New member from Brawley, Ca

[Edward Hale]

Greetings, I 'm a new member here and could use your help in learning more about a 10 gauge Dbl barrel Parker Brothers shotgun that was just given to me by a great friend. The serial number is 65871 indicating a manufacturing date of 1891. There is no grade marking. The barrel rib is marked Laminated steel. The barrel lug is marked with a 5. The barrel weight is marked with a small 8 followed by a large 1. Above those markings is an H next to the lug. left of the weight marking is an L. The gun is rather plain and without scrollwork. The stock is checkered. There is a silver inlaid crest on the top of the pistol grip, rear of the break-open lever. This gun looks like new, unfortunately, someone in the past has reblued this gun. What can you tell me about this gun?, besides that the value was greatly diminished by the re-blueing. :nono: Thanks and Regards, Ed

[Patrick Lien]

Ed,
Your gun started life as a 36" 10ga. Based on your description it appears to be made on a #5 frame. This is unusual for a 10ga. If you can post some pictures I am sure you will get some feedback on your gun.

PML

[Edward Hale]

I'm new to this site, how do I post pictures? Thank you for your response. Ed

[Patrick Lien]

when you reply to a post;
1. hit "Go Advanced"
2. hit "Manage attachments"
From there you can select photos from your computer/device.

PML

[Edward Hale]

Thank You. Will do.

[John Davis]

Sounds like a very interesting gun. Do the barrels still measure 36 inches?

[Edward Hale]

Yes, it measures 36 and 3/8 inches.

[Reggie Bishop]

Very nice looking Parker. Thanks for posting. I would encourage you to join the PGCA. There is a wealth of knowledge among this membership and great bunch of folk!!

[Bill Murphy]

We need to see pictures of the small 8 and the big 1. We also want to see the 5 on the lug. If you have a scale, can you weigh the whole gun?
Thanks.

[Edward Hale]

Her is the barrel markings

[Craig Larter]

Looks like 1 of 4 in that configuration, very rare and unusual. Thanks for posting.

[Edward Hale]

I don't have an accurate scale here, but using our digital bathroom scale it appears to weigh 12.2 lbs. Ed

[Edward Hale]

1 of 4 ? Wow, if not for the rebluing . . . .

[Patrick Lien]

It looks like a 5 frame 10 to me. You have an interesting gun Ed. If your gym is on lock down you can just tote that gun around for 30 minutes and get your workout.:)

PML

[Patrick Lien]

1 of 4 ? Wow, if not for the rebluing . . . .

I don't see anything that cannot be fixed. It is rare enough to do so in my opinion.

PML

[Edward Hale]

Tell me more. I'm all ears.

[Matt Buckley]

Do the barrels measure the full 36”?

[Edward Hale]

Yes, it measures 36 and 3/8 inches. Wear some of these cut down?

[Edward Hale]

Sorry, typing and answering the phone leads to poor spelling.

[Craig Larter]

It is a rare and worth a partial restoration. The blue can easily be removed by one of our Parker craftsman. The barrels could be refinished to their original color, laminate is stunning if finished properly. The gun also could be shot pending a examination by a barrels guy. VERY exciting gun congratulations!!

[Edward Hale]

Can you recommend someone to do the restoration work? The barrels look great inside. I don't know about hunting with the thing. The guy who did must have been a big dude. It's HEAVY. I once held a 13mm Mouser rifle, an anti-armor trench gun from WW1. It wasn't much heavier. Regards, Ed

[Milton C Starr]

Can you recommend someone to do the restoration work? The barrels look great inside. I don't know about hunting with the thing. The guy who did must have been a big dude. It's HEAVY. I once held a 13mm Mouser rifle, an anti-armor trench gun from WW1. It wasn't much heavier. Regards, Ed

Theres a few guys here who can do it and it will look amazing when finish .
I think if you look in the damascus barrel part of the forum youll see their work .

Assuming the barrels are safe to shoot , with the 1 1/8 oz RST loads that #5 frame would barely recoil .

[Edward Hale]

I'm sure that you are right, but the recoil does not bother me, it the sherpa that I am going to have to hire to carry it around! Thank you, I will look for someone in that section. Regards, Ed

[Patrick Lien]

Ed,
If this is something you want to keep and restore then I would suggest that you first join the PGCA and then order a factory letter on this gun. It was special ordered for sure and the letter may provide some details about who ordered the gun and where it was originally shipped. Then plan on spending a few years finding and scheduling the work to put the gun closer to what original would be. Your gun is unique because of the frame size and the barrel length. It was built BIG for a reason and the letter would be the place to start if you like chasing history. Go slow! Good luck!


PML

[Edward Hale]

I am filling out a request form for a letter right now. I can trace it back through the last two owners (going back to about 1930) I'm not too sure of the ownership before that. In your opinion is the value high enough do to its rarity, to justify the cost of the restoration work when you consider that it has been reblued? Or put another way, If I find someone to do the restoration work what is the likely value when completed? I don't plan to sell, but if it gains in value by restoring it, it makes it easier to justify the expense. Regards. Ed

[Patrick Lien]

I am filling out a request form for a letter right now. I can trace it back through the last two owners (going back to about 1930) I'm not too sure of the ownership before that. In your opinion is the value high enough do to its rarity, to justify the cost of the restoration work when you consider that it has been reblued? Or put another way, If I find someone to do the restoration work what is the likely value when completed? I don't plan to sell, but if it gains in value by restoring it, it makes it easier to justify the expense. Regards. Ed


Ed,
The value of your gun is really what someone is willing to pay. I will offer my opinion on value and the folks here may agree or not depending on their perspective.

If your gun was on a table at a gun show for 2-3K I would consider buying it because of the frame size and barrel length. I would then plan on spending another 1k+ to have the barrels properly refinished and the blueing removed, and ???. After all of that was done I would not necessarily plan on getting my money back if I sold it but I would have a very cool big frame 10ga with long barrels and sometimes that is a better outcome than making dollars. If the end goal is money then leave the gun as is and put it on gunbroker for $1. It will sell for exactly what it is worth(tbd).

PML

[Edward Hale]

Here is a picture of the complete gun

[Edward Hale]

Thank you very much for sharing your opinion, I really do appreciate it. The gun was given to me by a very good friend and because of this, it has intrinsic value to me. I'm not planning on selling it. The idea of restoring it as much as possible interests me, but I don't want to through good money after bad either. Regards, Ed

[charlie cleveland]

nice 10 gauge with rare long barrels...and on a 5 frame thats unusal for sure most 10 ga were on 3 frames....its a cool gun anyway you look at it...if it was my gun i would have to take it hunting...charlie

[Milton C Starr]

I would probably just have the barrels redone and leave the rest as is , a partial restoration .


Its a beautiful and rare Parker regardless .

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Edward, You should join the PGCA the benefits out weigh the cost, as far as value, hard to tell unless it is in your hands and know the BWT and such things the laminated barrels will be stunning when refinished, I count them right up with Bernard brls. I love Parker hammer guns and own a few, For your info I bought a 16gauge with 38 inch barrels on a 0 frame with milled out receiver, these long barrel guns are rare and hard to find, prices on these guns are pretty steep, so consider, Gary

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Wow, what a gun, and I am generally not a big bore guy. If it were mine, I would strip the bluing off the receiver and other parts that are supposed to be case colored. I would redo those laminate barrels, they will look stunning--maybe someone will post a picture of their redone laminate barrels for you to see. Not so sure I would recase color the receiver, I like the nice patina of a well used gun.
How do the bores look? Even if the gun was lightly honed, there is probably plenty of wall thickness there. Dave Fjelline in Lincoln, Ca. could evaluate those barrels for you.

[Edward Hale]

Thank You! to everyone here who has responded with your information and advice. What a great bunch of people. I have learned more in one afternoon than I would have, spending days on the internet (and still would not have gotten this far). I am going to ask my friend some questions about the woman who left him this gun many years ago, It seems that she worked for a rather famous (infamous?) cowboy as an accountant (with benefits!). She was a very capable and tough-minded businesswoman who oversaw and managed her boss's investments. I'll try to get that story straight and report back. I will also be joining PGCA and ordering a letter on this gun. Thanks again to all of you for your generosity and information. Regards, Ed Hale

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Looking forward to hearing more about your gun.

[Gerald McPherson]

Join first order letter second and you will save money instantly. Great big gun and great gun. Gerald

[Larry Stauch]

You could go a few more lifetimes and never find another one of those.

Brawley California is only 55 miles SW of the Cibola National Wildlife Refuge which sits on the Colorado river. Thousands of migrating geese and ducks lift off the river every morning in the fall and go to the fields to eat.
Can you imagine that 10 gauge with some non tox shot swinging on a flock of decoying geese.
How great would that be. And it's doable.:cool:

[Edward Hale]

I appreciate your comments. I manage some farm property very near the Cebola Wildlife refuge. I have never hunted the river, but I have taken my share of honkers, ducks, pheasants, doves, and quail, here in Imperial Valley and the Salton Sea area over the years. I think your right, the two things that would overcome the considerable weight of this gun would be the romantic idea of hunting with a 129-year-old shotgun and the adrenalin rush of having a flock of honkers drop in on a spread of decoys. Regards, Ed

[Edward Hale]

If you fellows could recommend a shortlist of gunsmiths who can do a great job of removing the blueing and any other restoration work that this gun may need to get it back into as original condition as possible, I would be very grateful. I want to start a conversation with them and learn as much as I can about this gun. I have joined the PGCA and sent off a request for a letter on this gun. Thanks again to everyone for your hospitality and for sharing your considerable knowledge. Regards, Ed

[Milton C Starr]

If you fellows could recommend a shortlist of gunsmiths who can do a great job of removing the blueing and any other restoration work that this gun may need to get it back into as original condition as possible, I would be very grateful. I want to start a conversation with them and learn as much as I can about this gun. I have joined the PGCA and sent off a request for a letter on this gun. Thanks again to everyone for your hospitality and for sharing your considerable knowledge. Regards, Ed

Alot of people here use Bachelders for restoration work .
https://www.mastergunmakers.com/contact

You can contact Parker Bachelder on here as hes a member .
Heres some photos of their work .

https://www.facebook.com/pg/bachelders/photos/?ref=page_internal

Congrats on joining one of the best double gun forums .

[Reggie Bishop]

Brian Dudley, a member here, could also assist you with this.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Dave Fjelline in Lincoln, California may be your closest. Plus, he is a long barrel, hammer gun affecionado, and would give you a good honest answer--but any of the other names mentioned are also top knotch.

[Craig Larter]

My vote would be for Breck Gorman to refinish the barrels he does beautiful work that equals original Parker colors and craftsmanship expect to pay $400. plus for a barrel refinish but you will not be disappointed, laminate barrels refinished will knock you over. Removing the blue is pretty simple, I would highly recommend Brian Dudley but I'm not sure if he would take on this type of work.
I have a 36" 7 frame top lever D that weights 15 pounds and I have shot many ducks with the beast so I would encourage you to shoot and hunt with your baby 5 frame. Craig Larter

[Brian Dudley]

A major concern with this gun that I see is of the barrels have been hot blued or not. If they have, you may have a LOT more work than a simple refinish in store for you.

They need to be evaluated closely to know what may have been done to them in the past and how to take it forward.

With a gun like this, it is rare, but it is also a low grade. In most cases it does not make financial sense to restore such a gun. But if you are not interested in financial gain, then it doesn't matter. And that is really the better place to be so that the proper work can be done to it. You do it for the gun, not the money.

[Edward Hale]

Craig, Do you use a turret? I carry a 60ies model 51 12 ga Winchester autoloader with a fiberglass barrel (steel lined) and an aluminum alloy frame. I guess I'm spoiled. Ed

[Edward Hale]

Mr. Dudley, I hear what you're saying and it's good advice. Financial gain from this gun is not my motive. Spending money foolishly is not my motive either. I will take the advice of the members here and go slow, learn as much as I can about this gift, and if I feel that the restoration work enhances the value of the gun or my enjoyment of it, I'll go forward with restoring it. Thanks and regards. Ed

[Brian Dudley]

Well, if the gun owes you nothing, that is a great place to start.

[Edward Hale]

Well, I received my letter from the Parker Gun Collectors Association. My gun started life as a grade 1, 10 gauge hammer gun, with laminated steel 36-inch barrels, both full choke, LOP 14 inches, capped pistol grip, 4-inch drop at the heel, and a weight of 12 lbs 5 ounces. It was ordered by Mr. George E. Kohler of Tombstone Arizona Jan 21, 1891, and shipped June 17, 1891. The price paid was $80.00 (equivalent to $2,274.09 in 2020 dollars), Mr. Kohler, among his other ventures, was an auctioneer who sold furniture in Tombstone, he was also a founding member of the Freemason's in Arizona, serving as the first Grand Patron. This shotgun was ordered ten years after Sheriff Virgil Earp and his brother, deputy Wyatt Earp shot it out at the OK Corral on October 26 1881. Several of Mr. Kohler's relatives are buried in the same cemetery as the outlaws from the Ok Corral shoot out.

[Milton C Starr]

Well, I received my letter from the Parker Gun Collectors Association. My gun started life as a grade 1, 10 gauge hammer gun, with laminated steel 36-inch barrels, both full choke, LOP 14 inches, capped pistol grip, 4-inch drop at the heel, and a weight of 12 lbs 5 ounces. It was ordered by Mr. George E. Kohler of Tombstone Arizona Jan 21, 1891, and shipped June 17, 1891. The price paid was $80.00 (equivalent to $2,274.09 in 2020 dollars), Mr. Kohler, among his other ventures, was an auctioneer who sold furniture in Tombstone, he was also a founding member of the Freemason's in Arizona, serving as the first Grand Patron. This shotgun was ordered ten years after Sheriff Virgil Earp and his brother, deputy Wyatt Earp shot it out at the OK Corral on October 26 1881. Several of Mr. Kohler's relatives are buried in the same cemetery as the outlaws from the Ok Corral shoot out.

I have been to Tombstone before and Bisbee , my little brother was stationed about 20 miles from there . Thats some neat history , I wish I knew what these fellows had on their mind when ordering these large frame 10 gauges .

[Edward Hale]

Me too! There is not a lot of waterfowl in that area. They did have lots of outlaws and Indians! Interestingly on the same order, Mr. Kohler also ordered another 10 gauge gun with 36-inch twist barrels, The LOP was 14 1/4 inches, but this gun only weighed 10 1/2 lbs, he also ordered an extra set of 12 gauge 36 inch barrel's for that gun.

[Brian Dudley]

4" drop! Wow!

[Milton C Starr]

Me too! There is not a lot of waterfowl in that area. They did have lots of outlaws and Indians! Interestingly on the same order, Mr. Kohler also ordered another 10 gauge gun with 36-inch twist barrels, The LOP was 14 1/4 inches, but it only weighed 10 1/2 lbs. He also ordered an extra set of barrel's for my gun, in 12 gauge 36 inch, which unfortunately I do not have.

Reminds me of the western movie appaloosa where one of the protagonist uses a long barreled 8 gauge .

10 1/2 lbs is still a meaty weight for a 10 ga , most of the ones I see from that time period seem to be in the 9.5lb range .

Perhaps he used it for rabbits instead of waterfowl ?