What did Parker Bros do...

[Mike Franzen]

I have seen several PGCA letters on guns that state the gun was ordered by a company or sporting goods store and shipped out on a certain date. Then a later order book shows the gun was returned for credit and shipped out somewhere else. Sometimes several years may have passed. I have wondered if the guns were used and then shipped back and refurbished by Parker? Or, did the gun sit around in inventory because no one bought and then it was shipped out? Did Parker buy used guns and trade in those?

[Dean Romig]

Yes they did buy some guns back. Chuck will know a lot more about it, and certainly Bill Mullins will know too.





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[Mike McKinney]

I think this is a great question, my understanding is they were very accommodating to their dealers and customers. My understanding is that they might freshen a gun up then re-sell it, possibly at normal pricing. Sometimes it was a matter of up grading, probably happened when the customer was not satisfied, their goal being customer satisfaction.
Others could speak with more authority than me.

[Rick Losey]

More likely- The original dealer didn’t sell the gun and it was removed from inventory and went back to the factory and eventually was used to fill another order

[Randy Davis]

Have a SB grade SBT that letters to Winchester Repeating Arms and later returned for credit...

Trap3

[Dean Romig]

Have a SB grade SBT that letters to Winchester Repeating Arms and later returned for credit...

Trap3

Winchester, Remington, Peters, and other ammo manufacturers often ordered other manufacturer's guns for the purpose of testing new loads.

(Why they didn't simply use guns they manufactured is a mystery.)





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[Mike Franzen]

(Why they didn't simply use guns they manufactured is a mystery.)


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I believe in Winchester’s case they were trying to prove the superiority of the model 21 design.

[Dean Romig]

Did Winchester make a SBT that they wanted to compare to a Parker SBT?





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[Brian Dudley]

It likely was the simple case of retailers returning guns that were hanging around in inventory and not selling. Then Parker would move them to another outlet or sell directly. I am sure that if the guns needed any sort of cosmetic attention, that they would clean them up to maintain a new appearance.

[Dean Romig]

Those interested may wish to read George Purtill's and Daniel L. Shuey's article "Winchester Repeating Arme Co. Test Bank Parkers" found in Parker Pages 2013 Issue 1 - or Dean Romig's article "Shot to Destruction!" found in Parker Pages 2015, Issue 2 (though this article is only 'circumstantial evidence' supported by a PGCA Research Letter).





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[Chuck Bishop]

Yes to all the above. There are many entry's in the order books of guns being returned for credit by large sporting goods or hardware stores. Those were probably unfired. There are entries where a new gun was ordered by an individual and he traded in another Parker for partial credit on a new gun. I don't think Parker ever sold used guns, they would return them to factory new condition and sell them as new for the regular price or slightly reduced price of a new gun.

[Randy Davis]

Did Winchester make a SBT that they wanted to compare to a Parker SBT?





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Not to my knowledge... never even aware of a prototype.

Trap3

[Bill Murphy]

Winchester made a "Model 21" single trap gun, but it was never close to production as I understand it. This prototype was sold at auction recently.

[Dave Noreen]

The SBT version of the Model 21 is pictured on pages 214 and 215 of Ned Schwing's Model 21 book. Credited to the Peter & Patty Murray collection. The over/under version is on pages 208 to 214. No relation to the reprofiled Inverness CMSC sells as a Model 21 over/under.

[Mike Franzen]

I don't think Parker ever sold used guns, they would return them to factory new condition and sell them as new for the regular price or slightly reduced price of a new gun.

Have you ever seen an entry stating that’s what they did? I wonder how they would have referenced that?

[Dean Romig]

Wording to that effect is in the letter for my 28 gauge Skeet gun No. 236912

The letter states it was one of the guns.... well, you can read it yourself.

According to the research package I received from Bob Beach at Griffin & Howe it was received at A&F on Feb. 28, 1943 for $124.43 and sold shortly thereafter for $138.00.
These are pretty much ‘new gun’ prices.

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[Rick Losey]

I believe in Winchester’s case they were trying to prove the superiority of the model 21 design.

well - i think the model 21 was first sold in 1931, so many of the Parkers made during the rush of shotshell development predate it

i agree with Dean that guns were used as testing platforms

off the Parker topic- but in line with this sub tangent -

My Super Fox was one of the early ones - it was shipped to VL&D where a Mr. L. A. Miller ( i have been unable to find any data on him-would love to know why he had a new type of gun for it's first season) picked it up within a couple days of its arrival in October

and then Mr Miller returned the gun to the store at the end of season from where it was sent 2 1/2 blocks down the street to Winchester -

Unfortunately the Winchester records in the Cody Museum do not include the NYC store's data.

[Bill Mullins]

I recall an instance where a customer sent his C grade back to the factory to have it upgraded to a B grade. I was fortunate to have seen the gun several years ago. It was well done and a very attractive gun.