Parker repair records availability

[James Lloyd]

According to The Parker Story, Parker began keeping separate repair records early in the 1900s. I am trying to find out if there is any repair information for my 1929 vintage CHE (231036) for which the stock and order books are missing. I strongly suspect that the gun was repaired by Parker in the 1930's (pre Remington). Are Parker repair records available for the early 1930's and, if so, how might I have access to them? Thank you for your help and advice. Jim Lloyd

[Dean Romig]

Jim, you can contact Mark Conrad, the Research Committee Chairman, but it's a pretty sure bet that there are no surviving records available for your CHe and that includes repair and alteration records too. The serial number of your CHE falls within the range where the stock and order books are missing. I owned CHE 230760 and was also disappointed by the lack of records.

[James Lloyd]

Thank you for your advice. I requested a letter from the Association after I acquired the gun but was disappointed to learn that a letter could not be produced due to the absence of the stock and order books. I was hoping that if the repair records had been kept separately, they might give me an insight into what I believe was a significant repair. Like most Parker owners, I want to learn as much as I can about the history of my gun.

[Dean Romig]

Jim, tell us about the significant repair and post a picture or two and some may offer their opinions on the repair.

[James Lloyd]

Several years ago, Robert Beach at Griffin & Howe located for me the A & F record for the sale of the gun in 1929. The gun, as then configured, had 30 inch full choke barrels with a splinter forearm. Now, the gun has 28 inch barrels with chokes of .009 and .014, a beavertail forearm and "SKEET IN" and "SKEET OUT" stampings on the barrel flats. The forearm iron engraving and the forearm checkering are beautifully done and identical to the rest of the gun. The forearm and stock wood are both Circassian. Serial numbers all match. I'm sure that the barrels were cut, even though they touch and the barrel matting terminates before the end of the rib, because the barrel keel is missing. Taken together, this makes me think that the repair or conversion was done by Parker Bros. at the request of the owner when skeet became popular in the early 1930's. Although these modifications obviously reduce the value of the gun, I like the gun and want to know as much as possible about it. I'm not very adept at sending photographs but may try if this would help. Thanks again for your interest. Jim Lloyd

[Dean Romig]

Two ways of determining if the beavertail forend was fitted by Parker Bros. is if the forend has the "reinforcing rod" and if it has the reinforced one-piece forend lug. How about posting pictures of those two features if the gun has them? The forend iron is also different than the iron for a splinter in that it is stepped at the forward end to allow for drilling and tapping the hole for the reinforcing rod.

[James Lloyd]

Thank you again for your interest. Yes, the beavertail has the heavier forearm iron and reinforcing rod, identical to the picture on page 145 of The Parker Story. The forearm is engraved at the base to match the engraving on the frame, and the matching serial number is stamped on the iron near the patent stamp. The 24 LPI checkering has a beautiful mullered border The barrels have the beavertail loop, but that may be original inasmuch as Parker Bros. began installing the beavertail loop in the 1920's even on higher grade guns with splinter forearms. I'll see if I can get my wife to help me with photographs.

[David Holes]

I was under the impression that repair records were kept or included in data base for guns d grade and above ?

[Robert Delk]

Del Grego? They have the stamps and have used them on other guns that weren't originally skeet guns.

[Dean Romig]

I've seen several Del Grego upgrades which originally had splinter forends that now sport a Del Grego beavertail and not one of them had the one-piece forend lug, the correct forend iron or the full length reinforcing rod.

[Bill Murphy]

OK, here is the story on the records. The repair records were kept as "order books". Some repair records are intertwined in the order books that recorded orders and sales of guns. Some repair records were kept in "order books" that were posted only with repairs. Regardless, the order books are consectutive by date and book number and were discontinued in 1919 except for one book (order book #101 which covered from 1919 to 1934) a book that included very few gun sales or repairs and mostly covered financial transactions and returns from dealers to Parker Brothers in anticipation of the Remington takeover. This book is in the PGCA database of serial numbers, as are the repair only order books. Your gun, being post 1919, is not going to be included in the Parker Brothers repair records, as you have been told by the PGCA researcher. As you know, your second chance was with Bob Beach. Another chance that some information my be "guessed at" by serious Parker researchers is if your gun has Remington repair codes stamped on the barrel flats. That would indicate that, at some time, your gun was returned to Remington for some kind of repair or modification, neither of which is researchable. Another source of original looking conversions to skeet configuration is Larry Del Grego and Son in Ilion, New York. Unfortunately, that firm keeps records by customer name, not serial number. However, you could take your gun to Ilion and Mr. Del Grego could give you his opinion if his firm performed the work. He may even remember your gun. You have said that your gun includes the "Skeet In and Skeet Out" choke markings on the barrel flat? It is unlikely that Remington would stamp those marks on a gun that was returned to them for modification. However, the Del Grego firm often stamped those choke marks on guns sent to them for conversion to skeet configuration. I hope I have given you some additional ways to provenance your gun. Let us know how you do. Good luck.

[Bill Murphy]

By the way, I just read the post by "Chilled Shot". He indicates that he has not seen a Del Grego beavertail conversion that has the through bolt. I have seen many Del Grego beavertail conversions, and owned some. All I have seen except on .410 bore guns have had the proper through bolt. All correspondence I have had from the Del Grego firm since 1969 has included a statement from them that a through bolt conversion was a neccesary part of a beavertail conversion. I think your gun is a Del Grego conversion because of the 28" barrel length. Remington 28" skeet guns are quite rare but Del Grego 28" skeet conversions are quite common.

[Robin Lewis]

Which books are missing?

[Larry Frey]

By the way, I just read the post by "Chilled Shot". He indicates that he has not seen a Del Grego beavertail conversion that has the through bolt. I have seen many Del Grego beavertail conversions, and owned some. All I have seen except on .410 bore guns have had the proper through bolt. All correspondence I have had from the Del Grego firm since 1969 has included a statement from them that a through bolt conversion was a neccesary part of a beavertail conversion. I think your gun is a Del Grego conversion because of the 28" barrel length. Remington 28" skeet guns are quite rare but Del Grego 28" skeet conversions are quite common.

Bill,
Would the Del Grego's go so far as to add the reinforced loop to the barrels as part of their skeet gun modifications?

[Dean Romig]

By the way, I just read the post by "Chilled Shot". He indicates that he has not seen a Del Grego beavertail conversion that has the through bolt. I have seen many Del Grego beavertail conversions, and owned some. All I have seen except on .410 bore guns have had the proper through bolt. All correspondence I have had from the Del Grego firm since 1969 has included a statement from them that a through bolt conversion was a neccesary part of a beavertail conversion. I think your gun is a Del Grego conversion because of the 28" barrel length. Remington 28" skeet guns are quite rare but Del Grego 28" skeet conversions are quite common.

I defer to the guy with way more Parker experience than I have. Again, the ones I have seen didn't have it. It is possible that the ones I've seen and handled were not done by Del Grego?? ...but they were represented as such and to my eye certainly looked like their work.

[James Lloyd]

Thanks, Bill for your counsel. I doubt that Remington did the work, because there is no Remington repair code on the barrel flats. I also question whether Del Grego did the work, because the forearm iron is bone charcoal case hardened, not cyanide. Nevertheless, I'll take your advice and contact Mr. Del Grego, who did beautiful work on my favorite Parker, a 1921 Trojan. The search goes on. Thanks to all. Jim Lloyd