209 primers

[charlie cleveland]

where have all the primers gone....I looked on the internet tonight and not one primer of any kind could I find...some things up but don't know a thing yet...see if you guys can order any primers...I went to the gun show here at home and no primers were there...and ammo dealer told me a fellow could have done good if any body had primers to sell....this will put the hurt on us small reloaders....charlie

[Craig Larter]

Good luck finding primers or powder! It's most likely three events, pandemic hoarding, the Remington bankruptcy, and a new anti gun administration.
On a positive note Precision Relocating just got 8 ga Winchester hulls back in stock!!!!
I have started replacing Remington primers in my 3/4 oz 12ga target load with Cheddites since it could a very long time before Remington primers are available if ever.

[Rick Losey]

there are three plausible explanations for the primer shortage -

Hoarding - people think they have to have 10's of thousand primers on hand for the impending Armageddon -

Profiteering - look on Gunbroker - there are primers for sale - at extortion prices - a box of 1000 primers (depending on size and brand) should be about $40 +/- - they are available on GB for 250 to 300 or even more - the only way to stop that is for people not to buy them - but the panic types will continue to encourage this behavoir even though they are less likely to use them any more than the garage full of toilet paper


lastly - and maybe mostly - its the ammo shortage -the ammo makers are sucking up the primers as they come off the line - because there are more hoarders stockpiling ammo than there are reloaders - the manufacturers of primers are not about to build more factory capacity for what may be a temporary crisis if that investment will not be need long term - primers take specialty equipment

the only primers I am truly low on is small pistol primers - the local gun shops I know tell me they have been on back order for most of the year with no delivery date in sight

[Steve Huffman]

How hard is it to ship primers do you have to disclose they may blow up if your box is hit with a sledge hammer ?

[CraigThompson]

On a positive note Precision Relocating just got 8 ga Winchester hulls back in stock!!!!
I have started replacing Remington primers in my 3/4 oz 12ga target load with Cheddites since it could a very long time before Remington primers are available if ever.

I was sitting in a treestand last Thursday at about 07:45 when I recieved a call from Precision telling me the hulls I had on order were in , so I now have 600 headed in my direction . Those and the six hundred plus Remington hulls oughtta keep me going the rest of my life . I bought 10,000 Chedditte’s a couple months ago , but I’ve still got 14,000 or so Winchester’s and a thousand or so Remingtons and of course a thousand CCI 209M’s . All bought at regular , well what used to be regular price .

[CraigThompson]

there are three plausible explanations for the primer shortage -

Hoarding - people think they have to have 10's of thousand primers on hand for the impending Armageddon -

Profiteering - look on Gunbroker - there are primers for sale - at extortion prices - a box of 1000 primers (depending on size and brand) should be about $40 +/- - they are available on GB for 250 to 300 or even more - the only way to stop that is for people not to buy them - but the panic types will continue to encourage this behavoir even though they are less likely to use them any more than the garage full of toilet paper


lastly - and maybe mostly - its the ammo shortage -the ammo makers are sucking up the primers as they come off the line - because there are more hoarders stockpiling ammo than there are reloaders - the manufacturers of primers are not about to build more factory capacity for what may be a temporary crisis if that investment will not be need long term - primers take specialty equipment

the only primers I am truly low on is small pistol primers - the local gun shops I know tell me they have been on back order for most of the year with no delivery date in sight

We’ve had customers bringing in primers for us to sell on GB . One guy brought in a sleeve (5,000) WIN small rifle primers , we listed them for $225 and as it’s an auction site they sold for about $700 . We’ve had others bring in a thousand of this or that list them at $50 and they all end up going for about $150 . I saw a pound of Hodgdon H322 on there the other day the seller was asking $225 for a single pound :shock:

[Rick Losey]

How hard is it to ship primers do you have to disclose they may blow up if your box is hit with a sledge hammer ?

yes it is my understanding that primers require HAZMAT shipping

although new primed shotshells (and maybe brass) doesn't

[Frank Srebro]

Here's a pic of a buy during the "Old Days" ..... actually just a few years ago. 34 bags (850 pounds) of West Coast Magnum shot, 17,000 primers, 10,000 wads and 57 pounds of powder.

In comparison a friend made the 4-1/2 hour road round trip two weeks ago and a sign on the door showed limits of 300 Cheddite primers, two 500 count bags of wads, and one 8 pounder of powder (but nothing but a few bottles of oddball powders were left in stock). Shot however was still available at 10 bags max and that was the Peruvian Eagle brand.

[John Campbell]

The shooting/reloading world will change drastically on Jan. 20, 2021. For better, or for worse.

[Steve Huffman]

The shooting/reloading world will change drastically on Jan. 20, 2021. For better, or for worse.

How could it be for the better ?

[CraigThompson]

Here's a pic of a buy during the "Old Days" ..... actually just a few years ago. 34 bags (850 pounds) of West Coast Magnum shot, 17,000 primers, 10,000 wads and 57 pounds of powder.

In comparison a friend made the 4-1/2 hour road round trip two weeks ago and a sign on the door showed limits of 300 Cheddite primers, two 500 count bags of wads, and one 8 pounder of powder (but nothing but a few bottles of oddball powders were left in stock). Shot however was still available at 10 bags max and that was the Peruvian Eagle brand.

Looks kinda like my trips to Shirks a few years back , I’d go up and pick up for one of the local dealers that’s no longer with us . Quite a few times I came back with triple the allowable weight of powder . Last week I bought a bunch of 16 gauge stuff off a kinda local fellow that’s giving up loading . Thirty three bags SP-16 wads , 5 pounds SR4756 , 4,000 primers , 650-16 , JR-28 , JR-410 , press acces and the reason for me buying the stuff 5-7G’s the old WIN AA style 16 gauge hulls of which 4,000 appear to be once fired .

[CraigThompson]

https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/why-is-there-a-primer-supply-shortage/

[Jim McKee]

Charlie, It is hit or miss here- mostly missing. In late October/early November a local gun store had Winchester 209 primers- it appeared to be at-least 20,000 + and much more of the Winchester Large Pistol primers. All gone in less than 2 weeks
These were the first primers I had seen since March.
Jim


where have all the primers gone....I looked on the internet tonight and not one primer of any kind could I find...some things up but don't know a thing yet...see if you guys can order any primers...I went to the gun show here at home and no primers were there...and ammo dealer told me a fellow could have done good if any body had primers to sell....this will put the hurt on us small reloaders....charlie

[John Campbell]

Just checked with our local Bass Pro Shop. NO reloading components whatsoever. And they've been out for weeks, with none on the way.
Brownell's has NO primers. Ballistic Products has NO primers. Cabela's has NO primers. Midway has no primers.

Why?

COVID-19?
The Russians?

Short supply chain? No.
Huge increase in shooting/reloading enthusiasm? No.
Hoarding? Maybe.
Paranoia? Maybe.
Recent developments in DC? Maybe.
Hope for the future? Ahhhh...

[Dean Romig]

Intentional 'infringement'? possibly...

One is not armed - cannot effectively "keep and bear arms" if his arm is not charged.





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[Jay Gardner]

All the same "sky is falling" blah, blah, blah that was percolating in 2008 when Obama was elected and was going to have the House and Senate. The Biden administration is inheriting a train wreck and Covid and probably won't have the Senate. Any thing related to gun control will be waaay down the list of priorities. As fulfilling as it might be to blame political forces, sorry to burst your bubble, it's basic supply and demand.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks Jay...

So why the abysmal gap between supply and demand?





.

[Jay Gardner]

Thanks Jay...

So why the abysmal gap between supply and demand?
.

Don't know if you noticed but most businesses spent several months this year closed and were only able to ramp up production in September. Hell, I had to wait almost 3-months for a new set of tires to come in. Anyone try to buy packs of TP last summer - there wasn't any. With increased demand in the spring, production being shut down for an extended period, then people freaking out over the siege of the suburbs, what the heck do you expect? But it is easier to blame it on politics and much better for the industry.

It's economics 101.

[Dean Romig]

Good points Jay,





.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

You guys got me spooked. Stopped at local reloading supplier today and bought a few bricks of primers--maybe should have bought the whole sleeve. Also couple bags of shot and some 20 ga claybuster wads.

[Pete Lester]

I buy almost all my reloading supplies from a club member where I shoot who has an FFL and keeps club members supplied with primers, powders, wads and shot as well as loaded ammunition. He recently got a small shipment of lead shot and called me to let me know. In our brief conversation he said to me I never thought I would see a day when plastic wads would be hard to get but here we are. We have been living in strange times for the availability of ammunition and reloading components on and off for at least the last five years when there was the first big powder and ammo shortage that I remember. Covid has most certainly impacted the production and supply of many items including ammo and reloading. Politics and hoarding (fear purchases) are also factors. Once the shelves go bare it takes a LONG time for it to catch back up. I would not be surprised if we don't see some semblance of normalcy in supply until next summer or possibly later. One thing you can be sure of, it will all be selling at a higher price the next time you see the shelves are stocked.

[CraigThompson]

I buy almost all my reloading supplies from a club member where I shoot who has an FFL and keeps club members supplied with primers, powders, wads and shot as well as loaded ammunition. He recently got a small shipment of lead shot and called me to let me know. In our brief conversation he said to me I never thought I would see a day when plastic wads would be hard to get but here we are. We have been living in strange times for the availability of ammunition and reloading components on and off for at least the last five years when there was the first big powder and ammo shortage that I remember. Covid has most certainly impacted the production and supply of many items including ammo and reloading. Politics and hoarding (fear purchases) are also factors. Once the shelves go bare it takes a LONG time for it to catch back up. I would not be surprised if we don't see some semblance of normalcy in supply until next summer or possibly later. One thing you can be sure of, it will all be selling at a higher price the next time you see the shelves are stocked.

I think it’s more like last 12 years .

[CraigThompson]

I was never overly big on 16 gauge loads with the SP-16 wad but Tuesday I took the 650 I just got in that pile of stuff SR4756 and some of those SP-16’s as well as the old AA style 16 gauge hulls and tried the load he used . They look pretty decent and didn’t feel bad shooting into the snail .

[Daryl Corona]

I was never overly big on 16 gauge loads with the SP-16 wad but Tuesday I took the 650 I just got in that pile of stuff SR4756 and some of those SP-16’s as well as the old AA style 16 gauge hulls and tried the load he used . They look pretty decent and didn’t feel bad shooting into the snail .

Craig;
Would you care to share you load with 4756? Do you have the specs on it as far as pressure? I've got a good quanity of 4756, which I used to use in a 7/8th oz. load in a 20 ga.

[CraigThompson]

Craig;
Would you care to share you load with 4756? Do you have the specs on it as far as pressure? I've got a good quanity of 4756, which I used to use in a 7/8th oz. load in a 20 ga.

I used a #31 bushing (that’s what he had in the machine and claimed he used) with an ounce of shot the SP-16 a WIN 209 all scrunched in the old AA style 16 hulls . The #31 is “supposed to be 24.5 by the table” however we all know that may or may not be the case . The fellow that gave me the load claims 5300 PSI and 1150 FPS . I might go along with the velocity but the other I question . To be honest I’m just glad to have something I can use all those SP-16 wads in . May have to come up with a secondary powder to use as I think I’ve got 7 or 8 pounds total of 4756 . And I doubt that’s enough to get me thru 33 or so bags of wads .

[Frank Srebro]

Spotted today in the sporting goods section of a local hardware. NobelSport 209 shotgun primers. Only $95.99 per 1000. Get 'em while you can! :whistle:

[Brian Dudley]

They have gone the way of everything else that is hard to get these days.

And it wont get better...

[CraigThompson]

They have gone the way of everything else that is hard to get these days.

And it wont get better...

I have a strange feeling "these days" may last for a rather long time :crying:

[Jay Gardner]

I have a strange feeling "these days" may last for a rather long time :crying:

Probably. Just like TP, people will hoard.

[Pete Lester]

A good read on the "Great Primer Shortage of 2020".

https://www.powdervalleyinc.com/why-is-there-a-primer-supply-shortage/

[Brian Dudley]

And all the people buying everything up will be looking to sell at a loss in 5 years because, guess what... they didn't use any of it. It is the cycle that keeps repeating itself.

[Eldon Goddard]

Charlie do you need some primers? PM me if so.

[Frank Cronin]

Spotted today in the sporting goods section of a local hardware. NobelSport 209 shotgun primers. Only $95.99 per 1000. Get 'em while you can! :whistle:

That's a deal compared to what I am seeing on GB. I was browsing and seen three boxes of CCI small pistol sell for a grand. Crazy times.

[Daryl Corona]

These people gouging like this should be horse whipped. And, the people buying this stuff at these ridiculous prices should have their head examined. But then again, if you are stupid enough to pay these prices you deserve what you get.

[John Campbell]

That's a deal compared to what I am seeing on GB. I was browsing and seen three boxes of CCI small pistol sell for a grand. Crazy times.

I won't cite specifics, but the stash of 209s that I laid in during the Obama years appears to have suddenly turned my garage into Fort Knox !!

[CraigThompson]

The last two sleeves of WIN 209’s I bought about 3 4 months ago were $147.50@5000 . And a couple weeks after I got two sleeves of Chedditte 209’s for $135@5000 . Think I’ve got forty bags of shot , got four bags from an old friend yesterday he told me $25 a bag so I took what he had . The ONLY thing I could really use would be 1 or 2 pounds of Alliant RL-25 for my pair of high octane 6.5 short Mags .

[CraigThompson]

I won't cite specifics, but the stash of 209s that I laid in during the Obama years appears to have suddenly turned my garage into Fort Knox !!

That jackass is the reason I bought a bunch of powders I wouldn’t normally buy . I bought what I could that would work in my parameters . So now I have six to twenty or so different powders that’ll do the same thing in shotguns . Rifle powders are a skoosh more particular but I’ve got enough of that to last me a bunch of years . Well except for RL-25 but there are others I’ve not tried that’ll do just about the same thing and I have decent supplies of several of them .

[Rick Losey]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

my son just called- he is almost totally a bow hunter -

but occasionally takes out one of those space age in line muzzle loaders for the late season

he has a new scope to sight in and he was down to two 209 primers in his pocket so he stopped at a shop to buy some

he called to ask what was going on :rotf::rotf::rotf:

[Brian Dudley]

Rick,
If you guys need some primers, let me know.

[Rick Losey]

thank you very much Brian, really, generous as always


i am well stocked with various brands of 209's, (still begging for small pistols :crying:)

i just got a kick out his awakening to the situation

[Stan Hillis]

I was given a very large cardboard box of scrapped, new Cheddite hulls, years ago, that were rejected by the Estate factory and thrown out. Those which had made it through most of the loading process, and then found to be substandard or damaged, had been cut open and the components salvaged by Estate. Many are brand new primed hulls. I have been salvaging the Cheddite primers over the years, as needed. Didn't know how well they would work after being "punched" out of the hulls and seated in another hull, but they have worked just fine. No problems with them backing out, or not being tight enough. I didn't know, when they were given to me, how valuable those primers would one day be!

SRH

[Jay Gardner]

And all the people buying everything up will be looking to sell at a loss in 5 years because, guess what... they didn't use any of it. It is the cycle that keeps repeating itself.

For sale: 10,000 rounds of 5.56 ammo. They are the green tipped rounds, you know the ones that pretty much all shooting ranges prohibit but they are just what you need for a zombie apocalypse.

[Pete Lester]

And all the people buying everything up will be looking to sell at a loss in 5 years because, guess what... they didn't use any of it. It is the cycle that keeps repeating itself.

If you haven't already familiarize yourself with the National Firearms Safety Act H.R. 5717 introduced a year ago in the US House of Representatives. It didn't go anywhere in 2020 but could return this year with a much greater chance of being passed into law. If passed as written it includes a 50% excise tax on ammunition and components. If passed it will certainly cut that potential loss from the high prices people are paying today. That bill also includes a 30% excise tax on firearms.

[John Campbell]

... the National Firearms Safety Act H.R. 5717 introduced a year ago in the US House of Representatives. ... it includes a 50% excise tax on ammunition and components. ...That bill also includes a 30% excise tax on firearms.

What a relief! A 50% and 30% tax. Now THAT will make firearms MUCH safer!!

[Pete Lester]

What a relief! A 50% and 30% tax. Now THAT will make firearms MUCH safer!!

I get the point you are trying to make and agree but if you read the proposed bill the money collected is supposed to be directed at safety education as it relates to firearms.

It actually contains many things most of us would not like or agree to. Such as all sales have to go through a dealer. Minimum age to buy a gun is 21. A license is required to own and purchase including ammo. Safe storage requirements for guns. No shotgun can have more than 5 round capacity. A ban on suppressors and mufflers. Assault weapon ban as defined. That is just a few of the things I remember, it's very long and contains a lot of restrictions and requirements. It's all here if you care to read it.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/5717/text

[John Campbell]

And some wonder why there is "hoarding" of all ammunition and components? Just look at today's circumstances.
Chances are we'll all be closet felons in just a few months...

[Brian Dudley]

It is never about safety. If it was about safety, it would actually make sense.
It is about trying to reduce the number of guns in peoples possession. Period.