Restored Damascus

[Brad Bachelder]

For us Parkerphiles who enjoy properly restored Damascus, here is a recently restored set. Upon close inspection, one can almost detect the presence of four colors, as opposed to simple black and white. This set has an exceptional top and bottom rib, demonstrating very unique patterns from what we usually see. Enjoy!

[Drew Hause]

Nice 3 Iron 'Oxford' D3 Brad. Did Channing do those barrels?

[Brad Bachelder]

No Drew, he didn't do the barrels, but like Shake & Bake chicken, he sure helped alot. Channing and I do the barrels together.

[Drew Hause]

I added the last pic here Brad
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dfg2hmx7_192fcpp4khn

[Dave Suponski]

Brad,Absolutely stunning work!:bowdown: Please send me your address I have a set of twist barrels to send ya.

[Greg Franklin]

Fantastic Brad! I would love to have some turn out like these; have to give it a try some day. BTW Drew, are we going to do a "Damascus-in-the-Desert" this year?

[Drew Hause]

I'd like to Greg (and Phil) but maybe at Ben Avery. I'll make a post on all the Forums in the winter and see what sort of response we get. Some Fox fellas are also interested.
I guess another option would be to meet in Sonoita and chase some Mearns together in Jan. Lots of rain this Monsoon on Las Cienegas :)

[Brad Bachelder]

Dave thanks for the interest, by the way all of our barrel work is of the same calbre.
You can contact us at Bachelder Master Gunmakers, 1229 Michigan N.E., Grand Rapids MI 49503. 616-459-3636. My wife Lori will direct your call to me. Thanks, Brad

[Dave Suponski]

Thank You Brad... I will be in touch.

[Phillip Carr]

Drew I was out this weekend down south. We have been recieving some rain, hope it keeps up. The Mearns should be very good if the rains keep coming. Took out my A2 and shot some pigeons for my new shorthair. Let me know if a doubles in the desert is on this year, I will help where I can. Otherwise we will go chase some quail .

[Travis Sims]

Phil........i want to go!:rotf:

[Dave Miles]

Here's a picture of a P grade Bachelders did the case colors and the barrel.
Looks to me like the receiver was dirty or had oil spots left on it during the process?

[Phillip Carr]

Travis after the great job you did on my barrels how could I possible ever say no. I will be posting my DH completed project this weekend.

Phil

[Travis Sims]

Phil........i just have to get there right?:banghead:

[Phillip Carr]

That's right, and be sure to bring your good hunting boots. My GSP's can cover a lot of ground.

[Brad Bachelder]

Here's a picture of a P grade Bachelders did the case colors and the barrel.
Looks to me like the receiver was dirty or had oil spots left on it during the process?

Here is a sample of our bone charcoal color case. Dave's P grade receiver was done with a different process using tricalcium phosphate color enhancing. In that process the gun isnt restored like it would be in traditional bone charcoal color case hardening. Rather it is a less expensive way to add some color to a shiny shooter. Our traditional bone charcoal process involves tireless hours of polishing, as well as total degreasing. Here is a very similar P grade we recently totally restored.

[Dave Miles]

Well, I received a phone call from Brad Bachelder. And in all fairness to Brad, he wasn’t aware of the situation, and has offered to redo the case colors, at no charge. Which seems more than fair to me.

[Bruce Day]

Original Parker color case hardening.

The original colors are difficult to duplicate although I have seen it done. Bone charcoal case coloring does it best although a skilled applicator with the cyanide process can come very close. Cyanide processes do not have to result in tiger stripes and gaudy colors. I am not familiar with other coloring processes.

Highly engraved surfaces do not hold the colors as well as non engraved surfaces, but regardless there is a tendency to get the colors too thick and heavy so that they look painted on. Jay Shachter showed me some of Brad's work at the UP shoot that Jay had on display and I thought it was pretty good.

Its very hard to judge case colors from photos and without the gun in hand, as so much depends upon lighting. For example, the B shown below can under some light conditions look dark whereas it looks light in the below photo.

[Travis Sims]

Sweet pics Bruce!

[Dean Romig]

Bruce, which of those pictured have been recolored and which are original?

[Bruce Day]

Bruce, which of those pictured have been recolored and which are original?

All are original.

[Russ Jackson]

Bruce ;The gun with the Quail on the sides of the receiver,do you know if this is a special type of engraving or is the engraving so much more in depth because of a higher grade gun? You see other high grade guns that don't really have this treatment, just curious ,this is very nice ! Cabelas have a BHE 12 Ga. at their Pa. store with very similar engraving, is your gun a B Grade as well ! The guns are all very nice condition !

[Bruce Day]

Russ, just normal cut quail engraving on a CHE. Rem Parker gun and the quail you sometimes see as a variation.

The bead sculpted gun is a 1911 BHE. About a box of shells through it.

I posted those photos as examples of correct and original Parker case hardening colors, which vary. Those can be compared to modern attempts to duplicate colors and people can make their own decisions. I will say that inadequate finishing, buffing the frame, and failure to remove oil can leave the frame and engraving worse looking than it was before.

[Brad Bachelder]

Bruce, great pictures! Thanks for noting the fact that engraving obscures the case pattern. UV rays, solvents, and handling, serve to wash or lighten the vivid colors produced by the factory. It is my belief that surviving original examples, affected by these factors, are significantly lighter in overall color and definition of pattern. New color case looks fresh and new, and our goal is to duplicate original colors and patterns as close to factory as possible. In my 35 years of gun restoring, I have yet to discover a way to mechanically emulate the effects of time, other than hunting and shooting with your Parker everyday.

Brad

[Dean Romig]

All are original.


NICE ! Thanks Bruce.

[Russ Jackson]

Thanks you Bruce for the nice discription, the Quail almost look shaded ,this is why I ask about the engraving, I keep looking at my DH 28 Ga. and debating sending it to Turnbulls but the gun appears to be original and conforms to the factory letter , I wish it had a little more condition ,as to case colors but really I wouldn't want to do anything to ruin the originality of the gun while I am the " care giver "with that being said ,it sure would look pretty with" correct " case colors back on her !

[Bruce Day]

While beauty is always in the eye of the beholder ( therefore we have Ogden Pleissner salmon river paintings and Elvisii on black velvet) , I think you have to ask yourself if these guns would be improved by re case coloring.

The first is the Adm. Fletcher AH. Note the scene off Annapolis and the sailing rig offshore.
The second is the little 2O ga CHE with the single wood duck on the bottom.

[Russ Jackson]

Bruce; You are an intelligent fellow, point well taken, I don't believe you could improve on either !!! I never really looked at it like that, You search and search for good quality original guns and you get wrapped up in the colors and bluing etc. but when you look at it like that, it's plain to see high quality and non messed with can be as good as it gets ! One more thing,I keep selling and swapping and saving, I am waiting to hear that little beauty with the roundel engraving is for sale !

[Dean Romig]

There's a long line for that one Russ :)

[Russ Jackson]

AW ,Come on Dean ; Give me a Chance !!! :rotf:

[Bruce Day]

I have no intention of selling it but it is fun to look at and shoot.

No arrows on the rib markings. Unusual for a 1904 gun.

We had three C 20's together for a Kansas hunt last January, two damascus barreled and one fluid steel.

[Bruce Day]

xxx

[Bruce Day]

xxx

[scott kittredge]

I LOVE THAT WOODDUCK !!!!!

[Dean Romig]

Bruce, I just happen to have one of those CH guns without the arrows at each end of the rib inscription. I say 'rib inscription' because it was not done with a roll die but was engraved. This one is obviously a Bernard barreled CH.

[Russ Jackson]

Hey, you guys just keep giving the rest of us more reasons to buy another !!

[Bruce Day]

The very early hammerless guns had hand engraved rib inscriptions, but by the mid 1890's all I have seen were roll stamped. The early hammerless ones sometimes omitted the arrrows, but this one is unusual because it is a 1904 gun and should have had the arrows. It is roll stamped.

[Larry Frey]

Bruce,
I don't have any pictures handy but my 1902 Whitworth barrels have the inscription engraved and are also without the arrows.

[Dean Romig]

My CH Bernard is ser. no. 84088 an 1896 gun. I wonder what determined wether the rib legend was roll stamped or engraved within the same grade?

[Dave Suponski]

My BH grade Damascus gun #84709 is roll stamped with arrows and so is D grade #84212.

Is it possible that Parker didn,t have a roll stamp for Bernard guns? Does anyone have one?

[Bruce Day]

Is it possible that Parker didn,t have a roll stamp for Bernard guns? Does anyone have one?[/QUOTE]

Sure. A 1905 CHE Bernard with roll stamped rib and arrows.

[Dean Romig]

I'm putting my money on they didn't have one in 1896. There really isn't a valid explanation other than what Dave has suggested, unless it was ordered "engrave rib".

What is the serial number of the earliest hammerless Parker with Bernard barrels that had the rib roll stamped? This may help to determine if Dave's suggestion is the answer.

[Larry Frey]

They had a roll stamp for Bernard Steel in 1903.(119760)

[Bill Murphy]

My 1897 two barrel set seems to be roll stamped with quadruple fletched arrows. However, the owners name seems to be engraved in a backhand style and in a different font to the left of the Parker roll. Do I win the "earliest roll stamp award"?

[Dean Romig]

Larry, are both barrel sets roll stamped?

[Dean Romig]

All contestants will be notified at the end of the competition. In the case of a tie there will be a shoot-off . . . winner take all. Good luck Bill :corn:

[Larry Frey]

Yes Dean, both sets are marked identically. I was thinking about bringing the gun to Pintail for the banquet display of 16 gages.

[Dean Romig]

That would be very fitting.

It is my opinion that the very first Parker sixteen gauge should be the centerpiece of the PGCA Banquet theme but it might be a "no show" through no fault of it's conservator.

[Dave Suponski]

Yes and if the earliest roll stamp is later than 1896 I win and the gun should be immediatly sent to me! :rolleyes:

[Dean Romig]

I've read TPS about rib legends and how they were applied but there is nothing definitive written there. TPS states that the roll stamping started in 1879 and that engraved rib legends ended about that time but that doesn't take into account the fact that comparatively few Parkers were made with Bernard barrels - hence the lack of necessity of a roll die for these barrels until it became apparent that they would continue to produce Bernard barreled guns for about another twenty years after 86088 was produced. And why would they make a roll die for the equally uncommon Whitworth barrels or rarer still, Peerless barrels?

Anyone have other ideas or thoughts?

[Bill Murphy]

My CH two barrel set is #86,988 with a roll stamp on both sets, in addition to the engraved names. The assumption would be that the roll stamp was made some time between Dean's #84,088 and my 86,988. Does anyone have a Bernard barrel gun between those two numbers? How about in TPS?

[Dean Romig]

Or, does anyone have a Bernard barreled Parker earlier than 84,088 with a roll stamped rib?

[Bruce Day]

Sn 56,557. You tell me. Its some sort of stamping.

[Bruce Day]

Sn 136,503

[Dave Suponski]

56,557 is engraved.

[Dean Romig]

And 136,503 is definitely roll stamped.

[Bill Murphy]

Are all roll stamped Bernard barrels equipped with quadruple fletched arrows? By the way, the arrows are discussed at length in a Parker Pages issue. Just check in the Parker Pages index to locate the article.

[Dean Romig]

Excuse my ignorance, where can I find the "Parker Pages index"?

[Dave Suponski]

Dean...I got my index from Ron when I ordered all the back issues years ago. Index's where published periodically in the"first generation" Parker Pages.

[Dean Romig]

Wouldn't it be nice to have them all on DVD with an index and a search function?

[Kurt Densmore]

A buddy was in GR today and picked up a certain set of bbls from the Bachelder shop that have an uncanning resemblence to the ones that Brad posted up a couple of weeks ago. Sorry guys, you are going to have to find a 5 frame 10 ga lifter to get barrels this nice...LOL

Some before and after photos. I was loosing outdoor light so I didn't get nearly the pics that Brad got...My pictures do not do them justice.

What really surprised me about these bbls is that there is several slightly different variations in pattern between the barrels and even in the same barrel.

Thanks Brad and I will probably have to bring in the action for final fitting of the extractor.

Kurt