Gunning Snipe on the Gulf Coast 1901

[Dave Noreen]

Was sorting some of the litter in my computer room this morning and came up with this from Sporting Life, March 16, 1901 --

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This is a decade or so earlier then what I think of as the first heyday of the 3-inch 20-gauge.

[Mills Morrison]

That is very interesting! You don't see much on early snipe shooting, outside of J J Pringle's book.

[Kevin McCormack]

That is very interesting! You don't see much on early snipe shooting, outside of J J Pringle's book.

Pringle's book is indeed fascinating and on of the few singular treatises on snipe other than Worth Matthewson's 'Reflections on Snipe.

[Mills Morrison]

One of these days I want to get a first edition. Not for $7500 though

[Dean Romig]

I really like the paintings by A.B. Frost of snipe shooting in the marsh from boats poled by guides. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that some of those fellows caught some bird shot from time to time.





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[Mills Morrison]

I love A. B. Frost. Also Thomas Eakins' "Pushing for Rail" is one of my favorites.

[Kevin McCormack]

Both A.B. Frost and Thomas Eakins depicted shooting railbirds (not snipe) from rail skiffs poled across the marsh. (Snipe can be walked up in flooded fields or slackwater adjacent to marshes, but you can only very rarely wade for any rail I know of except maybe Clapper or King rail due to the texture of the marsh. I became obsessed with Sora rail hunting in the early 1990s and hunted them on the Maurice ("Morris") River in NJ and the upper Patuxent River below Lower Marlboro MD, both rail shooting strongholds from the 1880s.

I once drove all the way to Philadelphia (around 3 hrs. from my home) in subzero cold just to see Thomas Eakins' original painting that Mills mentioned (below). It depicts rail shooting on the Delaware River below Port Penn just southeast of Philadelphia. It was one of an exhibit of 113 of Eakins' original works, all assembled from private donors for a special exhibit at the Philadelphia Museum of Art. It was more than worth the drive.

The second picture depicts the modern version: brother Tom goes to the ready as he and pusher Jack Smith enter a rice 'meadow' on the Maurice River near Port Elizabeth, NJ. And for those who just 'have to know', Tom's gun is a 28" VH 28 gauge Parker!).

[Dean Romig]

I’m curious how one is able to find downed birds in such marsh tangles?





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[Kevin McCormack]

[QUOTE=Dean Romig;312300]I’m curious how one is able to find downed birds in such marsh tangles?


Dean, attached is a shot of some typical styles of markers and a tiny dip net used to retrieve downed birds. The markers are thrown as close to the downed birds as possible then the skiff is poled to the site and the search begins. As many as 4 or 5 birds may jump within the length of the boat, so bright visible markers are a must in locating dead birds. Some guides simply use bright yellow or chartreuse tennis balls - not very nostalgic but very effective!

[Dean Romig]

Thanks very much Kevin - that makes perfect sense.





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[Harry Collins]

Papa said it was most fun on a high tide with a full moon. I suppose spring tides made the pushing easy as well as spotting the downed birds.

[Garth Gustafson]

I couldn't resist bringing this Sept rail hunting story back to the top. A good chuckle for sure.

http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24252&highlight=merrymeeting

[Robbie Payne]

Stumbled across this thread and loved every minute of it...here are a few pics from this past season.

Commonly considered a fool’s errand and snipe hunting a great practical joke but I can assure you it’s real and anything but a joke! Miles through coastal marshes and sporty shooting is required to scratch out a few of these dainty migratory beauties.

“I won’t require a lullaby to be put to sleep.”

[John Davis]

I love to chase snipe!

[Bob Hayes]

Awesome bird that is severely underrated

[John Marscher]

96877

96878

Sure do miss hunting them, and burning for them.

[Will Gurton]

Love Snipe!

Thanks for not banning me!

Will

[Bill Murphy]

Whoa. What a squareback, Will. Tell us about it.

[Will Gurton]

Thanks Bill,

It is a circa 1910 production Remington Autoloading Shotgun Grade No.5 (Expert).

Two barrels 28" SR Cylinder with Twin Ivories and a later Remington Factory added 30" VR Full.

Came out of upper Indiana in a Red Head 2 barrel leather case.

It has good dimensions and just the right amount of wear to be steady in the field.

Will

[Dean Romig]

At a gun show about ten years ago I saw a Browning A-5 with about ther same amount of engraving coverage - beautiful old gun with some honest wear that somebody had cut the barrel to 22" and mounted rifle sights on it to make it a deer gun... what a horrible shame.





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[John Allen]

I like the final comment that misses were the fault of the gunner not the gun. How true that is.

[Russell E. Cleary]

There is a chapter on rail gunning skiffs in the book THE SEA BRIGHT SKIFF AND OTHER SHORE BOATS, by Peter J. Guthorn, Rutgers University, 1971; updated in 1982.

Quote:

“The rail does not fly high or fast so the range is less than twenty yards. Even so, the rail can be an elusive target. Guns range from 410 to 12 gauge, usually cylinder bored doubles. The more proficient gunners favor the smaller bore pieces. As gunning is limited to about two hours at each flood, downed birds are not immediately retrieved, but their location is marked.”

Guthorn references Thomas Eakins and his 1874 painting, THE ARTIST AND HIS FATHER HUNTING REED BIRDS (copied below), saying “Thomas is shown in the stern poling while Benjamin, his father, stands forward with gun ready.”

[Russell E. Cleary]

Here is another, and more chromatic, rail gunning painting that Guthorn references in his book, by this top-tier American artist: WILL SCHUSTER AND BLACK MAN GOING SHOOTING, Thomas Eakins; 1876.

[Stan Hillis]

Pringle's book is an amazing account of twenty years of snipe shooting. The numbers he took during the late 1800s in Louisiana are staggering. A few times he topped 300 birds per day.

[Bob Hayes]

Snipe returned this year again but not in the numbers as last year.Still good numbers.
Last Sunday we had a good shoot with a few limits in a morning.

[Scott Gentry]

This guy came into a corn field during a winter dove hunt, what a surprise.

[Bob Hayes]

Wonder what he was thinking, where he was going?

[Scott Gentry]

I wondered that also, the field is next to a River so I guess he was following the River. He was pretty high and I originally thought it was a woodcock until it hit the ground.

[CraigThompson]

I’ve never to my knowledge seen a live snipe , fired at one etc . I’m curiouse how are they as table fare and what kind of flavor do they have if cooked to taste the natural flavor ?

[Will Gurton]

Dollar is that a Cashmore?

Will

[Bob Hayes]

I forget that's a clients gun I'll have to ask.I know it was his mothers and he is well into his 70's.
As for taste I like them when cooked rare.Breats is dark and legs are white meat.Similar to woodcock.

[Chris Pope]

I’ve never to my knowledge seen a live snipe , fired at one etc . I’m curiouse how are they as table fare and what kind of flavor do they have if cooked to taste the natural flavor ?

A few of us old guys like to hunt snipe in NH. The season opens the 15th of Sept and we view it as the equivalent of MLB's "spring training" prior to the opening of woodcock and grouse on Oct 1st.. It's a perfect time to let the dogs and the hunters get back into the routine of real field work only the covert allows full view of the dog and the birds when we put them up.
As for taste, I find them to be very different than woodcock. They have a much lighter flavor but still tasty none the less.
Absolutely love snipe hunting and can't believe other upland hunters don't partake. I think there's hardly a state in the US without them.

[Garry L Gordon]

The history of snipe hunting in the US is interesting. Once a common, and much sought after, game bird, their numbers plummeted from market gunning (along with other shore birds). Our management practice back then was to shut down all hunting (instead of the current practice of altering season length and bag limits). In the interim, the country lost a generation of potential snipe hunters, and the interest in snipe never caught on again to the degree it once enjoyed.

The bag limits and seasons are now generous. I usually try to find some here in Missouri a day or two every season, but I don't really have much in the way of good migration habitat to hunt in my area. I know they come through, getting up some from wet, harvested cornfields while quail hunting. Duck hunters in the area often report them, too.

I went to a marshy spot the day before our firearms deer season this year specifically looking for snipe. I found none, and when I arrived back at the parking area, I met some out-of-state deer hunters talking with a Conservation Dept. employee. When I told them I was snipe hunting, I got some might suspicious looks.

Such is snipe hunting in Missouri.:)

[Chris Pope]

Hope I'm not violating the "getting off subject" protocol but a quick snipe story... I had the opportunity to volunteer for a weekend at a NAVHDA test in SW Montana a few years ago. The judges were running a test where dogs were working a field for planted birds and being judged on ability to find, point and be steady to flush, shot, and fall of the bird. A young GSP was working well in front of his handler and came all the way to the end of this very big field and went on point about 40 yards from where we bird planters were hiding. A fellow volunteer commented that the dog clearly was pointing something he shouldn't be because we hadn't planted any birds there.
I remarked quite the contrary, the pup had pointed a snipe that I saw fly in there a half hour earlier. Poor dog got called off the point by an exasperated handler. My fellow test volunteer, a native Montanan, wasn't aware they even had snipe there...

[Daryl Corona]

A few years back they had record flooding in central SD. Duck were everywhere and so were the snipe. Every field we walked held them and if you have ever been to SD, the wind never stops. Talk about a challenging target I can't even describe their flight path. What a blast.

[John Dallas]

Only snipe hunt I was ever on was 70 years ago at summer camp at night with a pillow case

[Bob Hayes]

Thing about snipe is generally they want to flush into the wind.Walking with the wind can be challenging.Birds will flush straight away and you'll really get to see the erratic flight path.Walking with the wind the birds will generally flush left or right trying to catch the wind for lift.Snipe wings are swept not like a woodcock or quail so they want wind for lift.
Either way they still are great game birds.

[Milton C Starr]

Here is another, and more chromatic, rail gunning painting that Guthorn references in his book, by this top-tier American artist: WILL SCHUSTER AND BLACK MAN GOING SHOOTING, Thomas Eakins; 1876.

Heres another one of his works I saw recently about rail hunting.

[Dean Romig]

I have always loved that one Milton. But then I love anything painted by Eakins.





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[Milton C Starr]

I have always loved that one Milton. But then I love anything painted by Eakins.





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Im heavily interested in hunting from the 1870s-1910s. A bit off topic but are/were there any books from back then about hunting the methods or practices used. I love the aesthetics as well of that time period before gaudy camo.

[Milton C Starr]

Being near the Gulf Coast I like reading about things like this the Gulf is about 70 miles down river from here.

[Garry L Gordon]

Im heavily interested in hunting from the 1870s-1910s. A bit off topic but are/were there any books from back then about hunting the methods or practices used. I love the aesthetics as well of that time period before gaudy camo.

There is a great deal of sporting literature for the period you mention here, Milton. On the earlier side is Carolina Sports by Land and Water, by William Elliott, which covers different types of hunting (but mostly big game). If you are really interested, let me know and I can work up a list for you. Be careful, though, collecting sporting literature is akin to collecting big bore guns -- addictive.:)

On the topic of Eakins; I taught 19th Century art history for many years, so I'm happy to see folks here show an interest in the works of, especially, American artists like Eakins. I'd recommend Winslow Homer to you. He is most certainly not a sporting artist per se, but his many paintings of hunting and fishing are incredible. BTW, he also was an "art correspondent" during the Civil War, and I would bet you would enjoy those works of his also.

[Dean Romig]

I especially enjoy Homer’s paintings from when he spent time in Maine’s Great North Woods.





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[Mills Morrison]

Eakins . . . Homer . . . Frost . . . All some of my favorites.

[Russell E. Cleary]

Evidently the tradition of rail shooting from poled boats continues in tidal regions along the U. S. East coast, from Maine to Texas.

Here is an article "The Incredible, Edible Rail", by Stephen D. Carpenteri, from UPLAND ALMANAC, Spring 2020.


https://uplandalmanac.com/the-incredible-edible-rail[/url]

[Mills Morrison]

I have a few friends who do it around here.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I've got a lead on a late season shoot for king rails, I found the guy too late this year but I'm pushing to get on the books for next. Kings is my last rail, I've killed the other three legal species.

[Milton C Starr]

There is a great deal of sporting literature for the period you mention here, Milton. On the earlier side is Carolina Sports by Land and Water, by William Elliott, which covers different types of hunting (but mostly big game). If you are really interested, let me know and I can work up a list for you. Be careful, though, collecting sporting literature is akin to collecting big bore guns -- addictive.:)

On the topic of Eakins; I taught 19th Century art history for many years, so I'm happy to see folks here show an interest in the works of, especially, American artists like Eakins. I'd recommend Winslow Homer to you. He is most certainly not a sporting artist per se, but his many paintings of hunting and fishing are incredible. BTW, he also was an "art correspondent" during the Civil War, and I would bet you would enjoy those works of his also.

That would be much appreciated, would you happen to know if there are any books on the contrast between sports hunters and market hunters of the time? I have also been wondering are there any detailed books about Grover Cleveland and his passion for waterfowling? I am looking up Winslow Homer now, I particularly like this one.

[Garry L Gordon]

That would be much appreciated, would you happen to know if there are any books on the contrast between sports hunters and market hunters of the time? I have also been wondering are there any detailed books about Grover Cleveland and his passion for waterfowling? I am looking up Winslow Homer now, I particularly like this one.

Cleveland wrote a book on hunting (and it's pretty good, too!). I'm not sure what you mean by the "contrast between sports hunters and market hunters," but there were certainly conservation minded sporting authors and editors of sporting periodicals (Wilbur F. Parker, Sr. was a very early advocate for conservation who decried market gunning. You might be interested in my article on him that was in a recent Parker Pages.)

There is a more recent book, The Outlaw Gunner, that has accounts of market gunning, especially for waterfowl.

[John Davis]

The line between sport hunter and market hunter is often blurry. As an example, Fred Kimble has sometimes been referred to as a market hunter. This really is not accurate. He and his group of hunting friends would often go off on 2 to 3 week expeditions and return to Peoria with a thousand or so birds. They would sell these to the local markets in order to defray the cost of the hunting trip. They hunted for "sport", not to make a living. But their kind of sport hunting was expensive.

[Milton C Starr]

Cleveland wrote a book on hunting (and it's pretty good, too!). I'm not sure what you mean by the "contrast between sports hunters and market hunters," but there were certainly conservation minded sporting authors and editors of sporting periodicals (Wilbur F. Parker, Sr. was a very early advocate for conservation who decried market gunning. You might be interested in my article on him that was in a recent Parker Pages.)

There is a more recent book, The Outlaw Gunner, that has accounts of market gunning, especially for waterfowl.

By contrast I meant if there was ethics debates between the market hunters and sports hunters and if there are books on that specific subject. What is the name of Clevelands book?

[Garry L Gordon]

By contrast I meant if there was ethics debates between the market hunters and sports hunters and if there are books on that specific subject. What is the name of Clevelands book?

Milton, Cleveland's book is called, Fishing and Shooting Sketches. As for books that debate market v. sport hunting, I can't say that I recall any. There are some good scholarly works on the evolution of sport hunting that give a good account of how we evolved (we hunters in America) from shooting for the market to having rules of conduct for hunting (like there are in other sports, thus the term "sport" hunting). One of the best books in my opinion on this is Hunting and the American Imagination by Daniel Herman. It's a pretty dense book, I believe his PhD dissertation, but it is very thorough and has complete annotations for its sources, including lots of primary ones. It would be a great way to track down more of the kinds of issues I think you are after.

[Kevin McCormack]

Heres another one of his works I saw recently about rail hunting.

The description for this print is mismatched; the title of the print is "Whistling for Plover" by Eakins. Notice the stick-up decoys; they are priceless today. Most were wood but several decoy makers offered sets of hollow, half-body tin decoys boxed in a wooden carrier. Complete sets command unbelievable prices at auction.

[Dean Romig]

I don’t know if this stick-up decoy is old or new… my mother picked it up for me about 40 years ago.

Looks like W. Ray Freden…?
And either B3 or 133 or… 83… ?

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[Dean Romig]

Did a bit of research on W. Ray Freden and learned he lived in Scituate Ma. and worked in furniture making. He first advertised his shore bird carvings in 1988 but had been carving for years before advertising.
I suspect the one my mother gave me was from before he began advertising them.
Here are a couple more of his carvings.

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