Poll....who is hunting with small gauge for up-land birds?

[Kenny Graft]

Not counting ducks and turkeys what is your favorite gauge? I have settled on the 16 for most wild bird hunting and enjoy 28gauge for woodcock. When you hunt long and hard to find wild birds you don't want a gun that will not do the job at hand...Guns must be light and pleasing to the eye, don't need a 12 gauge either. No contraptions or cross eyed stack barrels, SXS guns for me!!! Like the men who hunted at the turn of the century. See the bird and shoot it down.....take pics, pet the dog, smile and be happy...(-: Pictures of my 16-s and Gordon setter dog, grouse in the cast iron. Life is good...Ask any real upland hunter! SXS ohio

[Bob Jurewicz]

I hunt Pheasant with a 16, grouse and quail with a 20 or 28. I have been known to use a 410 on all from time to time with careful shot selection.
Bob Jurewicz

[Phil Yearout]

I've been a 16ga guy since I was a kid; my dad's gun was a 16 and I didn't know there was anything else :)!

[Mills Morrison]

16, 20 and 28 for upland birds.

[Daryl Corona]

Bird work is about evenly split between the 20 and the 28. It all depends on my mood. Doesn't matter whether the bird is a pheasant, quail, woodcock, grouse or dove.

[Kenny Graft]

I will admit that I have shot and killed wild roosters at 40 yards with a 20 but that is not the norm, a 16 with field loads is a better performer for me. Its as good as it gets. A centered shot will work from most 28 gauge and up but any marginal off center and you need more bullets and fuller patterns. 16 has 1 1/8 oz of shot, fuller patterns and gets the job done better with less cripples and still light and light to carry. Six and 1/2 lbs is about all I want to tote and 6lbs is even is better....(-:

[Stan Hillis]

I use all gauges (well......... .410, 28, 20, 16 and 12) for upland birds .............. from .410s in the early dove and quail season to 12s (only occasionally) at the very end of dove season for very high flying, migratory birds. I could probably do everything I do with the 1 oz. 12s with my 16s, but I just like to use them all.

SRH

[Gary Laudermilch]

For the most part nothing but 20's for me. The only exception is I occasionally use my 1 frame twist 12 ga. It is as light as my 20's and I only shoot 7/8 oz loads so it is essentially a 20.

[Ed Norman]

I went exclusively to 16 gauge side by sides, I have 2 fox and a parker, I still have a nice 20 gauge over/under with screw in chokes, but hardly use it. I just like hunting with an older side by side like I did when I was a kid.

[John Davis]

If you are talking wild birds, 12 and 16. If you are talking pen raised, 16 or 20.

[Ted Hicks]

I've been on a 20 gauge kick for years. I will add a 28 gauge when the right one comes along at the right time. I break out one of the 12 gauges, usually an open-choked one, when I get into a rut and can't hit anything to try and get some confident back.

[Garry L Gordon]

I've killed more wild birds -- especially Bobs, grouse and woodcock -- with a 28 gauge which I used almost exclusively for almost 20 years. Now, I use small gauges almost exclusively for upland birds, but alternate among 28s, 20s, and 16s. When I went out west for prairie grouse and Huns, I used a 16. When I really want to shoot a pheasant, I'll take a heavier 16 or a light 12. I don't take long shots, but wild pheasants are tough birds.

[CraigThompson]

Hmmm recently it’s been the 28 for quail and soon dove I hope . Last couple years preserve pheasents have been 16 and 20 . I’m booked for three driven Pheasent deals at Christmas Hill and plan on using a VH 16 30” F&F in December , a VHE 20 28” M&F for January and my little VH 28 26” F&F for February . Have somewhere between 2 and 4 quail deals booked for Rasawek Preserve this season and don’t see myself using anything other than the VH 28 or my Superposed 28 28” S&S . FWIW I have used a 10 gauge 2 7/8” a few times in the late December dove season . I have a semi recent acquisition I wouldn’t mind plunking a couple dove with a PH 10 3 frame 32” that’s something along the lines of IC&M . Gun has very good dimensions and does amazingly well on the skeet field if I’m in A game mode . I think I’ve loaded close to 7,500 12 gauge rounds in the last two weeks but to be honest I shoot a 12 not that much , might have to change that . Well atleast at the sporting clays places and maybe later in the early dove season .

[Phillip Carr]

I do most of my wild quail hunting with a 20
Gauge over dogs.

[Chad Hefflinger]

A GH 16 and a VHE 20 for Most of my grouse and woodcock hunting. On occasion I will shoot a 16 VHE skeet gun on a nice day and a 28 gauge H&R double hammer gun at least once a year in woodcock cover.

[Brett Hoop]

I’m a dummy, I shoot 7/8 oz in both 20 and 16 gauge. I decide what gun I want to hunt depending on chokes and weight, sometimes barrel length. For the grouse and woodcock hunting over a Setter, 90% of the time it’s a 26 3/4” cut barrel open choked 20. In part because I can handle it with my right hand and move cover out of the way with my left. Inevitably the places we find grouse are thick and a deer trail is a luxury.

Pheasant with a flushing Springer Spaniel a 16ga with full and improved mod barrels 28”.
Or a 20ga full/mod.

For me it’s sort of a 308 vs 30/06 thing and more than likely comes down to what gun I feel like using that day. Sometimes the weather plays a part also.
Or I can get real scientific and see my choice made by how many and what gauge are still in the vest.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

I used to hunt exclusively with 16's. My first 2 SXSs were my VH 16 1 frame and a Fox SW 16. Lately, I've gone over to the 20 ga for grouse, and will take 3 20's with me to the UP. I will take 16's for wild pheasant, bit will use both gages at home for pheasant. I've just never been bitten by the 28 ga bug, and rarely shoot my little Ugartechea 28.

[ED J, MORGAN]

I do like John Davis. 12, 16 or 16 , 20

[Dean Romig]

For me it’s 16, 20, and 28 but mostly 28 these last 10 or so years. My first 28 was a straight stocked Repro, IC/Mod with double triggers. The big deal came along when I bought one for Kathy with Q1/Q2 chokes and a beavertail. What a great combo that was.... then I graduated to original 28 gauge Parkers and haven’t looked back.
I have several 16’s both hammer guns as well as hammerless and I have 1 20 gauge DH with 28” Damascus barrels.

They’re all fun!





.

[Paul Ehlers]

I split my time in the uplands between the 16 & 20ga. I've said it many times that if I had to be limited to one gun for upland work it would be a 16ga.

Occasionally I'll carry a one framed DH-12 that I bought from a member here. It's one of those Damascus barreled light weight beauties that only Parker could produce, coming in a 6lb 8oz for a 12ga. Other than it feeling a little wider in the hand when carrying it, I can hardly tell I'm not carrying a 20ga.

[Steven Groh]

16 for wild pheasants and prairie grouse. 28 for doves and preserve birds. 20 just for fun - whenever!

[Mark Garrett]

I mostly shoot a 16ga and sometimes a short 10

[George Davis]

16 gauge except late season prairie birds ( pheasant, sharptail) then it's a 12 even with great dogs sometimes you shots can be a little longer.

[Dean Romig]

Askins’ opinion was exactly that - his opinion. And it certainly doesn’t fit the way I like to hunt and shoot and doesn’t even remotely define a significant number of us.





.

[Daniel Carter]

Gun writers are paid to have opinions and to get paid they need a lot of them. They change them like socks and tout the latest fad as the world beater that it is.
We shoot our 100 year old technology and smile.

[Mills Morrison]

Lots of quail plantations require either a 20 or 28 double gun these days. I saw them shut down a guy with a 12 last year.

They ought to allow 16s in my opinion and why they don't I do not know.

[Craig Larter]

20 gauge 26" barrels for me either Fox or Parker everything from wild Pheasants in SD, wild quail in TX to woodcock and grouse closer to home. The Parker is 26" O frame and weights 6 lbs 12 oz. It has some heft which keeps my swing going on wild pheasants. The Fox is 5 lbs 14 oz and more open chokes, my grouse and woodcock gun.
Big ducks are a different story strictly a 12 ga or 10 ga affair for me.

[Dave Noreen]

I've shot wild Pheasants with every gauge from my 12-gauge 3-inch Super-Fox to the 28-gauge, and I've shot some Doves and Quail with the .410-bore. For most of my years the great bulk of my Pheasants and prairie grouse have been with "Meat-in-the-Pot" my 1914 vintage A-Grade, Ansley H. Fox.

87755

Late years I have shot quite a few with my RBL-16, especially in areas where non-tox is required. Two of my recent acquisitions have been 16-gauges, both of 1941 vintage, a Model 21 Skeet Gun and a 26-inch barrel VHE. Hoping I live long enough to shoot some birds with both.

[Daryl Corona]

Mr. Gietler;

Me thinks you are a troll and as I get older I have absolutely no tolerance for posters like you. Please go away. If you live near me I'd love to challenge you to a shooting match, either live birds or clay targets, you using your BSS 12ga with 1 1/4oz loads (which I'm sure you shoot at everything) and I will take the pitiful 28ga. and proceed to show you just how wrong Askins, and you, are.

BTW; I have a BSS 12ga. and it's a club.

[Keith Doty]

Gentlemen in Texas don't hunt quail with a 12 ga.! I'm a 20 ga. guy for dove and quail mostly. I HAVE, on occasion, pulled out my 30" FxF 1 1/2 VH 12 ga.for those late season high flying doves 'cause it works.
Waterfowl........all's fair. I shoot my 16s a lot over decoys, tend to go to 12 ga. late in the season. Birds are more heavily feathered and sometimes a bit shy and wary. I'm only mad at the geese about once or twice a year anymore. Then it's an Ithica Mag 10 or a 3 1/2 mag 12 ga Winchester.

[Bob Jurewicz]

I hope our PGCA Board does not degrade to the level commonly found on the Doublegunshop Board. Differences of opinion should be recognized and accepted as just that differences of opinion.
I know Mr. Gietler. He is not a troll and does not deserve that kind of treatment for one of his first posts here.
Bob Jurewicz

[Russell E. Cleary]

Lots of quail plantations require either a 20 or 28 double gun these days. I saw them shut down a guy with a 12 last year.

They ought to allow 16s in my opinion and why they don't I do not know.

Thanks, Mills. You have just given me my excuse.

Should I ever be so lucky as to present myself for Southern plantation Quail, I don’t want to be shut out by solely owning side-by-sides in the disallowed 12 and 16 gauges.

And what gun fancier really wants to be on a hunt while shooting a borrowed weapon.

[Mills Morrison]

Always happy to be of service. I will say I want to get a Parker 12 gauge half frame and take it quail hunting. RST 7/8 or 3/4 12 gauge should be just the thing. The type of load used is probably as important as gauge

[todd allen]

I hope our PGCA Board does not degrade to the level commonly found on the Doublegunshop Board. Differences of opinion should be recognized and accepted as just that differences of opinion.
I know Mr. Gietler. He is not a troll and does not deserve that kind of treatment for one of his first posts here.
Bob Jurewicz
Thanks, Bob. I've shot competitively for many years, have made money shooting a12 gauge. I totally get the dominance of the 12 gauge, as an all around gun. I love to hear what people think regarding guns, gauges, etc.
That said, I will be opening our dove season with a .410.
I will pick my shots, and promise to not cripple any game birds.

[allen newell]

16 & 20 parkers

[Zacharysmith]

16's and 20's for me here in NH. Added a 28 to the collection this year and will hopefully be fit when October comes.

[John Davis]

Yes, sub-gauges are fun to shoot and easy to carry. Yes, many of today's put and take quail preserves don't allow anything bigger than a 20 gauge. Why would you when you've either got to literally kick the bird up or send in a flushing dog to get something even close to a covey rise? And yes, sub-gauges seem to be the latest rage among collectors these day's.

But the fact remains that the 12 is and has been for the past 150 years the most popular gauge to shoot. It overtook and supplanted the 10 and it withstood the advent of all other smaller gauges. There is a reason that 99% of all guns used for trap are 12's. If you didn't have sub-gauge events in skeet and sporting clays, the same would be true for those disciplines as well. And with the opening day of dove season just around the corner, a vast majority of the guns you'll see in the field will be 12's.

So to be clear, I love a 16, 20 and 28 gauge as much as anyone. I enjoy shooting them in pursuit of most upland game. But if I'm going to travel a thousand miles to shoot wild birds in South Dakota, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas or anywhere else, I'm probably going to be shooting a 12 gauge.

[Rick Losey]

:corn::corn::corn:
:rolleyes:

season must be getting close, the annual tribal questions begin to show as everyone gets anxious (BTW- the original post was innocent enough)


heck- Bert Spiller the poet laureate of upland hunting hunted grouse with a 10 gauge - must have been as good as 2 20's if he used one

but really, not a gentleman or a real bird hunter unless you agree with a post :shock:


i have an unusual suggestion - why don't we shoot whatever gun we shoot best and concentrate on being sportsman worthy of our game and our dogs

[Harry Neil]

2 16 Gauge Model 12's for nasty weather...you can't hurt them
2 16 Gauge Parkers
1 16/20 Gauge Parker Repro (The 20Gauge barrels killed one Grouse and then were put away) Not the case with the 16's
1 28 Gauge Ithaca 37 (Which is a sweet handling shotgun)
1 20 Gauge Perazzi....For the most part only used for Doves...


They all get shuffled around during a season...

[Harry Neil]

Here are a few more words of wisdom from Askins book The popularity of the 16ga. is about on a par with death and taxes. The 20ga. on the other hand remains fairly popular shooting iron. However, there isnt anything you can do with a 20ga. that cannot be accomplished with twice the efficiency swinging a 12ga. Next we come to the stinking poor 28 and 410 ga.the unparalleled bird cripplers and the most efficient wounder of game. Harry ps. shoot 12 ga.guns, the king of the gauges


Askins obviously spent more time writing than being around good shooters. There are people out there that would let him use a 12 against their 28. At the end of the day he would be looking for someone to pay for an article...

[James L. Martin]

I love and hunt with all gauges , I never understood why it's more sporting to shoot 7/8 oz in a 20ga than in a 12ga. You can shoot 1oz in a 12ga ,16ga, 20ga and 28ga ,why is one more sporting than another? With that said I do more hunting with a 20ga, because they tend to weigh around 6 to 6 1/2 lbs which works best for me.

[Dean Romig]

Bert Spiller the poet laureate of upland hunting hunted grouse with a 10 gauge - must have been as good as 2 20's if he used one.


Spiller only used his Dad's 10 until he could buy a gun of his own which was a 12, then later a 16, (*) finally settling on a 20 gauge VHE that was found for him by his grouse hunting crony Gorham L. "Grampa Grouse" Cross.

(*) Spiller actually ordered a very fine 20 or 28 from a very prestigious American maker, though he never said who it was. But did say he ordered it to be extremely light, hence the barrels were very thin. While crossing a stream on an icy morning he slipped and both he and his little gun went ass over teakettle and were both submerged and the barrels of his pride and joy got severely dented.






.

[Dean Romig]

I like my 12 gauge DH with 30" barrels and enjoy shooting at trap and occasionally at SC but it weighs 8 lbs and is NOT something I want to take (Eastern) upland shooting.






.

[Garry L Gordon]

Hey, this is a question about preferences. We all have them. Share and learn.

[Mills Morrison]

Been reading some books about hunting in the South before the 20th century and 14 gauges seem to have been popular. That is another gauge I want. Thought that was interesting.

[Harry Neil]

Yes, sub-gauges are fun to shoot and easy to carry. Yes, many of today's put and take quail preserves don't allow anything bigger than a 20 gauge. Why would you when you've either got to literally kick the bird up or send in a flushing dog to get something even close to a covey rise? And yes, sub-gauges seem to be the latest rage among collectors these day's.

But the fact remains that the 12 is and has been for the past 150 years the most popular gauge to shoot. It overtook and supplanted the 10 and it withstood the advent of all other smaller gauges. There is a reason that 99% of all guns used for trap are 12's. If you didn't have sub-gauge events in skeet and sporting clays, the same would be true for those disciplines as well. And with the opening day of dove season just around the corner, a vast majority of the guns you'll see in the field will be 12's.

So to be clear, I love a 16, 20 and 28 gauge as much as anyone. I enjoy shooting them in pursuit of most upland game. But if I'm going to travel a thousand miles to shoot wild birds in South Dakota, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas or anywhere else, I'm probably going to be shooting a 12 gauge.

Hard to make that argument for skeet when the TOP skeet shooters are averaging .99% plus with the sub gauges....even with the .410..
International Olympic skeet is shot with a 24gram load and the averages didn't change when they dropped down from the 28gram load..

The target distance for skeet more frequently represents chances in the field.
For the most part it is one pointing ability that determines their success and not the gauge...

And, for those that are willing to pay the additional for TSS shot, any advantage the 12 had is gone. With TSS some are stoning Turkey’s at 40 yards with the 410.. it isn’t you Grandad’s uplands any more..

Trap is a different situation in that the distance is further, which gives an edge to the 12..

[John Davis]

In skeet "Twelve gauge events shall be open to all guns of 12 gauge or smaller, using shot loads not exceeding one and one-eighth ounces." Just curious as to how many top shooters choose to shoot a .410 in a 12 gauge event? Payload has a little something to do with it, whether you are on the line or in the field.

[Rick Losey]

Spiller only used his Dad's 10 until he could buy a gun of his own which was a 12, then later a 16, (*) finally settling on a 20 gauge VHE that was found for him by his grouse hunting crony Gorham L. "Grampa Grouse" Cross.

(*) Spiller actually ordered a very fine 20 or 28 from a very prestigious American maker, though he never said who it was. But did say he ordered it to be extremely light, hence the barrels were very thin. While crossing a stream on an icy morning he slipped and both he and his little gun went ass over teakettle and were both submerged and the barrels of his pride and joy got severely dented. .

of course, i've lost count of the number of times I have read his two Grouse Feathers - most recently the first book just a week ago -

but - simply put - what I said was correct - he did hunt with a 10.

as for me - I do not shoot really light guns well.- my grouse guns go about 6 1/2 and tend to be 16s - the Ithaca Flues 20 I refinished goes close to that and might be the first 20 I shoot well

[Harry Neil]

In skeet "Twelve gauge events shall be open to all guns of 12 gauge or smaller, using shot loads not exceeding one and one-eighth ounces." Just curious as to how many top shooters choose to shoot a .410 in a 12 gauge event? Payload has a little something to do with it, whether you are on the line or in the field.

Well none do, and curious or not you knew that, and you would choose the most extremes to make your point.

However, This NSSA Classification chart is reveling with what the great pointers can do with each gauge.

NSSA CLASSIFICATION TABLES
Revised & Effective April 22, 2014
OPEN INDIVIDUAL CLASSES
Class
12
20
28
.410

AAA*
.9850 & Over
.9825 & Over
.9800 & Over
.9650 & Over

So let’s take 12 to 28, and the difference is 0.005 in hit percentage in favor of the 12 between the two gauges in AAA Class. I guess I have to admit you win.

[Rich Anderson]

Upland guns are special and there is no perfect gun except the next one or your buddy's gun that you covet.I'm a big fan of 16,20 and 28 and admit to owning more of them than I can shoot. My typical trip to the U.P. consists of 8-10 guns for the 5 weeks I'm there. This year will be different in that I'll be just taking long weekends but will alternate between guns and gauges so most get a turn.
My preferred barrel length is 26 and choked IC/M or SKT/SKT. I recently adopted a VHE 20 skeet with a factory vent rib which will get a work out.
I'll hunt a couple of times with a 12 :shock: but in my defense it's a British light game gun and I use RST 2 inch shells with 3/4 oz of 8's. Just like a 28.

[King Brown]

Almost exclusively 20ga SKB o/u Model 500, always with my Lab.

[Mills Morrison]

Upland guns are special and there is no perfect gun except the next one or your buddy's gun that you covet.I'm a big fan of 16,20 and 28 and admit to owning more of them than I can shoot. My typical trip to the U.P. consists of 8-10 guns for the 5 weeks I'm there. This year will be different in that I'll be just taking long weekends but will alternate between guns and gauges so most get a turn.
My preferred barrel length is 26 and choked IC/M or SKT/SKT. I recently adopted a VHE 20 skeet with a factory vent rib which will get a work out.
I'll hunt a couple of times with a 12 :shock: but in my defense it's a British light game gun and I use RST 2 inch shells with 3/4 oz of 8's. Just like a 28.



A friend bought a British 2" 12 which I helped him inspect. He is using it for Woodcock this upcoming season. I want to get a 1/2 frame 12 for my upland hunting arsenal

[Rich Anderson]

Mills the light game gun is less than 6 lbs and is pure joy for a 12. I've used it for grouse, wood cock and quail. It's the only 12 I'll hunt with.

[Mills Morrison]

My friend's was the same way. Really nice gun

[Steven Groh]

Hard to make that argument for skeet when the TOP skeet shooters are averaging .99% plus with the sub gauges....even with the .410..
International Olympic skeet is shot with a 24gram load and the averages didn't change when they dropped down from the 28gram load..

The target distance for skeet more frequently represents chances in the field.
For the most part it is one pointing ability that determines their success and not the gauge...

And, for those that are willing to pay the additional for TSS shot, any advantage the 12 had is gone. With TSS some are stoning Turkey’s at 40 yards with the 410.. it isn’t you Grandad’s uplands any more..

Trap is a different situation in that the distance is further, which gives an edge to the 12..

Excellent point-counterpoint!

[John Davis]

Harry, no winners or losers here. And in all fairness, the original question was what's your favorite gauge for hunting upland game. So I'm guilty of getting a bit off track. "Favorite" implies a subjective response. Therefore, the answer is as varied as the number of folks responding and no one can be right or wrong.

My final answer to the original question is: Any gauge, as long as it's a Parker.

[Mills Morrison]

Shoot whatever and we can still be friends, just as long as you don't shoot 12 gauge steel shot no. 4 at quail. A guide friend said someone actually did that

[Steven Groh]

Shoot whatever and we can still be friends, just as long as you don't shoot 12 gauge steel shot no. 4 at quail. A guide friend said someone actually did that

I was in Cabelas the other day, looking at ammo, and a guy and his son were wandering around looking confused. I asked him what he was looking for and he said, "3 inch shells."

I asked, "for what?" and he replied, "For dove shooting. My gun says 3" on the barrel."

There's not enough mentoring going on out there.

[Mills Morrison]

Yikes!

[CraigThompson]

Well none do, and curious or not you knew that, and you would choose the most extremes to make your point.

However, This NSSA Classification chart is reveling with what the great pointers can do with each gauge.

NSSA CLASSIFICATION TABLES
Revised & Effective April 22, 2014
OPEN INDIVIDUAL CLASSES
Class
12
20
28
.410

AAA*
.9850 & Over
.9825 & Over
.9800 & Over
.9650 & Over

So let’s take 12 to 28, and the difference is 0.005 in hit percentage in favor of the 12 between the two gauges in AAA Class. I guess I have to admit you win.

AAA is kinda fictitious as it’s only used at shoots with an exceedingly large number of AA shooters . And AAA to the best of my knowledge has always been 1 % point above AA so double AA would be 97.5 - 97.25 - 97 and 95.5 . Thirty years ago when I into skeet heavily the 12 was the same as now the 20 was 97-98 the 28 was 96.5 97.5 and the 410 was 94.5 95.5 with first numbers being minimum for AA and second number for AAA . I found AAA relatively easy at that time to attain a AAA average but I never could quite stay in 12 gauge AAA . But then again my 28 gauge average was usually above 98.25 most years with the 12 and 20 being slightly less but both still above 98 . FWIW the last years I shot the 20 in the 12 event and my average and number of 100 straights increased .

[CraigThompson]

Man I if I keep hearing all this skeet stuff I’m going to end up sending a K-32 and a VH 12 to Kolar for full length fitted skeet tubes . :rotf::rotf::rotf:

[Harry Neil]

Recoil....

It’s all good, and the 12 will almost always beat the smaller gauges by a little margin. Skeet averages across the board usually prove it. However, I don’t see it making any significant difference at typical upland shooting 30 yards and under.

[CraigThompson]

Recoil....

It’s all good, and the 12 will almost always beat the smaller gauges by a little margin. Skeet averages across the board usually prove it. However, I don’t see it making any significant difference at typical upland shooting 30 yards and under.

I saw a good many years when Bender would go clean for the entire year with the 20 and or 28 . While I don’t disagree with you it’s hard to beat perfection . 1000x1000 in ANY gauge is pretty special in my opinion .

[Steven Groh]

Yikes!

I did explain that he could shoot 2 3/4" cartridges out of his gun just fine and pointed him to the 1200 fps 1 ounce Herters loads on sale. But seriously, he just did not know.

[James L. Martin]

Another point to consider is a small chip off a clay bird is a dead bird but in hunting live birds that will usually be a lost bird or a wounded one. You should always try and have enough pattern density to kill whatever bird you are after. To me at least you can't compare 12ga vs 410 average at skeet , you are shooting at a known target that is thrown at your call at a known speed and path and one that you have shot at many times. Real birds do none of that.

[Ken Hill]

I just use a 2" 12 (5 1/2 lbs) in the early season and switch to a 2 1/2" 12 (6 lbs 5 oz) in the later season. I'm hunting pheasants (with a bonus quail now and then) over setters so the shots aren't long.

http://parkerguns.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=893&pictureid=11730

Ken

[todd allen]

I was in Cabelas the other day, looking at ammo, and a guy and his son were wandering around looking confused. I asked him what he was looking for and he said, "3 inch shells."

I asked, "for what?" and he replied, "For dove shooting. My gun says 3" on the barrel."

There's not enough mentoring going on out there.

I'm shooting 3` shells in my gun on opening day doves. The load is 11/16ths of an ounce of 7 1/2s

.410 Magnum ; --)

[Joe Graziano]

20 gauge Bernardelli for quail, 16 ga Poli for everything else upland, sxs of course. I also have a 16 gauge Belgian hammer gun that’s a blast on quail. Not easy but a lot of fun. In the 16 for quail, I use 2 1/2 RST #8, spreaders when they have them.

[Randy G Roberts]

Most of my upland hunting is for Phez and Sharpies. My gauge of choice has been the 16. My favorite gun to hunt with is a well worn but cared for tight as a tick 1921 VHE on a 1 frame with 32" barrels which weighs in at 6-12. Heavy by most standards but I enjoy it in the open prairie. Bought it from a Gent at the Southern when I spied him putting it in the rack and inquired. He said he owned the gun for near 40 years and it had been a favorite of his, one he could always shoot well, he said he shot it like crap that day. I asked if he would entertain selling it. His reply, not most days but today ain't like most days :)

[Mills Morrison]

Harry and I are shooting 16's for our first dove hunt. Both Parkers.

[Mike Koneski]

16, 20 and 28 but primarily 16s and SxS guns from Parker or Lefever.

[Daryl Corona]

16, 20 and 28 but primarily 16s and SxS guns from Parker or Lefever.

I hear tell Fox makes a dandy 16 and 20 for upland hunting especially with those fancy setters of yours out in front.:cool:

[Mills Morrison]

Fox 16s and 20s are great!

[Mike Koneski]

I hear tell Fox makes a dandy 16 and 20 for upland hunting especially with those fancy setters of yours out in front.:cool:

Since I sold them all it’s hard to hunt with a Fox! My go to was a 16 Fox SW for years. It canceled many a flight. 😆

[Frank Srebro]

Since I sold them all it’s hard to hunt with a Fox! My go to was a 16 Fox SW for years. It canceled many a flight. ��

And then Tool Man loaned you that nice 16 Sterly Ejector gun to compete in the Upland Gun Challenge at last year's VGC. :banghead: :rotf:

[bob weeman]

A six and one quarter pound 12 gauge Remington 1894 with 26 inch barrels. Wearing a lace on leather pad making it a Monte Carlo type set up. Choked modified and full. I have some Briley short tubes I throw in from time to time which pattern more openly and very well. Still like the 12 too with the tighter chokes. I will also be trying a Lefever 24 inch 12 this year. A bit heavier and also choked modified and full. I will probably shoot some spreaders in it but as is I have very good luck with it on my home clay set up. I have posted the clay set up here before with the trip wires and various angles I can do. Seems to be a pretty good testing ground. I have some changes in mind to make it better too. Will have to have some of you local guys up sometime for an informal shoot....

[Mike Koneski]

And then Tool Man loaned you that nice 16 Sterly Ejector gun to compete in the Upland Gun Challenge at last year's VGC. :banghead: :rotf:

It's not the arrow.....

[Dean Romig]

A six and one quarter pound 12 gauge Remington 1894 with 26 inch barrels. Wearing a lace on leather pad making it a Monte Carlo type set up. Choked modified and full. I have some Briley short tubes I throw in from time to time which pattern more openly and very well. Still like the 12 too with the tighter chokes. I will also be trying a Lefever 24 inch 12 this year. A bit heavier and also choked modified and full. I will probably shoot some spreaders in it but as is I have very good luck with it on my home clay set up. I have posted the clay set up here before with the trip wires and various angles I can do. Seems to be a pretty good testing ground. I have some changes in mind to make it better too. Will have to have some of you local guys up sometime for an informal shoot....

You set it up Bob and I’ll be there.





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[Bob Brown]

No pheasant, dove, or quail around here. Ruffed, Sharptail, and Spruce grouse with some Huns in the fields. For the last several years the go to is a Fox AE 20 with 28" barrels. I recently picked up a Parker VHE 20 with 28" barrels and after I bend it for a little cast off it may get a big share of the rotation. When I'm feeling old school I may take a Purdey bar in wood hammer gun in 16 bore. If I'm feeling high tech I'll take an early Model 12 20 with 2 1/2" chambers and 25" barrel. Others get out at least once a year. If they don't I might have to concede to the wife that I really could get by with fewer guns.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Bob thats a great line-up of guns. An AE 20 Fox is really sweet.

[Mike Koneski]

We just had a trip come together today! Heading to the Maine Northwoods with some bird buddies the second week of October. Taking a Parker VH 28” 16 and a Lefever 26” 12g. Our smallest Setter will be making her trip to the great Northwoods!! It’s just what the doctor ordered!

[Dean Romig]

You’re going to have a great time Mike.






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[James L. Martin]

Going upstate N.Y. in 14 days for Grouse think I will take 2 20ga Parker's. A Trojan and a VH.

[William Woods]

Not to get to far off topic, but in response to this comment. As a former police firearms instructor and department firearms coordinator, I had one of my police firearms instructors show up to qualify with his personal shotgun (12 GA mandatory) that had a rifled tube installed and he was going to shoot rifled slugs (also mandatory) through it. I had to explain the difference to him. Something worse? I had an officer show up for firearms inspection with his personal shotgun that he had installed an extended magazine tube on, no problem, it was legal. The problem was he did not know he had to install an extended magazine tube spring! Thought you might enjoy these two.

[William Woods]

Now I know why I cannot find the gun I always wanted, a 16GA DH(E) Parker with 26" barrels choked IMP/MOD. You guys have bought them all! I need a bit longer length of pull (no, a slip on pad will not work) than the factory produced, so I would need stock work done. The initial purchase price, then additional stock work, puts them out of my budget. My first shotgun was given to me by my maternal grandfather. A 28GA, American Gun Company, SxS, hammer gun, still have that one. I never hit a bird with it. I never used a smaller gauge gun in bird hunting (quail exclusively) until I competed in NSTRA events. Due to the walking involved I bought a 20GA Franchi AL 48 because of the weight. Now there are no wild birds to hunt here any longer. If there were I would take a 16 as my all around gun.

[William Woods]

Now I know why I cannot find the gun I always wanted, a 16GA DH(E) Parker with 26" barrels choked IMP/MOD. You guys have bought them all! I need a bit longer length of pull (no, a slip on pad will not work) than the factory produced, so I would need stock work done. The initial purchase price, then additional stock work, puts them out of my budget. My first shotgun was given to me by my maternal grandfather. A 28GA, American Gun Company, SxS, hammer gun, still have that one. I never hit a bird with it. I never used a smaller gauge gun in bird hunting (quail exclusively) until I competed in NSTRA events. Due to the walking involved I bought a 20GA Franchi AL 48 because of the weight. Now there are no wild birds to hunt here any longer. If there were birds to hunt I would take a 16 as my all around gun.

[Rich Anderson]

I'll head to the U.P. for the opening weekend with the boys (Ike and Duke) even if it is hot and thick it's still time in grouse country besides I need to go when I can. I won't get another chance until I get back from Wyoming and who knows how many chances I'll get then. I'll take a 26 inch straight grip DHE 20 cyl/IC but something else with some choke for the foliage but haven't decided yet. The soft maples are starting to turn color already.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Like this one William. DHE 16, 26" cyl/mod 6 lbs even

[Harold Lee Pickens]

That would be a great grouse gun Rich, I dont remember that one. Yeah, it may be green and warm on the opener, but hopefully a nice morning and evening hunt will be possible.

[Rich Anderson]

It was the first graded Parker I ever owned. I call it my "meat gun":rotf:

[William Woods]

Like this one William. DHE 16, 26" cyl/mod 6 lbs even

It is not nice to tease the elderly Harold.

Beautiful gun.

[William Woods]

Like this one William. DHE 16, 26" cyl/mod 6 lbs even

It is not nice to tease the elderly Harold.

Beautiful gun.

[Mike Koneski]

You’re going to have a great time Mike.






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Dean, we were setting up new ladder stands and moving others today and we got into grouse on the side hill above the short course!! It’s a sign!!

[CraigThompson]

Dean, we were setting up new ladder stands and moving others today and we got into grouse on the side hill above the short course!! It’s a sign!!

I’ve not pursued deer in PA in over ten years . And my friends that are left in Wayne , Pike and Monroe counties have been claiming for ten years that deer numbers are way down . Has that been your feeling as well ? You’re in Susquehanna county correct ?

[Mike Koneski]

I’ve not pursued deer in PA in over ten years . And my friends that are left in Wayne , Pike and Monroe counties have been claiming for ten years that deer numbers are way down . Has that been your feeling as well ? You’re in Susquehanna county correct ?

Craig, we have more than enough deer, buck and doe. They will eat everything if you don’t control their population. We typically take three buck and 11 doe off the property every year. Taking the 5-7 minute drive into Springville it’s nothing to see 40 deer or more depending on the time of day.

[Mills Morrison]

They tend to disappear when you get in a stand with a rifle

[Harry Neil]

Some of the Pa crew have been complaining about no Deer for years..Rare that I don't see 15 plus a day. One day a couple years ago before a big storm hit I saw in the low 40's. No Buck that I wanted to shoot.

Bigger Bucks are being killed in Pa than at any time in the previous 50 plus years. Yet the story stays the same...No Deer. If one lives anywhere close to farm country, the Deer are there.

[Rich Anderson]

I have hunted deer in Pa but never with a small bore Parker:rotf:

[Harry Neil]

I have hunted deer in Pa but never with a small bore Parker:rotf:

Me neither, but I could have been successful more than a few times...:)

[Tom Flanigan]

My grouse guns are a 20 bore GH, a 20 bore PHE, my grandfather's 20 bore VH and a 28 bore Holland and Holland. I can't tell the difference in birds brought to bag with the 20's vs. the 28 bore. The 28 bore was my favorite grouse gun for years but now most days I take the PHE.

[Rich Anderson]

Opening weekend will find me in the U. P. with Gunner's Gun:)

[Brett Hoop]

Opening weekend will find me in the U. P. with Gunner's Gun:)

Rich

Please charge the batteries in the boys collars and your hearing aids. No more nightmare stories. That gave me nightmares.

[Rich Anderson]

I ALWAYS carry extra hearing aid batteries and even bought a GPS collar. I don't want to go thru that again either. Ike just turned three yesterday and Duke will be two in a couple of weeks. I'll miss my 5 weeks in the U.P. but long weekends and my off week the end of October will give me almost 10 continuous days. Once again I'll celebrate my birthday with the dogs, a fine cigar and a good bourbon in the U.P.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Hope the weather cools off for you. It is going to be in the upper 40's here tonight. Was going to call you tomorrow, but looks like you may be out hunting. Will be up there the last 2 weeks of Oct, and trying to u there for a 3-4 day hunt before that--along way to go for a short hunt, but going to try.
Terry and I have decided to bring the 28's also--he has a beretta 687, and me, my Uggie 28

[Rich Anderson]

Harold I'll be there the 23 or 24 of October whatever day is Friday to the 2 or 3 of November. I'll need to shut her down by the first Tuesday in November.

[Don Strelioff]

Here’s the deal for me like everyone on this site I love shotguns I have since I was 10 yrs old I have guns in all gauges I like to hunt with sxs’s but also have a16 ga model 97 that I like to take out for sharp tail grouse I purchased some 1 1/4 oz no 4&5’s win mark 5’s that are deadly on pheasants and sharptails at longer yardage I also have a 1919 gh Parker 20ga 26” bbl Damascus gun I use it for ruffed grouse partridge and other smaller birds I do have a 28 ga browning model 12 just because I like it and a 1948 model 42 I shoot all of these from time to time there are a few others in the safe as well . All this being said if I had to have one gun it would be my 1928 vhe 1 1/2 frame 30 “bbl gun I load bismuth and lead for it 7/8” oz and 1 oz lead for up land same payload as the small gauges and 1 1/8 oz bismuth for waterfowl I shoot this gun like a laser . When I was a young man in the 70’s I hunted everything with a 28”bbl modified choked model 12 plain field gun and always came home with my share of game and usually helped with my partner s share . Beware of the man with one gun . Sorry for rambling

[Dean Romig]

I just remembered one more Parker that will get a bit of exercise in the grouse covers soon - the little 20 gauge Trojan I bought from Russ Jackson recently for my granddaughters. The little sweetie comes up so nicely it’l be hard to give it away.





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[Brett Hoop]

Dean

"hard to give away".... Oh Please, you and Edgar can talk that hardline, but you guys are too shrewd. Lets see Martha gets a Reproduction and next thing you know she's locating 24" 28ga from early production. There is no better investment than in the future users of things we hold dear. WTG grandpa!

[Dean Romig]

Brett - you are soo right!

It gives me tremendous joy to be able to introduce my grandchildren to the pleasures of the outdoors the way I have.

Cam is hooked on hunting and clays shooting and this year especially has become quite the fisherman!
His sister Katie loves hunting with Grampy and asks all the time about when she can come to Vermont with me.

Isabella and Lillia would never intentionally kill anything but really love it when I take them to Addieville to shoot clays.

I just love it!!





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[George Davis]

Preparing to head to Montana for two weeks of upland bird hunting and 1/2 Day "Turkey" Shoot in Denton on the 10th for fund raiser for High School Shooting Team.
Three guns are making the trip: 16 gauge 1913 Fox, 1921 Fox 12 gauge and 1895 GH 12 # 2 frame. I'll use the two frame in the turkey shoot.

[Mills Morrison]

With Harry's interest, I am in the process of making sure I have at least two of everything. Mills likes tractors and I just bought an antique John Deere bulldozer that may be more expensive than the guns

[Tom Flanigan]

I use Browning Bss shotguns 12ga. for serious hunting. They handle any load you feed them and they are built like a bank vault. The12ga. will do anything the smaller ga. guns will do and do it better. With that being said here is a quote from THE SHOTGUNNERS BOOK by Askins 1958 The perfect shotgun is the 12. If, man or boy, a gent isnt stud enough to shoot a 12 then he should take up ping pong. The other gauges are makeshifts that do a killing job but never with the lethality of this remarkably versatile gauge Harry


Conversly, Elmer Keith's favorite bore for upland shooting was a 16. Many of his birds were taken at long range and he swore by the 1 1/8 heavy 16 load. I can't imagine a better bore for all around upland shooting than the 16. I hunt wild pheasants extensively (I plant acres of sorghum for them every year) and the 16 bore is perfect. I do use a light DHE 12 bore also, but only because I like shooting this gun at game. I can't notice any difference in birds taken with both guns, although I don't take any shots over 40 yards.

From a practicle perspective, gauge should be determined by the bird hunted and the cover. The little 28 bore is good for ruffed grouse in tight cover and quail. Conversely, I never use it on wild pheasants nor do I hunt them with a 20. You can get away with it early in the season, maybe, but later on the pheasant is a 16 or 12 bore bird.

I don't feel the need to carry a heavy 12 when I can do the job as well with a smaller bore. It has nothing to do with manhood. It has everything to do with chosing the right gun for the bird and area hunted.