Help with identification of Parker bros 10ga

[Kevin Quinn]

I have what I believe to be a 1878 Parker bros lifter action double barrel plain twist 10 ga. I think the barrel length is approximately 30" . It has a number 2 frame size with a (p) grade. Just trying figure it worth and if I can safely shoot it with hand loads of BP thanks.

[Jay Gardner]

No one can even begin to answer your questions without seeing photos of the frame, the stock, the barrels, and the serial number. Thanks

[Kevin Quinn]

I’m having trouble uploading my photos on the thread sorry I’ll try again
I think the pictures will be on this one. The serial number is 12545

[Matt Buckley]

What are the condition of the bores. If it is not to pitted it should be safe with black powder loads but it is good practice to have a gunsmith who is familiar with twist/Damascus barrels to inspect the barrels. It is always a good idea to have the minimum wall thickness of the barrels measured. At that point is you have plenty of thickness on the barrels you may decide to shoot low pressure smokeless loads as well.

[Steve Huffman]

Looks to had alot of heat applied to the barrel hook

[Kevin Quinn]

There is pitting throughout both barrels, I took it to my gunsmith to have him look everything over. I just wanted the opinion of this community because you all have a passion for these historic shotguns thanks I appreciate your input.

[Harry Collins]

Kevin,

I'm trying to wrap my head around the corrosion on the barrel flats. Is the receiver in the same condition? Was the gun stored with the barrels off the gun? I'll shoot most any Parker, but I hesitate recommending shooting this one on what I see.

Kindest, Harry

[Jerry Harlow]

Looks to had alot of heat applied to the barrel hook

Someone had a hard time removing the screw that holds the shell lifter out of the barrels. There is a hex-head screw in there now, from the enlarged photo.

[Kevin Quinn]

I'm not sure how it was stored I just purchased it a week ago, and the receiver is in better shape than the barrel flats.

[Kevin Quinn]

Is there no way to restore the barrels corrosion? I wish I had taken more pictures before I dropped it off at my smith. As long as the barrel thickness is above 20 thousand, and the pitting within the barrels isn't deep it should safe to shoot right?

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Hey Kevin, where you from--just asking 'cause I know a Kevin Quinn in West Virginia,and could take a look at it or point you in the right direction.

[Kevin Quinn]

Unfortunately I live in California, but from what I've read and all of your opinions so far, it seems like it's always up to the owner to take the risk of shooting the firearm. I've got some brass shells and black powder, so I'll see what my smith thinks, and go from there thanks everyone for your feed back I really appreciate it.

[Bill Murphy]

I have never measured the WT on my tens, but .030 sounds a lot better than .020. What do the rest of you think?

[Matt Buckley]

The barrels on my 10 have a mwt of .045. I think if you are dealing with original 10 gauge barrels you will be hard pressed to fine .030 mwt much less .020 but most everybody's opinion on this forum is .020 and up is safe to shoot.

[Drew Hause]

"As long as the barrel thickness is above 20 thousand, and the pitting within the barrels isn't deep it should safe to shoot right?"

No Kevin. If your gunsmith does not have the interest, expertise, and equipment (wall thickness gauge and bore scope) to properly evaluate the barrels, and can provide you with wall thickness measurements at the end of each chamber, the forcing cones, 9" from the breech, 9" from the muzzle and MWT and the location thereof, you need a second opinion. "Should be safe with light loads" is very dangerous advice.

[Harry Collins]

Kevin,

The patrons of this web forum have seen and discussed casualties of those that had a bad case of "The bound to's and can't help its." If you are so infected and decide to shoot your 140+ year old Parker with brass shells and black powder or Pyrodex CTG, etc. I suggest you load 1 oz of shot over 2 3/4 drams of powder. Use paper wads because plastic wads will melt a little on the way out the barrel. This leads to foul language when you clean the barrels. Are your brass shells extruded or turned? Oh, the load I mentioned will break clay targets all day long plus kill small game and birds. Most of us that shoot our old Parker 10's with modern powders load them lite with 1 1/8 oz at or under 1200 fps.

Kindesty, Harry

[Kevin Quinn]

Again thank you everyone for your insight and knowledge, I won't shoot it without an ok from a gun smith who knows what he's doing and has the proper tools to verify its safety. I'd rather be safe than sorry when it comes to antique firearms. And if it becomes a wall hanger so be it I'll cherish it just the same.

[Bill Murphy]

I guess we all realize that about 98% of licensed gunsmiths do not own or have access to a wall thickness gauge or a bore micrometer. You are your own gunsmith when it comes to barrel safety.

[Craig Budgeon]

Kevin, in the past damascus guns that I wanted to shoot I tested myself. I tied the top rib to the top of an inflated tire very securely. I then tied about 30 ft. of string to each trigger. At this point I loaded the gun with heavy loads, slid the safety to off, walked back to the end of string, laid flat on the ground wearing SAFETY GLASSES and a HARD HAT/HELMET, and with my face against the ground pulled each trigger individually. With the test completed I checked the gun dimensions against established dimensions which I had determined before the test. Finally look for cracks, bulges, loose ribs, barrels on face, and that bores conform to there previous condition. Utilizing this test built my confidence and I was able to enjoy the gun afield. Kevin in the end you have to determine what works for you.

[Harry Collins]

Firestone Test. I hid behind the bulldozer.

[Craig Budgeon]

Harry, is that an endorsement for Firestone tires?

[Harry Collins]

Craig, selecting a tire to strap a gun to is about like my selection of whiskey. I don't care what horse I ride so long as I get there.

[Kevin Quinn]

Got some more pictures if you all are willing to take another look. Thanks again to everyone’s responses.

[Kevin Quinn]

And some more

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Kevin, since you are in California, I would recommend having Dave Fjelline in Lincoln ,Ca., take a look at it. He has a passion for hammer guns--especially long barreled ones.
Just thinking, I wonder if Briley makes a 10ga to 12 ga conversion tube/insert that would allow you to safely shoot it--I believe they run around $600 installed.
I have recently been in your shoes. I picked up a 16 ga hammer gun with 34" twist barrels, a rare find. Unfortunately, it was in poor condition , and deemed unshootable in its current condition--still debating what to do with it.
I can get you Dave's # if you want

[Kevin Quinn]

That would be great I actually don’t live very far from Lincoln, it’s about 45mins from where I am. I’ve done some reading on the barrel inserts and I think that’s the route I’ll go if they are deemed unsafe as is.

[Matt Buckley]

Until you get the barrels inspected I don't think there is any reason to think your gun will be unsafe to shoot. The wood and the rest of the gun look like it is in very good shape and well taken care of. If the barrel wall thickness is good, which I suspect it will be, you will be good to go with RST or hand loads.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Yes, I agree with Matt--your gun look pretty good otherwise. I am sending Dave's inf to you by PM. Definitely take it over to Dave.

[Drew Hause]

What are the 3 ? nailheads in the medial wall of the right barrel?

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/18015717/414400853.jpg

"I don't think there is any reason to think your gun will be unsafe to shoot." is an opinion which none of us can justify based on pictures on the internet.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=491058&page=1

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/24513874/413569864.jpg

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Good eye Drew, none of us caught that. Cant imagine what that is. Even more, I think I would get Fjelline's opinion since he is less than an hour away. Keep us informed Kevin.

[charlie cleveland]

those nails or studs were probably put there by somebody who was shooting 12 ga ammo in the gun...the nails would prevent shell from going to far and just get a snap...very ingenius device if this is what they were put there for...is it possible this gun could be a 11 gauge gun...just some thoughts of mine....i would never remove them but thats just me....charlie

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Actually talked to Dave today, and told him you might call.

[Kevin Quinn]

The shotgun is still with my smith at the moment I'll call Dave this week though.

[Drew Hause]

If someone drilled holes in the breech end of the right chamber (and if to shoot 12g shells why not the left?), they would act as stress risers and in my opinion the gun is unsafe. If the barrel wall thicknesses are OK, Briley could possibly sleeve the chambers to 12g.

[Kevin Quinn]

neither the barrel or breech was (drilled). My gun smith measured barrel thickness and the depth of pitting within the barrels themselves, and determined it is safe to shoot black powder loads. Although my 10 ga brass shots hells need some resizing. Going to call Dave later today to see if he wants to take a look and offer a second opinion. Thanks again to everyone for your interest and comments, all ls appreciated.

[Dean Romig]

And what's going on with the rim recess in the left chamber?

There seems to be some kind of reducing device going halfway around the circumference. :nono:





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[Bill Murphy]

Yeah, the guy used two different ways to make 12 gauge shells work. Did your gunsmith comment on these modifications or just say that the gun was safe to shoot? The "nail heads" look like they may be in the extractor, maybe not in the barrel itself.

[Drew Hause]

I couldn't tell if it was something like this, or just the lighting/reflection

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/20580224/335165419.jpg

[charlie cleveland]

this barrells being shown have definitely been sleevedmaybe 10 to 12 ga......charlie

[CraigThompson]

The "nail heads" look like they may be in the extractor, maybe not in the barrel itself.

That is my opinion as well .

[Kevin Quinn]

My smith only gave me the ok on the barrels themselves, I'll have to talk to him about the extracter. But it seems to me that the extractor has been modified to chamber a smaller shell.

[Milton C Starr]

My smith only gave me the ok on the barrels themselves, I'll have to talk to him about the extracter. But it seems to me that the extractor has been modified to chamber a smaller shell.

Perhaps he can find a extractor , probably would shoot fine with RST loads .

[Craig Budgeon]

The dimples are necessary to extract the right shell. The extractor looks homemade and poorly fitted. Not Parker quality.

[Paul Nadel]

Is it possible that heat and some form of hammering was done to try and put the barrels back on face? It may be a reflection, but barrels appear to be off face. I hope I am wrong!

[Craig Budgeon]

The barrel lug appears to be welded in the hinge pin area and the bolt latching area. The heat discoloration in both areas is the evidence and could be easily removed with scotch brite, bright-boys,etc.

[Mike Koneski]

Kevin, since you are in California, I would recommend having Dave Fjelline in Lincoln ,Ca., take a look at it. He has a passion for hammer guns--especially long barreled ones.
Just thinking, I wonder if Briley makes a 10ga to 12 ga conversion tube/insert that would allow you to safely shoot it--I believe they run around $600 installed.
I have recently been in your shoes. I picked up a 16 ga hammer gun with 34" twist barrels, a rare find. Unfortunately, it was in poor condition , and deemed unshootable in its current condition--still debating what to do with it.
I can get you Dave's # if you want


Dave is awesome!! Good guy and he'll take care of you and your Parker.

[Mike Franzen]

I like this Gun. It appears to never had any checkering or engraving. Imagine the upgrade possibilities. Couldn’t be many left like this. BTW ... I own 12088 a 12 ga lifter built in 1878. I hope you’ll keep us posted on your Gun. When you take it to Dave you’ll know better what you’ve got.

[Kevin Quinn]

Hello again everyone and thanks again for everyone's input I recently became a member because of how great you all were and the insight you all have, it was worth every penny. I haven't called Dave yet because the shotgun is still with my smith he got pneumonia and is in the hospital and the shotgun is still at his shop. I figured I would wait until I got it back and for all the coronavirus stuff to settle down before I called. I do believe that the extractor was built by someone down the line. My local gun store has three poor condition very beat up Parkers and I was wondering if it would be worth saving them and possible restoring them. They are all in very rough shape rusted barrels, cracked stock so on and so forth. Thanks to everyone again, if I lived closer I would love to go to one of the get togethers you all have.

[Dean Romig]

Unless price is no object, buying such project guns is rarely a worthwhile endeavor. You will likely never even get your invested money back considering the way the large-bore market is headed for such guns. If you simply can’t resist the temptation buy the one with the best barrels and most sound stock. Cosmetic issues can usually be taken care of without spending a lot more money on the more important mechanical stuff. And if you buy one that you later learn the barrels are unsafe... then most of what you’ve got into it is wasted.





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[Craig Budgeon]

Kevin follow Deans advice, it is a very expensive undertaking to restore whipped Parkers. Griffin & Howe currently charges $92.50 an hour ( posted on there web sight ) and most of the restorers mentioned on this forum do not deviate a great deal from that figure. So the best of the whipped Parkers requires 50 hrs. to restore it will cost you $4625, plus parts, plus materials, and plus tax.

[Kevin Quinn]

Ok, the only reason I was thinking about it was the price, they were all under 50$.

[Craig Budgeon]

Plus $50, plus shipping and insurance both ways.

[Jerry Harlow]

Ok, the only reason I was thinking about it was the price, they were all under 50$.

If they are true Parker Brothers, any complete gun is worth $50 since it is a local shop cash and carry situation. But just because it says Parker it may not be what you are looking for; it may be a Belgian knockoff if it is priced at $50. Make sure they are the "Real McCoy" and if so buy them and I or someone else will be glad to take them off your hands for parts.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

That's what I was thinking Jerry. Also, if one wanted to try "amateur gunsmithing", stock refinishing and repair, etc., would be a good one to learn on--and I'm sure you would get $50 worth of fun out of it.

[Craig Budgeon]

If there not marked PARKER BROS. and Meriden, Ct. there worth $.05 a lb.

[charlie cleveland]

I thought scrap iron was bringing 6 cents a pound....charlie

[Craig Budgeon]

Charlie, you must remove the wood before going to the scrap yard to get the extra penny. On the other hand I am satisfied at a nickle a lb. for mixed scrap.

[charlie cleveland]

you got some thing there...mixed scrapalways eaiser to fool with...charlie

[Kevin Quinn]

Hello everyone, I finally got my Parker back from my gunsmith after 4 months. I was curious if anybody has recommendations on black powder, go to or trusted brands as I'm not familiar with black powder. I was also thinking of sending it in to delgrego or turnbull to have it restored at some point. I'm aware that it will most likely cost more than the shotgun is worth but I'd really love to see it brought back to former glory. Thanks

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Black powder loads are not really necessary, unless you really enjoy messing with black powder. recipies for Low pressure loads using modern powders are readily available for the 10 ga--look at the reloading forum and there is an unbelievable amount of data for loading the "short" ten. RST shells are also available commercially. Good luck and have fun.

[Kevin Quinn]

Ok thanks I appreciate it.

[GREG BOWER]

anyone ever see 3 beads on the top rib of a lifter ?