Parker not firing

[Ian Miller]

I have a 1917 Parker 12 gauge here in Zambia where we have no gunsmiths. It regularly fails to fire either barrel and I've stripped it down and removed the firing pin and hammer assembly and the springs. How can I tell if the springs or the firing pins are worn? Can I get replacements? How easy is it to diy extension of the pins?

[Dean Romig]

Have you determined that the strikers are striking the primers too lightly?

[Ian Miller]

Yes, if the primer is slightly depressed in the cartridge face the pins only leave a shallow dent, thus I thought the pins could need extending for a millimeter or so.

[charlie cleveland]

is this gun have the name of just parker on it or does it say parker brothers on side plates.....will make a differance in this forem helping you fix problem.... charlie

[Ian Miller]

Yes Parker Brothers on the side plates thanks Charlie

[Dean Romig]

There may be old hardened oil crud impacted into the striker cones in the frame preventing the full travel of the strikers.

[Ian Miller]

I thought of that and cleaned as best as I could and reassembled but no improvement, thanks Dean

[Francis Morin]

Ian- I have a set (RH and LH) of hammers with intact pins from a later 12 Parker Trojan that may work, if needed here- also the coil springs and retainers- Dean is 100% right, 9 times out of 10, crud and dried oil are often the culprit-

Here's how I check for firing pin depth and primer pocket penetration- with Parker assembled and hammers cocked, remove the forearm and barrels, and hold a piece of 3/4" or 1" clean and knot free soft pine against the standing breech face- release safety and fire each hammer with striker into the wood, then check both holes for uniform penetration with a pin depth gauge. If that looks OK, it might be shells with extra hard primers such as B&P or Fiocchi-

Sometimes a check of the firing pin holes is warranted- gas blowback can often enlarge and make them "out of round"- and excessive extractor drag or scuff marks may indicate a slight "off face" condition, easily corrected here as we have many top gunsmiths in America- not the case where you are I surmise however.

Another possibility- perhaps just the first trigger (right hand barrel) is mis-firing, often that is the most fired of a double, but that is just a supposition- with the gun re-assembled and the hammers recocked, remove the forearm and try this- try to 'wiggle" the barrels to see for off face or excessive play- and then with the forearm still off, mount the gun as if you were going to shoot it, and bump the stock into your shoulder pocket to see if there is any movement of the barrels against the frame.

It might help us help you if you could detail and the ID numbers found on your Parker- barrel flats and lug (frame size), receiver, forearm iron.

What game do you get to hunt with this Parker in your country??

[Robin Lewis]

What kind of shells are you using? Do they sit flush with the breach end when inserted?

[Ian Miller]

Thanks for the last 2 messages. I'll do the various checks suggested. Some of our locally available shells are thinner rimmed than others and these do sit slightly recessed in the breach. We are lucky to get very good guineafowl and francolin shooting in September and October followed by red-eyed dove and from early December until 1st Jan closed season fantastic spurwing and Knob-billed (combed) duck all on our farm just outside Lusaka. All attracted to wheat and barley stubble and soya fields.

[Mark Ouellette]

Ian,

I do not claim to be a gunsmith but for what it is worth, if your ammunition has thin rims and thus is not held by the chamber next to/touching the breach, the thin rims are likely the problem.

A simple test might be to point the muzzles toward the sky and fire a few shots in each barrel. To ensure a controlled test only load one barrel for each shot. While loading keep the muzzles SAFELY elevated. The weight of the shell should keep it resting against the breach.

If the shells all fire in the above test them the porblem is likely the thin rims of the shells. Perhaps someone else will have a solution to this problem.

PS: I didn't remember where Zambia was so I Googled it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zambia
I take great pride that the PGCA can via the Internet be accessable to an entire world of Parker shooters and collectors!!!

Respectfully,
Mark

[tom leshinsky]

There may be pieces of a coil spring in the firing pin hole. Some had a coil spring to retract the pins and they rust and break. If all else fails make new pins

[Dave Suponski]

Ian, This is a hammerless gun....correct?

[Francis Morin]

There may be pieces of a coil spring in the firing pin hole. Some had a coil spring to retract the pins and they rust and break. If all else fails make new pins-- My basic knowledge of Parker guns only applies to the hammerless series-- the term used here "made new pins" could be a bit misleading, and the hammerless Parkers had the firing pin (striker) forged with the entire hammer, then machined to print dimension. Now LC Smiths (and other sidelocks) tend to have separate firing pins (strikers) and there, if you have Lt. Col. Brophy's book on specs.- and the machining ability, you could indeed turn out replacement pins on a lathe.

Parkers have rebounding locks, as listed on their catalogues and hang tags, I believe, that pretty much state you can "dry-fire" them w/o snap caps and cause no harm to the firing pins- I have never opened up a AH Fox boxlock gun, but seem to recall the now late Mike McIntosh mentioning the one thing (in his opinion) deficient in the fine Fox action was the lack of rebounding hammers.

However, as I believe in gremlins that snafu computers-anything is possible. I own a older GHE 12 that was originally a GH- was fitted with ejectors later, but not at the factory. So- it is entirely possible that some enterprising gunsmith may have added coil springs to a Parker as an experiment to rebound the strikers after firing.

I have a good friend originally from Germany- retired Mechanical Engineer from Allis-Chalmers, at the Yooper shoot I left my 12 3E Smith for him, as he has worked on many European shotguns and rifles as a gunsmith- he wanted to see if an older Smith like mine with the bushed firing pins was adaptable to your concept of a trapped coil spring to rebound the firing pin tip- not a bad idea, as they are "free floating" in the bushing and receiver breech, if you have the hammers cocked and open a Smith with the muzzles downward, you'll see the tips of both strikers protruding!:bigbye::bigbye:

[Richard Flanders]

Sounds like fun hunting! All my friends go to Africa to hunt the big fur; I just want to go hunt birds! Keep asking questions and folks here will get you going somehow. A good welder could easily extend your firing pins a bit if that's the issue. Another possibility is that the sears have been shortened a few times over the decades and the hammers now do not cock enough to get enough pressure on the firing pins when they fire. Sears can be welded up and re contoured also. Post a few pics of your birds there if you can.

[Francis Morin]

Sounds like fun hunting! All my friends go to Africa to hunt the big fur; I just want to go hunt birds! Keep asking questions and folks here will get you going somehow. A good welder could easily extend your firing pins a bit if that's the issue. Another possibility is that the sears have been shortened a few times over the decades and the hammers now do not cock enough to get enough pressure on the firing pins when they fire. Sears can be welded up and re contoured also. Post a few pics of your birds there if you can.

TIG (tungsten inert gas) aka- Heli-Arc is my process of choice and experience, however-- sears, leaf springs and to some extent hardened hammers with integral machined firing pin tips- TIG may NOT be the best choice- hardened alloy steels require annealing first, then proper interpass temperature must be maintained (TempilSticks work well) then post weld pack in charcoal and asbestos blanket wraps- then re-hardened and possibly drawn-- Properly done it will repair/restore parts- improperly done and if the sears or sear notches in the hammers are distorted by HAZ (heat affected zone) welding input- you may have a potential failure waiting to happen after re-assembly--

Plasma or spray welding build up is a better way to proceeds IMO- no heat input as with TIG----I have TIG welded new sections to top and bottom tangs and trigger guards and trigger plates where needed=- in most "double fitted" shotguns like Parkers- you are working with mild steel (AISI 1018) in the lower 40 C scale Rockwell hardness range-but hardened alloyed and machined to dimension gun parts- sears, hammers, etc- 'whole 'nother ball game' lads, at least in my experience--:cool::cool:

[Robin Lewis]

Ian,

Any resolution to your problem?

[Ian Miller]

Thanks to all for your advice. On balance I think I will send down the firing pin assembly to South Africa and get the pins extended. That is relatively easy. Hopefully the springs are ok, but I guess the gunsmith can look at them and advise.

[Francis Morin]

Or can you drive there easily from where you are, Ian?>? If it were me, I would suiggest taking him the entire gun assembled, that way he can accurately test fire it after he has re-machined the striker tips on the hammers, and balanced the springs for proper tension-- Let us know how all this has worked out for you- and enjoy the Parker--:bigbye:

[Ian Miller]

Just to let those who gave me so much advice; I thoroughly cleaned out the firing pin chambers and everything else and re-assembled the gun. It test-fired fine. Now it's a matter of seeing how it goes when I start putting a lot of shots through it in the season starting in August.