is honest in letting people know if he has redone a gun.

I am not sure "weep" holes indicate that it had been re-cased. Barrels are often redone when nothing else is for any number of reasons. And it is easier to redo barrels than recase a gun. I wasn't inferring that Turnbull doesn't do good work, only that I have had folks question how close his colors are to original (which they will never be).

[Bruce Day]

You get a dent in the barrel , raise the dent and you may have to reblue the barrels. Get some blood on the barrels, then rust , same thing.

Some people just have to see shiny blue black barrels.

Look for wear on the standing breach face. Look for sharp engraving . Worn checkering. Even I can do that !

[Brian Dudley]

If you see enough original guns, you just know what to look for.
And there are plenty of very good examples of high condition guns documented in the various writings/books about Parkers. If those are studied, one will learn all they need to know and what to look for.

[John Dallas]

I took a very high condition AHE to Brad B, and as he looked at the gun, he called the man who did his barrrel refinishing out to look at the gun, and said "This is what an original gun looks like. That's what we're trying to recreate on the barrels"

[Stan Hillis]

If I get duped by someone representing a gun as original, when it is not, I get mad at one person and only one. Me, for not educating myself enough before I dropped the big bucks.

A lying dealer is one thing. A dealer who doesn't know originality any better than me is another.

Caveat emptor.

SRH

[Dean Romig]

Yup Stan, you nailed it!





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[Russell E. Cleary]

I emailed Mr. Hall yesterday about getting the Volume 22 issue 1 Parker pages and the Spring 2008 issue as well. I had previously emailed him about the Spring 2008 issue and never got a response.

John:

I don't know how long ago you sent the first request, but my experience with Mr. Hall when I requested a back issue of PARKER PAGES, was that I got no response to my email, but I got exactly what I was asking for delivered to me.

It was an unusual case of, "all action, and no talk".

The postal service is slow these days, but I believe you will get from Mr. Hall exactly what you emailed him for.

[Alfred Greeson]

Bruce, always great to see your "ole stuff", thanks for sharing.

[John Bastiani]

John:

I don't know how long ago you sent the first request, but my experience with Mr. Hall when I requested a back issue of PARKER PAGES, was that I got no response to my email, but I got exactly what I was asking for delivered to me.

It was an unusual case of, "all action, and no talk".

The postal service is slow these days, but I believe you will get from Mr. Hall exactly what you emailed him for.

Okay! Thanks

[Bill Murphy]

Stan has hit the nail on the head. Most dealers, even the big names, just don't know a real gun from a fake. But they don't care. Why do dealers buy bad guns? Because they know they can sell them for the big bucks. Always buy the gun, not the dealer's reputation. I have bought some wonderful guns from crooked dealers. The "Man from Pennsylvania" sold hundreds of faked up guns, but some collectors have bought great guns from him also. He is an example of a real high level crook, because he had the guns faked up and sold them as originals. However, we don't know if he knew the difference when on a shopping trip. Again, he didn't care.

[Brian Dudley]

If they know or not, is besides the point. Many put the gun out there for what it is and let the buyer decide. When it boils down to it, how can they absolutely guarantee that a gun is completely original when they just came into possession of it after a 100 year or more life?

[Grayson Williams]

Its like a Persian rug takes 3 lifetimes to interpret casecolors