Prices Realized (RIA)

[Jack Cronkhite]

Rock Island Auction completed an extensive sale over the weekend. To see all items, click
here (http://www.icollector.com/Premiere-Firearms-Auction_a8690?t=ME)

Here is what happened on the Parker scene
BP = Buyer's Premium Tax and fees not shown.

Winchester DHE 20 3,000 + 585 BP + tax +fees
CHE 16 11,000 + 2145
Hammer 10 950 + 185.25
DHE 12 4750 + 926.25
DH 12 4250 + 828.75
GH 12 1700 + 331.50
GH 12 800 + 156 Damascus plus barrel dent
GH 12 1500 + 292.50 Damascus
GH 12 1100 + 214.50 Damascus
GHE 12 1900 + 370.50
PH 20 2500 + 487.50
PH 12 1400 + 273
PHE 10 4500 + 877.50
NH 8 5500 + 1072.50
VH 28 6500 + 1267.50
VHE 20 4000 + 780
VH 20 2250 + 438.75
VH 20 3250 + 633.25
VH 20 3000 + 585
VH 20 2000 + 390
VH 12 3250 + 633.75
TROJAN 20 1800 + 351

[Jared Valeski]

Did anyone see the VH 28 Guage in person? Seems like it went low even with the buyer's premium.
JJV

[Bill Murphy]

A lot of stuff went for reasonable prices.

[Dean Romig]

The reserves must have been unusually low or absent altogether.

[Bill Murphy]

Widow women don't usually deal in reserves. There is way too much stuff on the market today for auction buyers to bid high on every gun. One of our members and I attended an auction a few weeks ago that included items that were the best of their type and sold for very attractive prices.

[Dean Romig]

I was ignorant of the fact that someone's widow had consigned these RIA Parkers.

[Jack Cronkhite]

The VH 12 (http://www.icollector.com/Parker-Brothers-VH-Grade-Skeet-Double-Barrel-Shotgun_i9966067) surprised me. What is there about this gun that puts it at that price?
3250 + 633.75
238831 is a post 1934 Remington period gun with no extras.
Is Skeet in/out more desireable?
Would 2 3/4" chambers be factory spec by then?
With the bid/buyers premium/tax/fees it is a 4000$ partially refinished (barrels) VH 12 gauge extractor 26" Vulcan barrels CPG SF DHBP. Other than 26" and Skeet, it seems to be a fairly ordinary gun. Does this bode well for VHs in general, or is there something special here?
Thanks for my continuing education.
Cheers,
Jack

[Dean Romig]

In my opinion, the only feature that would set it apart from the "ordinary" is if the barrel flats are factory stamped "Skeet In" and "Skeet Out".

[Jack Cronkhite]

Description does say "marked SKEET IN & SKEET OUT"

[Bill Murphy]

Scarce gun if it is a factory non ejector skeet gun. Should sell for about four times what a common VH in the same condition would sell for. Dean, "widder" or "widow" is kind of a generic term for a consigner who wants these guns the heck out of here, now.

[Dean Romig]

Dean, "widder" or "widow" is kind of a generic term for a consigner who wants these guns the heck out of here, now.

WOW :shock:

Thanks Bill - That explains a whole lot about guns and things that have been offered to me indirectly by "This widow friend of mine..."

[Jack Cronkhite]

Scarce gun if it is a factory non ejector skeet gun. Should sell for about four times what a common VH in the same condition would sell for.
Thanks Bill. So 4K is not out of question and even a bit low if all checks out? The book shows the configuration and barrel length as presented at auction. Would 2 3/4 chambers be from factory or lengthened? The picture looks like a "used" gun with a bit of CC left on the side of the frame still.
Cheers,
Jack

[Dean Romig]

If we're refering to the RIA auction of Parker ser. no. 238381 it actually is advertised as being marked "SKEET IN" and "SKEET OUT" as Jack pointed out, so this is what causes such a gun to sell at a premium. I agree with Bill that this gun sold very reasonably.

[Bill Murphy]

Have never seen an original non ejector skeet gun. I would kill for such a gun. Ed Muderlak has an unusual 12 gauge skeet also, splinter forend. I'm sure I saw that gun at an Ohio Gun Collectors show years before Ed bought it. I would be interested in that gun also. Parker skeet guns are normally like a row of beans, all alike. It is the unusual features that make some of them interesting.

[Jack Cronkhite]

It was lot 1845 on Saturday. Click here (http://www.icollector.com/Parker-Brothers-VH-Grade-Skeet-Double-Barrel-Shotgun_i9966067) for details
Can you gents enlighten me about SKEET IN & OUT what exactly is meant by those words?
Thanks,
Jack

[Dean Romig]

The "SKEET IN" and "SKEET OUT" chokes were developed specifically for the game of skeet. From station 1 on a skeet field Skeet In is the more open choke and is used for the incoming targets, hence the "in" part of the name. Skeet out is of course, used for outgoing targets where a bit tighter choke is desired. At station 4 it really doesn't matter much which barrel you use for either the high house or low house targets but the more competetive skeet shooters prefer to use the in and out chokes as they were designed to be used.

Then there are the "Skeet 1" and "Skeet 2" chokes which are just the opposite. Skeet 1 is used for your number 1 target at station 1 which is the outgoer requiring a tighter choke while Skeet 2 is open and used for the incomer.

[Jack Cronkhite]

Thanks Dean. So for roosters, the Skeet Out barrel would be the only one getting much action, although I have had a couple over the years coming right at me. Usually miss that shot but gettem on the "skeet out" about face. I did have a double on a pair of sharptails that came to me like a pair of ducks. Actually did get the first one as a "skeet in" and the second one was an about face and "skeet out" shot. Unfortunately, it was with my Winchester 1200 pump, so no Parker double pin for that. This was back in the late '70's. My long time hunting partner had put the pair up but they were way out of range for him. I was at least a couple hundred yards away and saw the birds leave and then head to me. I was "investigating" an abandoned dirty thirties farm house at the time. First sharpie almost dropped onto the roof and the second was onto the trail that lead in to the house. Now wondering if I can find any pics of that place. It is long gone now but the hedges are still there. Haven't been to that spot for a few years. Maybe next year. Too much snow now to even hope to get back into that spot. Thanks for the enlightenment.
Cheers,
Jack

[Bruce Day]

A friend and first time Parker owner bought the GHE at a good value. This will be a great gun for a first time owner and one that he can use as an all around shooter. I understand he is joining the PGCA and likes the PP's publication.

There seem to be many decent Parkers available. I don't know if it is the economy or because of an older generation of collectors reducing their holdings. Anyway, this is a good time for a person who has been wanting to buy a nice Parker to shoot.

[Bill Murphy]

I have a theory about Parkers and their availability. In the early days, Parkers were being manufactured in quantity and anyone needing one just placed an order and paid retail, then went hunting. In the thirties and forties, the economy and the pressures of the war caused Parkers, both high and low grades to be sold off at much less than their retail price and true value, which also led in a small way to the downfall of Parker sales and marketing of newly manufactured guns. In the fifties and early sixties, there was little interest and traffic in Parkers, either as users or collector guns. Collector grade Parkers largely stayed in the hands of people who had owned them for years. With the advent of the Peter Johnson book and an economy that allowed and appreciated more conspicuous and discretionary consumption, Parkers started to be rooted out of the attics of long time owners. This phenomenon continued from the mid sixties well into the eighties and to a lesser extent, to the present day. Parkers were being taken off the market for many years and placed into large groups rather than one gun per hunter. The collectors and accumulators of this period continued to age, and the nineties saw the first wave of a collector's selloff that continues to the present day. Because of the state of today's economy, there is not only the continuation of the grey haired selloff, there is accellerated interest on the buying side because of the depressed pricing. So now the accumulated collections of the sixties through the nineties are spread thinly similar to the early days. Certainly some of these auction guns will go into large collections, but many will go to either new collectors or collectors who do not have large accumulations. These are the serious collectors of the next twenty to forty years, when the cycle of the sixties through the nineties will start again. Because of the repeating cycles, there will always be good Parkers to be purchased.

[Dean Romig]

Good logic Bill. I think you're largely right.

[John Dallas]

In the LOOONG run, I don't see continued appreciation for firearms. The percentage of the younger generations who have any interest guns is much is smaller than our gray-haired generation, so I believe demand will be less, and therefore there will be a softening of prices

[charlie cleveland]

i agree with you big d to the small gun shows i go to i do not see many youths there.... seems like they go for military stuff...this is my opionon....most youngsters shoot pumps or autos including my grand kids.... charlie

[Jack Cronkhite]

with plastic camo stocks - or it just isn't a gun :rolleyes:

[Dave Suponski]

The youngsters of today will become the grey hairs of tomorrow and if they have an interest in hunting and the out-of-doors they will eventually find our Parkers.

[Dean Romig]

I think it will come around again. In the last two decades there has been a huge surge in interest in collecting nice doubles like Parkers, Smiths, Foxes so the wealth has been spread out but as this number diminishes the number of large collections will increase.

[Eric Grims]

The first gun I shot was a Trojan at 10 years old and for many years it was the only gun I hunted with. Still have it, wanted more, and with family and obligations did not have the dough. I am now 61 at the height of my earning years, fortunatly have some disposable income and I am picking up good Parkers where I can. Better late than never. I believe that this may be a likely scenario for the next generation particularly if they get to shoot them. My son is a gen Xer and his friends see these guns, their eyes light up and they comment "that is sweet". Just MHO

[Bill Murphy]

Bruce, send me the names of the guys who used to own 300 Parkers and also the names of those who now only own 70. Since you have been a serious Parker student and collector for so long, you must know who these people are. I am a young guy so I can cultivate the widows of those guys and become the next Otis Odom or Bruce Kelly. On second thought, I really don't need to press the flesh with the widows. All I need to do is write the checks. That's the way some guys do it. The alternative would be to get to know these guys over a period of forty or fifty or sixty years, as friends and fellow hunting partners. Just last night, The Lovely Linda and I attended the 95th birthday party of a fellow who has a baggo Parkers and other wonderful guns and still appreciates them. I have known and hunted with and traded guns with this fellow for a bunch of years. We have several dozen friends in common, some of whom own dozens, maybe more, Parkers and other strange and unusual guns. None of those friends of the birthday guy need any more Parkers, so the birthday party was more about my friend and the food and liquor than the guns. Welcome to the good old days.

[Bruce Day]

Bill, you have such a way with words that I just have to keep in mind what my mother said.

I am very grateful to those Parker collectors over the years who have helped me along and mentored me to find and acquire a handful of nice guns. I'm also grateful for military retirement pay and an opportunity to serve and achieve a modest amount of financial security through long and hard work, and well, a fair amount of luck. My military instructors always said they could teach a monkey to fly and I didn't prove them wrong. I never dreamed that military retirement pensions would be cause for resentment by those who chose different paths. I am grateful for the opportunity to have been able to spend reasonable amounts of discretionary income and savings to buy a few nice Parkers. I am so pleased for friends and acquaintances when they have means to acquire what they want and I find that I now get as much pleasure from helping friends find the right Parker as I did when I was acquiring guns. And I am grateful for the wonderful people that I have met through this collecting hobby, so much so that it is easy to overlook the few mugwumps and curmudgeons that we are saddled with.

[Bill Murphy]

From reading the post which you severely edited into the one that precedes this one, I can see you did not correctly interpret the theme of my anecdote about my friend's birthday party where I told of the Parker collecting and hunting friends that I have cultivated over a lifetime. I cultivated these wonderful people because of a common interest in guns and love of hunting, not to buy their Parkers.

[David Holes]

Bruce, I am grateful to read these words from your last post. I had a gut feeling that you were a man of wisdom and intelligence. A common bond between must of us on this site is the parker shotgun. I am sure you have worked hard to build your collection, and thank you for your willingness to share it with others. Since I live in Ne. I will be trying to meet you in Omaha at phez fest. Not sure which day, will figure that out latter. Thanks again Dave

[Bruce Day]

David, we look forward to meeting you in Omaha. Sam Ogle ( Cabelas Omaha) is going to help and we have a bunch of regulars who are great guys and love to help and talk and bring their guns. Bring your gun and put it on display too. It doesn't matter if it is high or low grade, beat up or not, because a lot of people start with worn V grades and maybe get a better condition gun later. Our good friend at PF headquarters shoots a worn Trojan 16ga. On Sat night if we have the interest, we'll get together and have a get acquainted dinner, where I don't know and will look for suggestions. Nebraskans had a lot of great Parkers, more so than neighboring states it seems, and maybe we'll hear some great stories from attendees.

Here's what it looked like in Des Moines earlier this year.