Do U find early non-SxS's interesting?

[Craig Larter]

Just wondering if you guys find non-SXS's from the say 1895 to the 1920's interesting, collectible and fun to shoot?? Guns like the 1897 Winchester, Model 10 and 11 Remington, 1912 Winchester etc. These guns killed the double gun for many reasons. I find the John Browning designed guns to be the most interesting, he was an amazing inventor and in many ways his designs have not been substantially improved upon. Besides our beloved Parkers, AH Fox. Lefever and LC Smiths which were all the result of inventing genius you have to recognize the non-SxS's of the period.
I also think the Vintagers etc. should start promoting shoots for non-SxS's from the golden era. I believe if open to vintage autos and pumps the vintage shoots would attract more folks.
What say you?? My favorite non-SxS is the Remington Automatic shotgun that became the Model 11. The action on a Model 11 is the perfect canvas for engraving.

[Brian Dudley]

I love model 11s. I have owned a number of them. I still have a couple.

[Craig Larter]

Brian the Model 11 is a wonder, it was just not a incremental improvement but a radical departure from gun design of the day.

[edgarspencer]

I have always loved the sound of a '97. I have my Dad's uncles gun, and I remember when the owner of Poly Choke offered to put one on it, my dad reluctantly said OK. Poly Choke was in an old brick mill building on the Farmington River, 2 miles away (Now houses our favorite restaurant )
I have a first year Model 1912 in 16ga, and my first shotgun, a Super Grade model 12 20ga.
The shop sold me the 1912 stupid cheap. He said " You know, you can't get ammo for these anymore":rotf:

I have always had an appreciation for Remingtons, but have not owned a single one. I think it's that 'Ford-Chevy' thing, or maybe because Winchester, Colt and Parker were all well known Connecticut companies.

[Craig Larter]

Many think of vintage shoguns as only doubles, but the repeaters were very much part of the market after the turn of the century.

[Ken Descovich]

I just love old shotguns in general, I have remington model 11, browning A5, winchester model 12 I even have some obscure single shots like the remington 1893 to many to mention.

[Phil Yearout]

My late father-in-law shot a 12ga Model 11, and very well. The only gun I ever knew my father to shoot is a 16ga Savage 775a, also built on that patent. I finally passed that gun on to my nephew last year. Like many here I just love old shotguns, though I don't own any but SxS's and a couple of SBTs. As a 16ga fan I've toyed with a Sweet 16 once or twice but never took the plunge.

[Mills Morrison]

I have at least one Model 12, Auto-5, Ithaca 37 and 870 in my safe.

[Rick Losey]

I have an early model 12 heavy duck - 32 inch solid rib, keep saying I will hunt with it but it never seems to make the rotation.

I grew up with pumps, shot a BPS when steel shot came out and still have my Dad's 870 Wingmaster- never owned any auto

but they just don't do it for me on the whole

[James Rhodenizer]

Our vintager group (Virginia) shoots with the All American Pump Gun Assoc. a couple of time each year. It is a blast. They always have a couple of stations that throw triples. I shoot a couple of old single barrels a few times each year. My favorite is a 20ga. Lefever. They handle a lot differently than anything else.
Every now and then, a change is fun.

[Bobby Cash]

Winchester Model 20.
Single shot Hammer .410


https://i.imgur.com/1LVHmZE.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/okEeELv.jpg

[Dave Noreen]

Because two of my favorite early 20th Century characters on the shotgunning scene, Ansley H. Fox and Harold B. Money, shucked the Model 1897 for the Big W, I always wanted one. I'd been using Model 12 Skeet Guns and the Remington Model 31 for decades before I finally got a Model 97. Found it far less forgiving than the more modern pump guns I'd been using, and was very happy when the Model 97 got traded off on a Superposed. I'm much more a fan of the Winchester Model 12s, Remington Sportsman autoloaders & Model 31s of the 1930s and 40s.

Even though my Father railed against two things in American shotgunnery -- Winchester Model 24s and bottom dumper pump guns, here in my 70s I broke his admonitions and picked up a little improved cylinder, solid rib, Remington Model 17. $200 out the door at my local pawn shop. Been a good bit of fun and when I took it to the grain elevators for Eurasians I got three in my first four shots before my usual shooting kicked in!!

88517

[Kevin McCormack]

Just wondering if you guys find non-SXS's from the say 1895 to the 1920's interesting, collectible and fun to shoot?? My favorite non-SxS is the Remington Automatic shotgun that became the Model 11. The action on a Model 11 is the perfect canvas for engraving.

Are you kidding me? Below are pics of a c. 1909 Grade 6 (Premier Grade) Remington Autoloading Shotgun (RAS) also known as the RA(Gun). The shorebirds and rendition of the dogs and waterfowl really put the hook in me and I had to have it. Enjoy!

[Daryl Corona]

Great topic Craig. I shoot my M12's regularly and they range in age from 1912 to 1948. An 11-48 in 20ga. is used when I'm ready to discard shells that are at the end of their reloading life and last but not least is a Rem M32.

Mikey K. does have a pump gun event at his shoot and maybe throwing in a vintage autoloader or O/U event is a possibility.

[Joseph Flynn]

Im a big fan of auto-5s and model 11s, I also like early pumps like you mentioned. I personally find most guns of the era interesting and fun for a number of reasons. The craftsmanship and attention to detail, even on mass produced guns of the time, is unmatched today. I have a Winchester 1887 10ga that I think is pretty neat too.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I've owned everything you mentioned but I'm down to about a dozen humpbacks these days. My favorite is a Model 522 Stevens though, technically a "humpback" don't you know. I owe the coolest one I've ever seen, a straight grip trap model with killer wood and a 32 inch solid rib barrel.

Destry

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I had a weak moment at a gun show on Saturday and bought a Red Letter Winchester Model 37 in .410.....

[Brett Hoop]

I have Model 12s from both grandfathers. One a Black Diamond trap, and the other a Pigeon Grade 16, along with their solid rib field guns mostly silver like they tend to be as they saw lots of use. I try and take one on the Thanksgiving morning pheasant hunt. There were no 870s in those homes, but I would love to have a Remington 17 in 20ga just like Researcher’s above.
One day I will find another Win. Mdl 37, .410 single barrel just like the one I had as child and shot many a limit of rabbits in front of our beagles. Just because you have a early Mdl 42 doesn’t mean one doesn’t need a Steel built single barrel.
I can run a pump gun, I know I can break more targets with the Belgian Browning O/U, but the Parker guns make the memories now.

[James L. Martin]

I am a fan of Winchester Model 12's only buy ones with a solid or vent rib. Great guns

[Russ Jackson]

I have owned a few Model 1148's Chambered in 28 Gauge over the years and really like them ! I Love how the barrel moves to cock them ! Very Unique !

[Gary Laudermilch]

I shoot 5-stand every Wed. evening and for weeks now I have been toting two guns to the range. A Parker repro and a model 12 solid rib skeet gun choked IC. A round with each and I am not sure which is more fun.

[Keith Doty]

Nothing wrong with single barrels, personally I'm pretty weak for old, original A-5s. Weak enough to own several, got a first year Sweet 16 that's a favorite early season duck buster.

[todd allen]

I have a custom stocked Briley choked M-97 that is a deadly shooting blind gun.
Mostly protect pecan orchards from crows.
Also, a Damascus BBLd M-97, all original. I think Damascus was a 20 dollar option on a 15 dollar gun. Let that sink in for a minute.

[Frank Cronin]

My favorite is my Winchester '97 Black Diamond with matte top on the barrel. Straight stock with highly figured wood. Unsure if it's a Tournament grade or Trap grade. Looking under the buttplate to see if it was marked but didn't find anything. I shoot this gun in my Greater Lowell trap league. The look on the other teams faces walking off the line with a 25 shooting a 96 year old JMB classic is priceless .

Upland gun is my Remington Model 17 with solid rib choked IC on the barrel. Six pounds on the nose and wonderful to carry.

Sporting clays or a skeet is my Remington Model 11 20 gauge with 32" barrel. This gun makes me a better shooter.... The sighting plane is longer than my 34" barreled Parker.

[Phillip Carr]

I purchased a Winchester model 50 Deluxe Skeet WS1 12 gauge several years ago. it wasn’t until just a few weeks ago that I took it to the dairy for some Eurasian dove and pigeon action.
Whether it was the Weight that tamed the recoil or the design I am not sure but the recoil was not bad and it was a joy to shoot.

[CraigThompson]

At the moment I’m hung up sort of on 16 gauge . And am after a couple 16 Model 12’s . I’m partial to Model 11’s and A-5’s but the Belgian A-5’s I prefer are the flat knob years meaning 66 or so to the mid 70’s . Have a circa 1954 870 I kinda like it was roughish when I got it and it’s still a little rough but I smoothed it out a bit . Bought a 16 gauge Winchester 37 a couple weeks ago , not sure why but it’s a kinda neat gun .

[Richard Flanders]

Ithaca mod 37's rule for non S/S shotguns.

[edgarspencer]

Also, a Damascus BBLd M-97, all original. I think Damascus was a 20 dollar option on a 15 dollar gun. Let that sink in for a minute.

I have always loved the Dam barrel '97, and would own one in 16 if I could find it.

[Frank Srebro]

Similar to Parker, Fox, Lefever, etc double guns, many of us have our favorite maker and model of repeater because of actual/perceived good reasons and often just plain nostalgia. For me that's the Winchester Model 12 whether for hunting or clays shooting. Reliability is right up there, something I can't say for other vintage pump gun models I've seen being used at events. I'll repeat what a friend said while three of our gang were shooting clays with M-12's on Wednesday ….. they should have stopped designing pump guns after the Model 1912 came out. Ha! Besides, Model 12's with ribs "got the look" that few other repeaters whether pumps or semi-autos can even come close to. Yah I know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

There are few scenarios nicer for M-12 clays shooters than can happen at an event along with B, K, P o/u's and competition gas guns with the latest hyped up screw chokes, and having their owners see you grind up the clays with an old fixed choke Winny 12 that fits well and almost pumps itself. :)

[CraigThompson]

Similar to Parker, Fox, Lefever, etc double guns, many of us have our favorite maker and model of repeater because of actual/perceived good reasons and often just plain nostalgia. For me that's the Winchester Model 12 whether for hunting or clays shooting. Reliability is right up there, something I can't say for other vintage pump gun models I've seen being used at events. I'll repeat what a friend said while three of our gang were shooting clays with M-12's on Wednesday ….. they should have stopped designing pump guns after the Model 1912 came out. Ha! Besides, Model 12's with ribs have "the look" that few other repeaters whether pumps or semi-autos can even come close to. Yah I know that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

There are few scenarios nicer for M-12 clays shooters than can happen at an event along with B, K, P o/u's and competition gas guns with the latest hyped up screw chokes, and having their owners see you grind up the clays with an old fixed choke Winny 12 that fits and almost pumps itself. :)

Strangely I like the look of a doggy dick (Cutts Compensator) on the end of a Model 12 vent rib gun or A-5 and even an 1100 skeet gun . A Poly Choke however is another matter as I loathe those things .

[Mills Morrison]

An old family friend loved Model 12's and 870's with Cutts Compensators. Dad bought a Model 12 20 with a Cutts just in his honor.

[Dave Noreen]

but I would love to have a Remington 17 in 20ga just like Researcher’s above.

Not quite like mine, but might meet your needs --

https://www.poulinauctions.com/spectacular-robert-runge-engraved-remington-17-f-premier-grade-pump-shotgun/

[Brett Hoop]

Not quite like mine, but might meet your needs --

https://www.poulinauctions.com/spectacular-robert-runge-engraved-remington-17-f-premier-grade-pump-shotgun/

Researcher

Yes Sir, that one would do nicely! I believe it will top my allowance, but what a wonderful display of talent.

[Craig Larter]

I prefer Remington Auto Loading engraving on the grades 4 Tournament,5 Expert,and 6 Premier to anything the Winchester factory did. Kevin your grade 6 autoloader is very handsome thanks for the pictures.

[Mike Poindexter]

The only pump I own now is a 20 ga. Model 37 from 1946 with a deluxe Polychoke on it, and factory checkered wood with good dimensions.. 6 lbs 3 oz. and the blob on the end is sort of like the muzzles of a double--it fits into my field of view but does not lure me into sighting down the single tube. I just dont shoot it enough to get back into the pump action reaction mode. Hits well on the first shot, though.

[charlie cleveland]

some really nice engraving on these guns...charlie

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Russ, my best friend Terry likes to carry his 11-48 28ga on occasion--it was his first gun, a birthday gift. It has a plain barrel, full choke. But now, thanks to a PGCA member, he now has a vent rib Skeet barrel.

[Carvel Whaley]

I have a mod 12 black diamond skeet with a factory cuts and the duck bill rib. Probably the smoothest pump I ever shot. Carvel

[Dean Romig]

Are you kidding me? Below are pics of a c. 1909 Grade 6 (Premier Grade) Remington Autoloading Shotgun (RAS) also known as the RA(Gun). The shorebirds and rendition of the dogs and waterfowl really put the hook in me and I had to have it. Enjoy!


Simply... a superb gun Kevin!





.

[Dean Romig]

I really enjoy shooting the 42 I bought from Phil Carr two or three years ago - It's very nice and fits me very well.

My first (and only until I bought the 42) pump I bought when I was 17 years old - a Stevens model 77F in 20 gauge with a POS adjustable choke. I hacked off the choke, cleaned up the burrs, drilled and tapped a hole and ran a brass machine screw in and filed it to a poor rendition of a 'bead'. (I must admit that my gunsmithing skills have improved markedly from those early days.) It is a great little Skeet gun and perfect for early grouse and woodcock.

I've ben told it is a knock-off of the Ithaca 37.

I should have taken the pictures in better lighting.

.

[Louis Rotelli]

I have several Win. model 12s all skeet, trap or some rare combo like a pair of I/C Vent rib guns that are 2 s/n apart one in 12 the other in 20. I also have model 42's in skeet
and a trap 2 bbl set in both 30 and 32" with solid rib. I shoot all my competitions with a model 12.

[Craig Larter]

Many interesting responses, thanks everyone for giving us an insight into your non Parker interests. Sometimes I turn off to non sxs's but the other designs are all part of our rich American firearms history. I must admit my love of the Winchester model 12 Duck and Remington model 11 grade E and F.

[Joseph Sheerin]

I have a Nice model 12 12ga with solid rib I like a lot, killed my first duck with a model 1987 12ga.... But, never liked the 97's as much as the 12's.....

But have to admit, that no matter how much I like my model 12, not nearly as much as the SxS's I own.....

[Daryl Corona]

Along with the guns mentioned I have to admit to a fondness for pre-war through early 70's Browning Superpose shotguns.

[Craig Larter]

Daryl I remember as a kid growing up in the 60's and dreaming if only someday I could own and hunt with a Browning Superposed I would be in tall cover! Then I was introduced to hunting by my Uncle Bill, an AH Fox man. :)

[CraigThompson]

Along with the guns mentioned I have to admit to a fondness for pre-war through early 70's Browning Superpose shotguns.

All those in my accumulation are in the 1950-1970 range . But let’s not forget the Remington Model 32 O/U as well as the Krieghoff versions .

[Daryl Corona]

Same here Craig. I remember answering an ad in, I think Field & Stream, for the "newest Browning catalog, free". I drooled over the shotguns especially the Double auto and the colored receivers. I finally bought one of the .22 LR's just a few years ago and added it to the superpose scatterguns in the safe.

I still have the catalog as it was just so well done. I'll have to go dig it out to relive my misspent yute. (My apologies to Joe Pesci)

[CraigThompson]

Same here Craig. I remember answering an ad in, I think Field & Stream, for the "newest Browning catalog, free". I drooled over the shotguns especially the Double auto and the colored receivers. I finally bought one of the .22 LR's just a few years ago and added it to the superpose scatterguns in the safe.

I still have the catalog as it was just so well done. I'll have to go dig it out to relive my misspent yute. (My apologies to Joe Pesci)

If you want some Double Auto's in the pretty anodized colors I can probably turn you on to several of them :whistle:

A guy down here that called himself a Browning collector had about 50 of the double auto's of which we've sold a few for him . He has a NIB Superposed Midas Broadway I tried and tried to get but he wouldn't put a price on it :banghead:

[Bobby Cash]

Along with the guns mentioned I have to admit to a fondness for pre-war through early 70's Browning Superpose shotguns.
Here's a mid-60's Grade 1 .410, 28" F/M. Looks to be the Grade 1 woodpile lottery winner.

https://i.imgur.com/EoU8kCR.png

[Dave Noreen]

Wow!! That certainly beats the wood on any of my Grade 1s!! A 1950 20-gauge --

88713

[Robert Brooks]

I have six model 37s one is a 16 gauge trap grade and also have a 16 gauge skeet grade. Bobby

[Daryl Corona]

Wow Bobby that is a stunner.
Dave, can't see the wood but it's a 20. Nuff said.

[CraigThompson]

Here's a mid-60's Grade 1 .410, 28" F/M. Looks to be the Grade 1 woodpile lottery winner.

https://i.imgur.com/EoU8kCR.png

I’ve got Superposed Grade 1 skeets in all four gauges and none have wood that nice .

[Stan Hillis]

I have to admit, not growing up shooting pumps they are not that attractive to me. I appreciate them, just not my cup of tea. That said, I have bought a couple in the last few years because of their unusual nature.

This is my M30 20 ga. Montgomery Ward/Browning, so called because it was designed by J. Browning and sold to J. Stevens Arms Co. when Winchester wouldn't pay what he felt the rights to production were worth. Stevens produced the 20 ga. as the Model 520. Same gun, but kinda cool with the "Westernfield/Browning" on the side. This particular one has a 28" barrel, tightly choked. It is a true take-down gun. All it takes to do so is to unscrew the magazine tube with your fingers, move the forend slide completely to the front, and pull down on the barrel/magazine tube ass'y. As you can see, it is mated very rigidly to the receiver when in place. Just an ingenious design. It's a man-sized pump 20 which weighs in at 6 lbs. 5 oz. empty, and carries nicely.

I can't seem to find the photos of it, but here's a link to some on the Fox site:

http://forum.foxcollectors.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=8470

Sorry for the inconvenience, SRH

[charlie cleveland]

I have a wards 20 ga just like the 20 humpback shown here its a take down model also...neat little pump guns....charlie

[Mills Morrison]

Going on a dove hunt today and might take a non-sxs. Harry wants to shoot my Auto-5

[charlie cleveland]

hope ya ll have a good hunt....charlie

[Mills Morrison]

No birds and we heard one gun shot. Left the field at 4 and came home. Still a great time with my sons. Sherwood found a mud puddle near us and laid down in it.

[Mills Morrison]

Beretta Silver Pigeons are the classic guns of tomorrow. Harry wound up taking his today and I took a Parker.

[Brian Dudley]

Last week, Scott and I hunted with Parkers, this morning we left the doubles at home and and brought put the Model 11 autos.
Mine a B grade 12g with 28” barrels and mod choke. Scotts is a later 20g sportsman.
I had not shot mine at live targets before and Scott had not shot his at all previously.
7 birds between the two of us.
Pilot and Havoc did a great job flushing them out.

89512

89513

89514

89515

89516

[Dave Noreen]

Likewise I normally hunt with doubles, but one day back in 2006, I took my 16-gauge Sportsman out and as luck would have it I got the perfect opportunity and got the only triple of my life.

89517

Got to admit that earlier that day I missed the first rooster we got up three shots.

[Scott Janowski]

I did the same thing with the first rooster I shot today! Missed all three shots on a nice rooster going away. First time I ever shot the gun!
Got him on the follow up.

[Harry Neil]

...

[Harry Neil]

Sorry....obv haven’t got the edit procedure down here.

[Harry Neil]

Like the SxS’s, but have to admit to going thru “spells” when only a Model 12 16gauge will do....and they balance as well as what many term best. Also fond of an Ithaca 37 28 Gauge...an easy carry and quick pointer.

Favorite pic of Toby and the 37....Toby was a poser and seemed to know when he was on stage....

https://live.staticflickr.com/1770/42108004334_85da2cd9f9_z.jpg

A sleeper and not pretty, but extremely effective.... Model 59 Winchester...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49307467212_904c01c1c8_z.jpg


Model 12....16gauge...Bud and I got into camp late and no time to compose a good pic...



https://live.staticflickr.com/7850/45679837985_a311593528_z.jpg

[Stan Hillis]

Six dead grouse in one "pile" is a good pic, regardless. Wow!

SRH

[Harry Neil]

Bud shot 2 of them....with a SxS that most don’t see...Renato Gamba 20 gauge...a really well built and balanced shotgun.

[Harry Neil]

Pic of him and the Gamba....

https://live.staticflickr.com/1866/44167480842_34882e424d_z.jpg

[Mike McKinney]

Harry,
That first photo is a great, classic, beautiful picture, as good as I’ve ever seen!

[Harry Neil]

Thank you, but “The Tob” made the pic....”What me worry?” Fit him to a T.

[Harry Neil]

Ithaca 37 28ga...

I could hear the fight going on in the SD background corn....Merlot finally came out on top, but it may have been a cage fight....

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49086409607_e3bae0b9b4_z.jpg

The other side....

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50292731111_00d1593057_z.jpg

[James L. Martin]

Goose and a 3" model 12.

[Harry Neil]

Model 12's are flat out cool....and they don't need a bunch of chickens and scratchings to be so....

[Harry Neil]

Then again....without the Dogs, hunting shotguns are little more than steel and wood thrown together...A London best worth little more than a Sears special....

[Frank Srebro]

Two 1950's Model 12's that strutted their stuff on sporting courses over the past few days. Both are Simmons VR guns. Lower gun is a new to me 20-gauge/28" with Mod choke; tried her out today at Rock Mountain and it seems I couldn't miss. Upper Winny is a 12-gauge/32" with Full choke, one of three pump guns in our squad of five shooters at the Charity shoot at Lehigh SC on Friday. Our 444 ex 500 was high score of 21 squads and this Model 12 placed 4th of 105 shooters. Love to see the raised eyebrows and looks of shooters with expensive competition o/u and gas guns. :whistle:

[Bill Murphy]

I have never felt handicapped when shooting my Model 12s. A couple of decades ago, I ran 100 in our 20 gauge event at the Maryland State NSSA shoot with an 870 that I still own. I lost the championship because I switched to my K-32 for the shootoff. I have a large covey of collector Model 12s but normally go to the well worn examples when shooting competition. In 1984, I decided to put away the pump guns for NSSA competition and switched to the tubed 3200. My last shoot with my 12 gauge milled rib Model 12 was a 99X100. It was more than a couple of shoots before I shot a 99 with my 3200. I was "Mister 99" with my Model 12 20 gauge at that time, so I sold it to my friend Mel Swerdloff who shot 100X100 low gun while test firing that 20 before writing the check. I wish I had that great gun back.

[Daryl Corona]

Two 1950's Model 12's that strutted their stuff on sporting courses over the past few days. Both are Simmons VR guns. Lower gun is a new to me 20-gauge/28" with Mod choke; tried her out today at Rock Mountain and it seems I couldn't miss. Upper Winny is a 12-gauge/32" with Full choke, one of three pump guns in our squad of five shooters at the Charity shoot at Lehigh SC on Friday. Ours was high score of 21 squads with 444/500 and that Model 12 placed 4th of 105 shooters. Love to see the raised eyebrows and looks of shooters with expensive competition o/u and gas guns. :whistle:

Well done Frank. Once again we all know it's not the arrow, although that arrow is a classic.:bowdown:

[Frank Srebro]

Well done Frank. Once again we all know it's not the arrow, although that arrow is a classic.:bowdown:

Thanks Daryl. Most of us have heard that dictum many times and while largely true its corollary is that no well practiced Indian can shoot well with a crooked arrow or while using a bow that's intimidating or s/he has little confidence in. :nono:

Regarding vintage repeating shotguns, to my thinking there's nothing more reliable, naturally pointing and sexy looking than a Model 12 with a Simmons vent rib. 70+ years and counting for Simmons doing ribs.

[Larry Stauch]

The little 20 is a honey. I like the Auto-5s too and the engraved Model 11s.
Remington could really doll a gun up with fantastic engraving when they wanted to.
*
*
*
*

[Mike Franzen]

The best gun I ever shot was a black diamond model 1912. Straight stock and 30” bbl fit me like it was a part of my body. Sadly I sold that gun and list it was one of my biggest regrets. I like the M42’s with the corn cob forends. I collected 410 and 22 single shots for awhile but have sold most of them. Parker’s get the nod exclusively today although a M12 like Franks 20 gauge would be impossible to resist.

[Craig Larter]

Just picked up a Remington Model 11F, I believe Runge engraved. It has a second 32 inch barrel. Gun is early 1930's

[Brian Dudley]

Looks like a nice one!

[Frank Cronin]

Congrats Craig on a fine gun. The sighting plane on a 32" barrel on a M11 is longer than a 34" double gun. I have a M11 20ga with 32" barrel and I compared it next to my 34" Parker. Looking forward seeing some pics of harvested ducks with your new Remington.

[Larry Stauch]

That is a beautiful gun Craig. Remington could really make some fantastic guns when they wanted to. :bowdown:

[Bill Murphy]

I have some early Ulrich engraved Model 12 Pigeon Grades and the Remingtons have it all over the Winchesters in the engraving department, although the Ulrich guns are nicer than the later Kusmit examples. I cowrote an article for the first quarter 2015 Remington Society Journal about my Model 10F owned previously by John Phillip Sousa. Oddly, the article included some nice pictures, unusual for me. The engraving is a similar pattern to the 11Fs pictured by Kevin and Craig. I also have a 10E that is every bit as nice as the 10F and with way better wood. Both are 32", 26" two barrel sets. Another of my favorite non SxSs is John Phillip Sousa's Lindner Daly Sextuple trap I wrote about in Double Gun Journal Summer 2013, also with pictures. Who said Murphy never posts pictures? I also love my Model 11 and Browning squarebacks, but I don't have any engraved examples, but I'm looking. My favorite Model 11 is a rare mint 20 gauge Skeet with factory beavertail. Another Model 11 20 is a round top conversion done in the forties, probably by Griffin and Howe. I've only seen one other, but it had a cracked receiver so I lost interest. It was a real tragedy because it was an F Grade. Today, I would rescue that gun, have it welded and reengraved.

[Bill Murphy]

My favorite Browning non SxS is my early thirties Auto-5 with a vintage Bert Parsons nine shot magazine which extends about half way up the polished aluminum Cutts Compensator with matching aluminum spreader tube. This is just the gun for a classic Southern quail hunt.

[Daryl Corona]

With all due respect..... classic southern quail hunt= two barrels, preferably SxS.:)

[Larry Stauch]

My favorite Browning non SxS is my early thirties Auto-5 with a vintage Bert Parsons nine shot magazine which extends about half way up the polished aluminum Cutts Compensator with matching aluminum spreader tube. This is just the gun for a classic Southern quail hunt.

And just when you think you know someone:eek:

[Dave Noreen]

Speaking of Runge engraved Remingtons, What is up with the "Runge engraved Model 17F" I mentioned earlier, Lot #2287, that is in the upcoming Poulin auction? The Model 17 last appeared in the 1932 Remington catalog, when Bob Runge was sweeping floors at Meriden.

https://poulinantiques.hibid.com/catalog/247207/fall-2020-firearms-auction/?q=2287&ipp=100

When serial number 15213 was made, Bob Runge was likely still in short pants.

[Craig Larter]

Dave what years did Loy engrave for Remington??

[Dave Noreen]

Info from Gene Myszkowski of The Remington Society --

Joe Loy remained foreman of the checkering and engraving department until his retirement from Remington May 1, 1940. According to an internal Remington memo 1/30/1970 from Sam Alvis, Remington Museum Curator, Carl Ennis reported that Joe Loy did most of the high grade Model 32s.

Carl Ennis graduated from Ilion High School in 1933 and went to work as a night security guard at Remington August 27, 1934. He was offered an engraving apprenticeship under Joe Loy some time in 1935 and left Remington in late 1936 or early 1937 to continue his training at Parker Gun Works in Meriden, CT. He returned six months later. He would have been an apprentice or at most a journeyman engraver when he returned.

The Runges -Robert R, (father) and Robert P. (son) did not come to Ilion, NY until late 1937 when Remington moved production of Parker shotguns to the main Remington plant there. Remington acquired Parker shotguns June 1, 1934. Robert P. or Bob (son) would have been an apprentice or at most a journeyman engraver when he moved to Ilion. Robert R.(father) would have been a master engraver on the same level as Joe Loy when he moved to Ilion. He most likely worked on the Parker shotguns being made in Ilion.

[Bill Murphy]

OK, Dave, after all that information, who do you think engraved the Model 17 that will be auctioned soon?

[Dave Noreen]

I don't know. Gene's book isn't out yet.

[Shane Rhodes]

I picked up a Remington Model 32 this year. It’s a Skeet model with 20, 28, and .410 barrels built at Simmons. It is a really fun fun to shoot and I used it on Opening Day of dove season this year. First two shots with it at doves were a double! Unfortunately, the gun outperformed the shooter from that point forward!

[charlie cleveland]

great gun...I like the 3 barrel set up.....charlie