For the LeFever Guys

[Joe Graziano]

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/879014817

Is it even possible this is an original gun, as the seller presents?

[Bill Davis]

Not a chance! Total redo.

[Bill Murphy]

The gun was sold at a local auction within the last two months. I don't know the price.

[Brian Dudley]

Wow... I dont know what to say. The seller must be pinecreek daves brother. And he thinks it is so special he has it listed two times on GB.
A very good gun was really molested to make a truly “one of a kind” gun.

[Chris Robenalt]

It reminds me of the Crescent 410 someone tried to pass off as an LC Smith 410 maybe 7 years ago on gunbroker. They went as far as engraving LC SMITH on the side plates!
Chris

[Nick de Guerre]

Wow. Just...WOW. Don't even know where to start. Brian, what is it with crazy guys and "nickel" or "silver breech" guns???

First Pine Creek Looney Tunes, then that snot nose child on the LAC, now this guy.

The rule of thumb about length of advert definitely applies...the longer the story has to be, the less interested you should be. The only thing it's missing is a personal family story...perhaps involving a relative who used to hunt with Grover Cleveland? Or won the gun at a game of cards with Dwight Eisenhower?

Hey, at least the engraving is "unmarried." It will stay sharper that way.

NDG

[Nick de Guerre]

BTW...are there actually experienced gun sellers who think that barrels come from the factory with a hole in the bottom rib?

NDG

[Drew Hause]

Remarkable "Pine Creek Dave pre-production special order" BTFE

Dr Bob could no doubt help re: Lefever but the earliest double gun (not SBT) BTFEs were:
Hunter Arms 1920 as part of the "Trap Package"
Baker Expert Grade and Paragon Double Barrel Trap Gun with the "Baker Perfect Grip" Fore-End c. 1921
Parker 1923
Ithaca 1925
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=487249

Scroll down here for Dave's special order one-of-a kind 1901 Smith BTFE, according to his grandpappy, Bill Brophy and George Bird Evans
http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23107&start=0

[Bob Decker]

I am not sure when the disclaimer "I am not an expert...." became a license to publish total BS, but that's today's universe of alternative facts. We have no evidence of a Lefever Arms Co (the real one, not the Ithaca Nitro Co.) producing a Beaver Tail Forend on a double gun. Even claims that this may be an Ithaca assembled gun wouldn't hold up when Ithaca was not known to make BTFEs before 1925.

[Michael Kitterman]

I am a Lefever collector (own 5) and have never seen a Beaver Tail Forend on one. Pretty yes, original no. I own a DS that is said to have belonged to a Lefever family member, has much better original wood than I have ever seen on another DS.

[Brian Dudley]

Pretty? I am not even sure about that...

I would be interested to see the wood on that DS. I may wager I have you beat with one that I own.

[Michael Kitterman]

I have no doubt of that after seeing some of your work on here thru the years, you have an eye for beautiful wood. Mine has nice fiddleback and about 75% of original case colors. I can't post any pics, would you believe I don't own a cell phone.

[Michael Kitterman]

My DS with the fiddleback is a 12 ga, I also have a 16 ga XX frame DS that had a beavertail forend. Would like to see some pics of yours.

[nolanwandrews]

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/1035/700/two-engraved-lefever-arms-damascus-side-by-side-shotguns
I purchased 2 Lefevers at auction yesterday, serials #18915 and #44041. I bid online and really won't see the quality and condition until they are shipped to me, but was wondering what you gentleman had to say about them. One of the stocks are pinned so may just be a shooter for me.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/1035/700/two-engraved-lefever-arms-damascus-side-by-side-shotguns

[Daryl Corona]

Post your question here
https://www.lefevercollectors.com/

It's difficult to say until they are in hand but an E grade, as all Lefevers of that era, are wonderful guns. The fellows over on the Lefever forum are quite willing to help out. They look nice.

[nolanwandrews]

I will do that, thank you!

[Brian Dudley]

They both look like decent guns that have a good amount of original condition remaining. Their photos are so poor (in that only overall views are shown), so it is very hard to tell any more than that.

[nolanwandrews]

I know, it's a bit daunting bidding on guns you can't put your hands on but fingers crossed they turn out nice! Thank you

[Nick de Guerre]

Nolan,

Congrats on two Lefevers. I have to smirk with Rock Island and their pics. It's like offering a house for sale and only posting a pic of the property from 10k feet overhead. Buying guns there is like an arranged marriage done at a distance...with binoculars. "OK well, she SOUNDS nice, and her silhouette looks attractive...what the heck."

Here's what I can offer:

#18,915 went at Poulan's a few years ago, noted with cracks behind the plates. That explains your pin.
#44,041 was with Puglisi a while back...here's the link with pics. Very nice! I wonder if the wood was "freshened." A solid gun, either way.
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/detail.cfm?gun_id=101254606

Brian D. might better opine on whether the wood looks original...

Welcome to Lefever-dom!

NDG

[nolanwandrews]

Nick, thanks for the info and the welcome. I hope my brides are even prettier in person!

I'll have to post some better pics once they are in.

[todd allen]

Pretty? I am not even sure about that...

I would be interested to see the wood on that DS. I may wager I have you beat with one that I own.

We can't have a wood measuring contest without pictures.

[Chris Robenalt]

Those E grades look great Nolan! I have an EE that was given to me by a friend. I told him I would bring it back to life and return in to the fields. I replaced springs, found missing parts, checkered, then hanb rubbed the finish. It looks like a well loved 100 or so year old gun. Its a fine shooter with her 28" IC & FULL barrels. There's nothing wrong with " just a shooter ". I say use and enjoy those great LeFevers!
Chris

[Frank Srebro]

Quick pic of a 12-gauge H Grade Lefever with ejectors taken today while at Rock Mountain. Made about 1902 as best I can figure and her full tapered chokes measure 14 and 25 points, about LM and I-Mod. Nice combo. The ejectors are in perfect time and throw empties about 10 feet ..... much to the amazement of my shooting buds. We let one squad jump around us and the raised eyebrows were priceless when the one gent commented on the twist barrels. :)

[Daryl Corona]

So that's the newest addition? Great condition. How long are the tubes?

[Frank Cronin]

Nice Lefever & shooting Frank! Is the forend escutcheon metal, a black bakelite dog's head, or just a plain smooth black one? There was a thread in the old Lefever forum on H grades on this subject. The one on mine is smooth. Nobody knows really why all the variations. Just curious.

[Nick de Guerre]

It is not Bakelite, which wasn't invented until 1907.

The material is gutta percha, a resin from Southeast Asia, which when warmed would be formed, stamped, etc. Then it would harden.

In that serial range, H grade guns were often seen with a plain black insert. And G and F grade guns were often seen with a dog's head stamped in that.

But variations abound.

NDG

[Chris Robenalt]

My EE 12 I brought back to life and returned to the field.

[Frank Srebro]

Thanks guys. This new to me H Grade with ejectors is a 30" gun and has a steel forend escutcheon that's devoid of engraving, same as another H Grade/extractor gun I own. Also, a G Grade was facing me this morning as I opened the safe and it has an unengraved steel escutcheon. All three Lefevers are about the same 1901-03 vintage.

Just an aside here, that Dan Lefever ejector system is ingenious and uses the mainsprings (hammer springs) to power the ejectors; there are no separate ejector springs. I've now owned seven Syracuse Lefevers with ejectors and all of them worked perfectly and put quite a kick on the spent hulls. Understandably these ejector guns are a little harder to cock on closing than extractor guns.