Disconnect between Hang-Tag & Letter

[Dave Noreen]

I was just looking at a 20-gauge for sale on GI that includes the original hang-tag and has a letter. The letter states "RH full and LH full."

The hang-tag states the gun was targeted with 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge shells with 2 1/4 drams of bulk smokeless powder and 7/8 ounce of #8 Tatham Chilled Shot. The tag states R.H. Bbl. targets 100 pellets, L.H. Bbl. targets 150 pellets. According to the charts I've found, Tatham #8s run 399 per ounce which would be 349 in 7/8 ounce. 100/349 = 28.7% and 150/349 = 43% essentially extremely open.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/parker-shotguns/extremely-fine-parker-vh-20ga-with-original-hang-tags.cfm?gun_id=101458959

[James L. Martin]

I saw the same , I would believe the hang tags, with today's ammo the gun skeet and mod.Chokes listed as .005 & .017

[Brian Dudley]

Not the first gun I have seen with chokes that did not match a letter. And I am talking about cases there the gun is much tighter than the letter states on one or both barrels. That doesn't just happen on its own.

[Dave Noreen]

After sleeping on this, it occurs to me that the gun might well have been built for stock full & full and then the chokes opened per the hang-tag to fill an order.

[Chuck Bishop]

Attached is a copy of the stock book for 195024 and above it is 195023 which is a 16ga. gun. Notice the 2 entries for pellet count on the 16ga. gun. The top is RH, the bottom LH. This was with #7 shot. Look at the pellet count for 195024 and you see only 1 entry which would mean both barrels had the same pellet count using #8 shot. I guess that there could have been an entry on top of 240 but I can't see it. Using 240 as the pellet count it comes out to 69%, much different than the hang tag!

[Garry L Gordon]

Attached is a copy of the stock book for 195024 and above it is 195023 which is a 16ga. gun. Notice the 2 entries for pellet count on the 16ga. gun. The top is RH, the bottom LH. This was with #7 shot. Look at the pellet count for 195024 and you see only 1 entry which would mean both barrels had the same pellet count using #8 shot. I guess that there could have been an entry on top of 240 but I can't see it. Using 240 as the pellet count it comes out to 69%, much different than the hang tag!

I love looking at the pages from the records. It's like looking at the Dead Sea Scrolls. (And I'm glad Chuck can read this writing!)

[Michael Moffa]

If I remember correctly rom reading it here a few months ago, PB used a 20" circle for patterning.

[Dave Noreen]

If I remember correctly rom reading it here a few months ago, PB used a 20" circle for patterning.

The pattern circle diameter and distance changed over time. The earliest tag I've saved a picture of that shows the Brothers P using the "standard" 30-inch circle at forty yards is in the 117xxx range. The hang-tag for the gun in question shows the 30-inch circle at forty yards.

85005

[Dean Romig]

There was also a period during which the patterning ‘circle’ was actually an oval... something like 18” X 24” or some such. Chuck can verify the dimensions. I don’t know if the oval was in a “portrait” position or “landscape” position though.






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[Chuck Bishop]

The very first guns were patterned using 18 x 24" at 45 yards. I'm guessing it was an oval. Then it was 24" at 45 yards, then finally 30" at 40 yards. I think the small gouges were patterned at shorter distances sometimes. The stock books when copied many times would not show the distances. The book was too long for the copier.

[John Knobelsdorf II]

30 inches at 40 yards, as per 4 hangtags.

http://parkerguns.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50874&d=1477448771

The serial numbers are from a period running at least 22 years.

From 1904 through 1926. Approximately 100,000 were produced in that date range alone.

Wishing I could know the chamber length of # 125594 and # 216599 because the tags say to use 2 3/4 inch long shells. I would expect at least the earlier (if not both) of the two (2) to measure in the chambers at 2 1/2 inch or 2 5/8 inch (instead of 2 6/8ths).

Note, in the event someone more experienced at this can deduce something by knowing this too:

125594 is D2 H 0 S 12 30

216599 is V H 0 S 12 34

[Dave Noreen]

Here is a picture of a hang-tag from The Parker Story. The tag carries the odd line -- Length of Shell 2 5/8 Inches
and right below that Use Shells 2 3/4 Long.

85018

I recall seeing a hang-tag that has a Chamber Length ____ Inches and a Use Shells ____ Long, but I couldn't find it right now.

In the book The Parker Story the Remington vintage specification sheets on pages 164 to 169 call for a chamber 1/8-inch shorter than the shell for which it is intended.

[Dave Noreen]

Interestingly I also noted a 20-gauge hang-tag in The Parker Story with the same 100 and 150 pellet counts as the hang-tag for the gun in question.

85020

[Chuck Bishop]

I'd like to see a tag for 28ga. I wonder if these tags were generic for all gauges?

[James L. Martin]

I would also like to see a 28ga hang tag. Anyone got one to share?

[Dave Noreen]

So far all the hang-tags I've seen are for 12-, 16- or 20-gauges. Would love to see some for 8-, 10- & 28-gauges and .410-bore.

I'd also really like to see hang-tags for 10- and 16-gauge Remington Hammerless Doubles.

[Larry Stauch]

I'd like to see a tag for 28ga. I wonder if these tags were generic for all gauges?


Well Chuck I'll let you know. I have a 28 gauge DHE that has the serial number in the hang tag list and I'm going to send it in today. I'll post it when I get it back.

[Dean Romig]

Congratulations Larry - you are one of the very lucky few!





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[Chuck Bishop]

Larry, I think you mean your sending in for a Work Order Tag. WOT's don't list patterning distance, just full/full etc. if it's listed at all.

[Larry Stauch]

Yes, you're right Chuck.:banghead:

[James L. Martin]

Here is a photo of hang tag from a Parker 410 that was for sale here on Jun 18 2012.

[Garry L Gordon]

Another verification that .410s were targeted at 30 yards. Thanks for posting!