Wichester-Western Low Brass Shells

[Dave Noreen]

A mention of the compression formed Winchester Xpert in another thread got me using up some of my social isolating time researching the history.

From the 1930s into the early 1960s Winchester's low brass shell was the RANGER and Western's the Xpert. For 1964 the Olins went to a plastic hull they called Poly-Formed for the RANGER and Xpert.

85714

This was the RANGER and Xpert to 1970. In 1971, a new compression formed low brass shell UPLAND replaced the RANGER in the Winchester line and the Xpert in the Western Line.

85715

For 1980 they committed the unforgivable sin of combining Winchester and Western names --

85716

and then for 1982 the Western name was gone --

85717

Also in 1982 Olin off loaded the gun business in New Haven to U.S. Repeating Arms and kept their ammunition business.

The 1985 Winchester ammunition catalog was the last appearance of the UPLAND.

85718

During 1985 they introduced the new Winchester Xpert --

85719

apparently the same hull as the UPLAND but now with a plastic wad replacing the fiber wads. Now really a field version of the AA. From the 1986 catalog --
85720

The Xpert remained in the catalogs through 1990. For 1991 the compression formed Xpert was replaced with something called the Super-X Low Brass.

Hard to imagine these hulls I'm still reloading are from that long ago.

[CraigThompson]

Did they ever make a AA 16 gauge Skeet or trap load that was listed as such ? And if so what time period . I don’t ever recall seeing such a thing but my recollection and $0.62 will get you a cup of coffee in the AM !

[Dave Noreen]

Not that I've ever seen or heard of. The AA was introduced in 12-gauge trap loads, and 12- and 20-gauge skeet loads in 1965. In the 1970 catalog they introduced the AA .410-bore skeet load, and in the 1971 catalog it states the AA 28-gauge skeet load would be available May 1971. I looked through everything I have from 1965 to 2011 and no 16-gauge AA.

[Daryl Corona]

Dave;
Any idea of when the SuperX Mark5 load came out? I believe it was in that same time period. (mid 60's to late 70's?)

[Dave Noreen]

The Mark 5 shot collar was introduced on the Winchester Super-Speed and Western Super-X in 1962.

85722

Meanwhile Remington and Peters were introducing plastic shotgun shells.

[Daryl Corona]

Thanks Dave. You truly are a fountain of knowledge.:bowdown:

As the commercial goes "we live and breath this stuff". That's you.

[Keith Doty]

Fond memories of those red and yellow Xpert boxes from the early 60's. Sitting on a bar stool in my grandfather's basement. He'd let me stuff the shells in the boxes when he reloaded. I'm sure he couldn't have done it without a 6 year old grandson underfoot.

[Dave Noreen]

From the 1930s into the early 1950s our ammunition companies offered 16-gauge Skeet Loads.

85727

85728

[Austin J Hawthorne Jr.]

I've been loading 7/8 oz. 16 gauge loads with 14 grains of Red Dot for the past few years. I knew that there were factory loads using Red Dot years ago but never had one to take apart to weigh the powder charge. Does anyone here know what the old factory charge weight was?

[Dave Noreen]

These are the ones that surprise me, 28-gauge loaded with Red Dot --

85733

[Dean Romig]

A bit hot for sure but it's only pushing 5/8 ounces of shot. They were pretty fast I'll bet.





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[Mike Koneski]

That was back when the shell companies actually told the public what powder they used. Long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away.

[Dave Noreen]

Here is Red Dot in the heavier, 2 3/4 inch, 28-gauge load --

85734

Even as marked up as it is, this very early box of 2 3/4 inch, 28-gauge, Skeet Loads went for $470!! Well past my comfort zone.

Similar box from Remington on GI for $50 --

85752

85753

[Bill Murphy]

Has anyone ever dismantled a 28 gauge Red Dot load to see if there is actually Red Dot powder in there? Second question, has anyone seen the box that Winchester 16 gauge compression formed, eight segment crimp shells came in? It is certainly a shell identical to a AA shell, but I don't know about the nomenclature. I still have a stash of the empties, but no box. I guess Dave answered my question on Craig's thread. Is there a AA box of 16s out there somewhere?

[Dean Romig]

Here is Red Dot in the heavier, 2 3/4 inch, 28-gauge load -- 85734



:shock:

[Dave Noreen]

The UPLAND shells as introduced in 1971 had a 6-point sealed crimp, the same as the compression formed Super-X and Super-Speed.

85742

85745

In the 1983 Winchester ammunition catalog they state that the UPLAND shells now have the 8-point AA style crimp for easier reloading. So, they would be in this style box --

85743

The Xpert Box --

85746

and of course the 16-gauge Dove & Quails for a few years --

85744