Tight Chokes !!

[Randy G Roberts]

I am presently working with a seller to acquire a long barreled 12 gauge 1924 GHE, #2 frame, trap configuration with .728 bores, 2 3/4" chambers, and good MWT. What has me puzzled are the choke constrictions with both barrels being measured by a knowledgeable seller as being .062 and .064, wow ! I have never heard of constrictions as such in a Parker. Anyone here have any knowledge of chokes such as these, thoughts ? There are no surviving records on this one BTW.

[Daryl Corona]

Never. There is obviously a mistake in there somewhere Randy. I can see a measurement of .696 or so but even if those constrictions were correct I would bet that you could'nt get a decent pattern from them.

[Randy G Roberts]

Never. There is obviously a mistake in there somewhere Randy.

That's what I am thinking as well Daryl.

[Dean Romig]

Maybe the barrels were back-bored (jug choked) to get a constriction like that... those chokes are about .010" tighter than any Parker 12 I have ever heard of.





.

[John Davis]

Wow! You could shoot that one from the 47 yard handicap line.

[Brian Dudley]

I think I recall seeing as much as 60-70 thou on an SBT once. But I may be off on thinking that.

[Randy G Roberts]

I have been "forced" to buy it. I have handled the gun previously but I did not measure the chokes then. More to follow :corn:

[Mills Morrison]

Wow! Can't wait to hear more about this one.

[Brett Hoop]

The Forced Be With You

[Dean Romig]

I have been "forced" to buy it.

Well when you're "forced" to shoot it please share your patterns with us and at what yardages it continues to be effective.

Oh, and I trust you'll be taking your own measurements....:whistle:





.

[Randy G Roberts]

The Forced Be With You

Good one.

[Randy G Roberts]

[QUOTE=Dean Romig;298482]Well when you're "forced" to shoot it please share your patterns with us and at what yardages it continues to be effective.

Oh, and I trust you'll be taking your own measurements....:whistle:

Absolutely and I hope not to prove this seller wrong but surely something is amiss here. More to follow.

[todd allen]

With modern ammo once you get to about 25 to 30k in a 12 gauge, any additional constriction does little to tighten the pattern.
Also, with modern ammo, going tighter than 50k might actually open your pattern.

[Reggie Bishop]

Good thing we don’t shoot modern ammo in our classic shotguns!

[Rich Anderson]

I have a BHE live bird gun thats .050 in each barrel if I remember correctly. This has 30 inch Damascus barrels.

[scott kittredge]

Just a fyi. I did 2 test patterns with shells i got from my dad that were made in the late 30's or early 40s. They were 1 oz 12 ga 4 s. I did 2 test at 40 yds bench rest with .035 choke and got 80% both times. So from the 2 shots i tested was just as good as "modern amo". I too think there is a limit to choke construction before it blows the pattern.
Scott

[Randy G Roberts]

I have a BHE live bird gun thats .050 in each barrel if I remember correctly. This has 30 inch Damascus barrels.

That's a tight one Rich. Ever pattern it ?

[Milton C Starr]

While not a fixed choke gun , I once had a custom made choke tube for a 12 ga that was .660" and about 4" long . It patterned everything between #8 to #5s extremely tight but uniform .

Would be interesting to see how a fixed choke that tight patterns .

[todd allen]

Good thing we don’t shoot modern ammo in our classic shotguns!

When I say modern, I'm referring to shot cups.
Virtually all of us shoot "modern" ammo in our guns, unless you're still using black powder and felt wads.

[Rich Anderson]

That's a tight one Rich. Ever pattern it ?

No I haven't. Steve Barnett has had it for sale for a while. I have a Fox CE straight grip with 32 inch barrels. It's not quite as tight but as I don't need two I'll take the Parker back and sell the Fox. I was going to get it at the southern but now will wait for Hauemans

[John Allen]

I had a DH with .045" choke in each barrel.With older paper shells it patterned around 75% with good even distribution.With "modern" ammo it threw donuts with no pellets in the center of the pattern.I think the tight chokes caused the pellets to cross as they left the muzzle.I killed a couple of turkeys with old ammo and then sold it.I never could get it to pattern any ammo that had a shot cup.

[Mills Morrison]

I am using a 12 GH I bought from John with .40 chokes.

[John Dallas]

My 12 gauge Fox Sterly is .044 in each barrel

[Paul Harm]

Some of us, with nothing better to do in retirement, load short shells that demand fiber wads . Well, at least as of yet, I haven't bought any short wads from BPI, so fiber are mandatory for a good crimp. I get told it looks like confetti. It distracts you when shooting. Well, at least for the first couple of shots. And, surprise, surprise, there's some leading in the barrel to be removed. Something I normally don't experience with modern loads.

[todd allen]

I am presently working with a seller to acquire a long barreled 12 gauge 1924 GHE, #2 frame, trap configuration with .728 bores, 2 3/4" chambers, and good MWT. What has me puzzled are the choke constrictions with both barrels being measured by a knowledgeable seller as being .062 and .064, wow ! I have never heard of constrictions as such in a Parker. Anyone here have any knowledge of chokes such as these, thoughts ? There are no surviving records on this one BTW.

I spoke to a friend yesterday who has done extensive pattern and ballistic testing with all kinds of loads and choke constrictions, including going North of 50k constriction. (He has tested up to 55k all in a 12 ga.)
He says that in his experience 50 k is where patterns start going the other way with shot cup ammo. (note clever avoidance of "modern")
Patterns were good and even with the ultra tight chokes, but measured larger diameter patterns.
He speculated that with vintage type shells the 60 some thousands chokes might throw pretty good and of course tight patterns.
Gonna have to put this one on paper and see what it does.

[Randy G Roberts]

The subject gun actually arrived Thursday afternoon. I have had a chance to do a full evaluation and measuring of this gun. As it turns out the dealer with 40 years of experience does not know how to measure barrels. That really did not surprise me one bit as I did not fully expect this gun to be choked as was indicated. I hope that I have time in the next day or two to add another post to this thread and which I intend to show what the dealer indicated the gun to be versus reality. I think you will find it interesting. At the end of the day I'd previously handled this gun and I'm still thrilled with it. It is a beast, even if it doesn't have 60 thou constrictions.

[Reggie Bishop]

The subject gun actually arrived Thursday afternoon. I have had a chance to do a full evaluation and measuring of this gun. As it turns out the dealer with 40 years of experience does not know how to measure barrels. That really did not surprise me one bit as I did not fully expect this gun to be choked as was indicated. I hope that I have time in the next day or two to add another post to this thread and which I intend to show what the dealer indicated the gun to be versus reality. I think you will find it interesting. At the end of the day I'd previously handled this gun and I'm still thrilled with it. It is a beast, even if it doesn't have 60 thou constrictions.


:corn:

[Mills Morrison]

Yeah, not a big surprise, but still sounds like a very desirable gun

[todd allen]

Not meaning to "wish" anything on anyone's gun(s), but I was really looking forward to learning something new about Parker chokes, and maybe something about how 60 some thousandths chokes perform on paper. Hopefully the new gun works out well for Randy.

[Randy G Roberts]

As previously mentioned this is a gun that I had handled before so I was at least somewhat familiar with it although I did not take measurements previously. As I stated before some of the information as provided by the seller was suspect. Following is a brief list of some of the discrepancies, some are trivial, others not :
Seller Reality
RB constriction .062 .034
LB constriction .064 .041
R bore dia. .728 .732
L bore dia. .728 .733
Chambers 2 3/4 2 7/8
LOP 14 1/2 14 5/8
Weight 8-7 8-9.6

The constriction issue really is not an issue as I never truly expected them to be that tight, sure would have been cool though. Could have been the tightest Parker double ever. The remaining discrepancies cause me no real concern but it just makes me wonder how someone in the biz for so long can get these things wrong.

At the end of the day this is one really cool gun with unmolested barrels that measure 34 1/16", BTFE, with a RKPG stock with some figure. Engraving is very good and the screws are not perfect but they are really good. Gun is tight on face and is in need of a good cleaning. It has a rock hard Silvers pad that needs replaced. I believe the gun to be in original unaltered condition with some decent cc remaining.

This one really speaks to me, as such I have been in contact with Brian Dudley whom I have sent pics. We have had a discussion on this one and formulated a plan. As I sense a future PP article I am going to keep you in suspense and will not divulge the plan or post pics. More to follow at some point :bigbye:

[Reggie Bishop]

Randy as I have said before, you are a long barreled Parker magnet! Hey I have LOM case that gun might fit in! :cool:

[Randy G Roberts]

Randy as I have said before, you are a long barreled Parker magnet! Hey I have LOM case that gun might fit in! :cool:

Reggie:

"Might fit in", do you know the exact interior measurements so I can compare with barrel length including the rib extension ?

[Reggie Bishop]

I will let you know this afternoon.

[todd allen]

As previously mentioned this is a gun that I had handled before so I was at least somewhat familiar with it although I did not take measurements previously. As I stated before some of the information as provided by the seller was suspect. Following is a brief list of some of the discrepancies, some are trivial, others not :
Seller Reality
RB constriction .062 .034
LB constriction .064 .041
R bore dia. .728 .732
L bore dia. .728 .733
Chambers 2 3/4 2 7/8
LOP 14 1/2 14 5/8
Weight 8-7 8-9.6

The constriction issue really is not an issue as I never truly expected them to be that tight, sure would have been cool though. Could have been the tightest Parker double ever. The remaining discrepancies cause me no real concern but it just makes me wonder how someone in the biz for so long can get these things wrong.

At the end of the day this is one really cool gun with unmolested barrels that measure 34 1/16", BTFE, with a RKPG stock with some figure. Engraving is very good and the screws are not perfect but they are really good. Gun is tight on face and is in need of a good cleaning. It has a rock hard Silvers pad that needs replaced. I believe the gun to be in original unaltered condition with some decent cc remaining.

This one really speaks to me, as such I have been in contact with Brian Dudley whom I have sent pics. We have had a discussion on this one and formulated a plan. As I sense a future PP article I am going to keep you in suspense and will not divulge the plan or post pics. More to follow at some point :bigbye:

Reminds me of a deal I did with a fairly well known dealer out of Texas.
A nice Dollar Grade Lifter. Saw the ad in DGJ, and wanted the gun really bad. Even with the steep drop at heel, as reported over the phone, I thought, oh well, I can still shoot it with a comb pad.
When it arrived, the dimensions were totally modern. Seems they measured the drop with the gun sitting on the hammers