Update on FEDEX and my dented 32" barrel..

[Jerry VanHorn]

Breck filed the paperwork and photos with these bastards. Bear in mind that they accepted the PVC tube..and took his money for the insurance. They have not been keeping up with phone calls, etc. He got an Email today saying they denied the claim because the PVC tube was not in a cardboard box. We will appeal...but we're probably screwed.. Remember this next time you need a shipper....

[Mills Morrison]

That really stinks

[John Campbell]

Mills is the legal expert here, but I believe that if the company/clerk accepted the package as-is, then the implication is that it met their standards/requirements for shipment. i.e., they cannot claim the container as an excuse to deny responsibility. In other words, call a real lawyer.

[Jerry VanHorn]

Mills... I talked to a dealer yesterday the went through the same thing with FEDEX. They shipped a high grade Remington Model 10 trap gun. It arrived with the stock broken in 2 pieces at the wrist...and was hit hard enough to bend the stock bolt..

[Brian Dudley]

I am not at all surprised. That is how these guys work. All of them.

And believe me, shipping insurance is the biggest rip-off going. Just because they take your money for insurance is in no way a guarantee that they will pay if something happens.
Come to think of it, insurance in general is a rip-off.

You guys can debate on who is worse than who in the shipping game, but the truth is; the best shipper is the one who hasn't pissed you off lately. Because they all eventually will.

[Jerry VanHorn]

The acceptance would seem to be the key...BUT..We all know what litigation involves. Obviously, FEDEX can bury the little guy, and it would just be business as usual for them....

[Brian Dudley]

Fed-ex and UPS will ship tires with just a label slapped on them... just sayin.

A funny story along the lines of things being in boxes.
I bought about 50 stock blanks from the estate of a deceased gunsmith not long ago. Most of them were from the 1960s.
There were two or three very high quality Myrtle rifle blanks that were still addressed and had the postage stickers (from the mid ‘60s) on them from when he bought them from the dealer.
The postal service just mailed the blank as it was. No box or nothing. I chuckled when seeing that.

[Jerry VanHorn]

I have always used USPS. In fact, that same tube has been to Calif. Ct. Virginia..and other places along the way. In 13 years, I have had one claim..and the USPS sent me a check before the 60 day period was up.

[Brian Hornacek]

Their job is to deny all claims. I have attempted claims on 10 occasions, fed-ex and UPS have denied all attempts, USPS paid in full.

UPS and Fed-ex love to deny due to box allowable weight limit, it’s the round seal you find on the end of most boxes. Also if you modify the original box in any way, build a box, tape over holes of a box and in this case use an unapproved shipping container. Both the big boys rejected shipments in round tubes from me saying they would roll around in the truck. From my experience they will accept anything, sell you insurance on anything and pay on pretty much nothing.

Brian Dudley and I are on the same page with these bandits!

Good luck!

[Bill Murphy]

I don't know who accepted the stocks for shipment that Dudley mentioned, but I am assuming the Post Office was not the shipper. The customer was. The customer made the decision on how to wrap them. To expand on that, I received an English Walnut blank from the West Coast that was addressed to me, on the wood, with black magic marker. It didn't and doesn't have a scratch on it.

[Phil Yearout]

Seems to me that at the time of acceptance they should say "Doesn't meet our packaging requirements, can't insure, ship as is at your own risk, or re-package it." If they do in fact accept it, and insure it, then they are saying it passes their requirements, and therefore they accept responsibility. I'm not an attorney and don't even play one on the radio, so whatta I know. I know they got deeper pockets than the rest of us, but I'd guess a good attorney could get them to pay up, and it would probably only take a letter. Might cost you more than it's worth, however, which is what most claim denials are all about anyway.

[CraigThompson]

Fed-ex and UPS will ship tires with just a label slapped on them... just sayin.

A funny story along the lines of things being in boxes.
I bought about 50 stock blanks from the estate of a deceased gunsmith not long ago. Most of them were from the 1960s.
There were two or three very high quality Myrtle rifle blanks that were still addressed and had the postage stickers (from the mid ‘60s) on them from when he bought them from the dealer.
The postal service just mailed the blank as it was. No box or nothing. I chuckled when seeing that.

I’ve shipped several guns in wooden boxes and UPS wouldn’t accept unless we covered the boxes with cardboard . We’ve also had several broken things with UPS and so far (knock on wood) we’ve come out ahead of the game . Not to say that won’t change the next time but so far so good .

[CraigThompson]

Brownell’s used to ship parts in nice white cardboard reusable boxes , then all of a sudden it stopped . Seems they had a uproar with UPS or USPS and they stopped seems they were told these boxes weren’t strong enough . Now they send stuff in FLIMSY sloppy padded envelopes with the parts flopping around inside . But that crap meets specs :eek:

[Garth Gustafson]

When you purchase insurance for ANYTHING, it’s critical that you understand and follow the terms and conditions exactly (ie the fine print). And sometimes you really need to hunt to find it. This is where they spell out their liability. It’s really the only way you can defend yourself if you have a claim.

[William Davis]

Claims and liability aside.

Few shipping companies own the long distance conveyance. It’s contracted out to trucks or rail-truck piggyback & less often airplanes. Trailers are 9 feet high inside and packages are stacked without regard to packing or continents. Your package could be on the bottom or top.

Only defense is good packaging, and the best is not always good enough.

William

[Rick Losey]

Claims and liability aside.

Few shipping companies own the long distance conveyance. It’s contracted out to trucks or rail-truck piggyback & less often airplanes. Trailers are 9 feet high inside and packages are stacked without regard to packing or continents. Your package could be on the bottom or top.

Only defense is good packaging, and the best is not always good enough.

William

but, i think the point here was that the outside packaging was not damaged, but the barrels were

[Mike Franzen]

Several years ago I started a thread about a Parker I had shipped UPS on the old forum. I think it was titled They Broke My Gun. The stock was broken at the wrist when it arrived at a wrong destination in the wrong state. I was forewarned my claim would be denied initially and it was. Seems they deny claims out of hand. In fact UPS told me they don’t even ship guns. So, I filed a claim in Small Claims Court against UPS. I won, they paid up. No attorney’s fees.

[Dean Romig]

When shipping barrels only I use a rigid PVC tube with a cap glued on one end and PVC/NPT cap on the other end and when I tighten the NPT cap in place I drill and safety-wire it in place.
Then I put the sealed tube inside a long triangular cardboard shipping box and in the “To” address I never use the word “gun” or “firearm”.... sometimes just using the name of the owner and the business address without the business name.

Sounds like overkill but it has always worked well for me.





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[charlie cleveland]

i had a stock broken a few years ago ...i just fixed it myself and hoped it would not happen again so far so good...some times these boys pay and sometimes they dont....i m glad these barrels were able to be fixed....charlie

[William Davis]

I use the PVC inside a cardboard box too. Leave space around the PVC for compressible padding like Peanuts or bubble wrap. It’s about the best I can do. Go inside one of the mechanized distribution centers watch conveyor belts & forklifts working fast as they can. Workers are monitored on production something falls off the belt they get no credit for stopping to pick it up. Call a supervisor is the best they can do.

I worked for shipowners in various capacity’s whole career. We never touched any cargo ourselves all handling with contractors one way or the other. Most times little choice available labor or terminals. Many years I had “commercial settlement” claims authority . Some rejected by the claims department elevated to my desk. I looked at who filed the claim & the circumstances. Big customer one thing small shipper or low paying freight another.

One thing that always got my attention was legitimate threat of a lawsuit. Test was would a reasonable person think it was our fault. We avoided lawyers, Claimant or our own, if at all possible. If the claim amount was within my authority level always paid rather than go to court.

It’s a gamble no matter how you look at it.

William

[Matt Buckley]

I have shipped several guns over time and, knock on wood, have never had a problem with damage but I am always a little apprehensive till the gun makes it to its destination.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

I have been fortunate shipping with UPS Always in wooden boxes or metal gun cases they have never refused my wooden boxes, they pick up at my house, do not know if that makes a difference , Gary

[John Allen]

I quit using FedEx years ago.They delivered a Midas grade Browning to a customer in California with tire tracks on the box. Fortunately the customer took photos of the box before he opened it.Someone had backed a truck over it and totaled the gun.It took some time but I got paid the full insured amount.I have used UPS since and so far have never had a problem.All of these companies have people who can tear up a steel ball with a rubber hammer.

[Richard Flanders]

From all stories like this above and similar ones that have been shared over the years here, just try to imagine how many valuable and unreplaceable guns have been destroyed by the various shippers in total and what the total monetary loss has been. Scary and sad to even think about.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Don't ship a lot, but generally use USPS. I ship my guns in an old Leg 'O Muttun case inside a cardboard box

[Eric Eis]

Funny story sort of,

Thirty years ago, I was restoring a Parker Trojan 20 ga, but I had my gunsmith ship the receiver and barrels to Doug Turnbull he packaged the gun with the receiver in a separate box with Doug's address on it and then packaged the barrels and the receiver box in a shipping box. Week later I get a call from Doug and he asks "I thought you were shipping all the metal, I've got a receiver and a trigger guard what's going on?" Good question my gunsmith filled a claim and about 3 months later I get a call from Doug and he says you won't believe it, the barrels just showed up, just the barrels with a string tag with Doug's address on it, no box no nothing just barrels. I asked how bad are they, and he laughed and said considering all they went through. not bad at all, no dents some small nicks but no problem because we were planning on reblueing them anyway. So no packing at all and they arrived in one piece :shock: Oh they were found in UPS's warehouse in Atlanta which is where lost goods go to. If I hadn't raised an uproar and pestered them with weekly phone calls probably never would have found them. So sometimes you just never know :rolleyes:

[Bill Zachow]

Back in the early days of the last century, Parker Bros would ship gun parts to customers with simply a string tag with the customers address. No packaging, just the part and the attached string tag. I have a size O widow peaked butt plate shipped to a customer in Maine. The string tag has Parker’s logo and return address.

[Dean Romig]

This is how I package barrels for shipping. After I seal the PVC tube with cemented caps and a safety-wired screw-in cap, I put it in a triangular shipping carton. I haven’t had a problem with this method.


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[Phil Yearout]

I sent a set of barrels just taped to a piece of wood, bubble wrapped, and inside a triangular shipping box. They were fine both ways. Man, am I feeling lucky :eek:!

[Stan Hillis]

Many years go I saw a $500 gun for sale online at McDonald's Gunshop in Australia. I called and struck a deal on the I. Hollis SLNE. He verified it as pre-1898 and sent it to me USPS. When it arrived in a flimsy cardboard box I opened the box to find that the gun was wrapped in several layers of newspaper, with a little more stuffed in around it. Not a scratch on the beautiful English walnut, or the metal. He hadn't even insured it.

Sometimes you just get lucky.

SRH

[Eric Eis]

Many years go I saw a $500 gun for sale online at McDonald's Gunshop in Australia. I called and struck a deal on the I. Hollis SLNE. He verified it as pre-1898 and sent it to me USPS. When it arrived in a flimsy cardboard box I opened the box to find that the gun was wrapped in several layers of newspaper, with a little more stuffed in around it. Not a scratch on the beautiful English walnut, or the metal. He hadn't even insured it.

Sometimes you just get lucky.

SRH

You should have played the Lotto that day ! :rotf::rotf::rotf:

[Jerry VanHorn]

End of Story...Breck talked to FEDEX again. They pretty much told him to pound sand....so..I guess it's over. The barrels were stripped and reblued after the dent was raised. Breck says they are perfect..Moral.?? Don't use fedex..and OVERPACK your items..

[Harold Lee Pickens]

I like to ship my guns in this old beat-up leg of mutton case and then inside a cardboard box. Luckily no trouble so far have always used USPS. The case will hold up to 30 inch barrels.

[Dean Romig]

I wasn't able to get out and buy a triangular corrugated shipping box so I built a wooden one like I do when I ship guns.

Sent it a few days ago and the barrels arrived yesterday safe and sound.

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[John Dallas]

Can't imagine what the shipping costs would be for that vault

[Dean Romig]

With insurance for $6k the shipping was $86

If the barrels were lost, destroyed or stolen the gun they belong to would be next to worthless. I feel justified.





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[John Dallas]

It's a shame you have to go to those lengths to ship things

[Dean Romig]

It's just the way things are these days. And I simply chose to do it this way rather than possibly being a victim to the times.





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[William Davis]

Dean thats a proper shipping package. Strong inner tube with additional outside box. Air space between the two isolates the inner pack & gun from knocks and bumps. Anything less is not properly packed.

Better to spend on the packing and weight/measure based freight than buy insurance thats not going to pay a damage claim. Key point the gun is not functional without the barrels and they are impossible to replace.

Manufacturers of most consumer products don't insure at all, loss rate fairly low, they just ship another and absorb the loss. Keeping careful records cost of loss vs cost of adequate packing & insurance. Thats the environment we ship collectable guns, different equation than the norm.

William

[Dean Romig]

I reminded myself after the fact that I didn't need to buy the insurance because all of my guns and parts of my guns are covered under my Eastern policy..... oh well, I'll know better next time... I hope.





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[Eric Eis]

I reminded myself after the fact that I didn't need to buy the insurance because all of my guns and parts of my guns are covered under my Eastern policy..... oh well, I'll know better next time... I hope.





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I was wondering about that Dean. :)

[edgarspencer]

There's always small claims court. Anything under $5K in CT goes to Small claims. Fedex may figure it's cheaper to pay than pay their lawyer.

[Gerry Addison]

I'm always amazed at how some guns are shipped to me. Many times I receive guns in their original cases with no packing inside whatsoever. Several times the guns have flopped around so much they totally destroy the inside of the cases. Makes you sick when you open them.
This just happened to me two weeks ago. I shipped a very nice english double to a very well known gunsmith. Wrapped the gun is specially treated paper, then two layers of bubblewrap sleeves for barrels and stock/receiver, put all this inside a plano plastic case, then inside a cardboard box stuffed with paper. All paper and bubblewrap was sealed with masking tape so it could be easily removed and reused. Waited three months for a repair. When I finally received it back the gun was in the plano case with no wrapping and the breech end of the barrel had taken a huge chunk out of the toe of the butt stock. I almost threw up when I opened the package. Now what????? Took the stock to a different smith to try a repair but the gun will never be the same. And to top that off the work done on the gun was terrible as well. Original smith did return my money for the repair $350 and said, "send it back and let me look at the stock". No way he gets it! Called my insurance company and at first they said they would cover the repair or replacement, but then they looked up the tracking and smith didn't send it signature required and they said the most they will pay is $400. I'm screwed.