Prices - Ugh!

[Eric Grims]

Here is a nice gun that I have some interest in. I believe that the gun is on other sites and in the store the price is $2,999.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=204450766

I like this gun but think it over priced. This seems to be whats out there plus the problem of such prices onguns in rough shape. Some people say prices are down but that is not my experience. When I go to the shooters bible type places prices are much lower than i see and when people give values on this forum I never see such prices and I would jump at the chance to buy guns at those estimates. Early on, the Internet was a good resource but now it is really ridiculous at times.

I live in a rural area so I don't see a lot of Parkers so I may have a disadvantage. My thoughts were that with the economy we may see more guns hit the market and prices be better but I do not think that is the case.

I feel i am not so much a collector but a big accumulator as i have many varied type guns. I am unloading some here and there for SxS s .As with any collectable 1/2 the fun and reward is in the search. And by no means have I shied away from paying the price for something I really wanted.

I posted this just to get a sense of bearing from others so I'm interested in anyones thoughts.
Thanks

[Dean Romig]

Parkers, like anything else, have two values.... The value that the seller puts on it and then the value a prospective buyer puts on it. They may or may not come together on a mutually agreeable value and the gun sells, or it doesn't.

These days there is a third factor and that is the need to sell in order to turn the gun into cash to pay debts. Unfortunately, some people think that anyone who is selling a gun is in this position but that is far from reality. I, for one, would never sell my guns under these conditions.... I don't need to.

[Mark Ouellette]

Eric,

Be advised the seller is well known for using a torch to revive case colors. Those torch jobs soften the surface of the metal rather than hardening it as the case coloring is intended to do. I would not buy a butt plate from that butcher!

And yes, the price is nearly double what it should be. Do yourself a favor and join the PGCA. Then you can see the fine guns in the for sale section that are posted by our members for our members. I think there are a couple fairly priced VH guns on there now.

As a PGCA member you will also have a contact list and fine that there are several active members in your area. If requested, they may be able to help you find what the gun(s) that you seek.

Good Luck,
Mark

[Chuck Bishop]

Eric,

Be advised the seller is well known for using a torch to revive case colors. Those torch jobs soften the surface of the metal rather than hardening it as the case coloring is intended to do. I would not buy a butt plate from that butcher!

And yes, the price is nearly double what it should be. Do yourself a favor and join the PGCA. Then you can see the fine guns in the for sale section that are posted by our members for our members. I think there are a couple fairly priced VH guns on there now.

As a PGCA member you will also have a contact list and fine that there are several active members in your area. If requested, they may be able to help you find what the gun(s) that you seek.

Good Luck,
Mark

This looks like it just might be the one Parker he hasn't butchered. To me it looks original but I agree, a bit overpriced.

Does Ed have a store?

[Mark Ouellette]

Chuck,

Maybe the price reflect's the Non-butchered commission! :)

Mark

[Harry Collins]

The gun has 2 3/4" stamped on the barrel flats???????

Harry

[Eric Grims]

It really pays to ask. Was not aware of the trading option for members. Plan to join with the Monday mail.
Thanks

[Eric Grims]

Just tried to join via the on line payment on this site. Could not do so and rejected pay pal and credit cards in various combinations all of which are valid on my end. Not the first time I have seen this problem on the site. Any suggestions?
Thanks

[Francis Morin]

Contact our Fire Team leader on the PGCA site- John Dunkle.He is a wizard at sorting out the various gremlins and can get you squared away with a membership.

I do NOT buy any guns on the various websites that exist- but as they say about "Not costing anything to look", I went there and checked out this seller's feedback- 14 negatives are 14 too many for me. I also agree with my Brothers in Parker that several things raise a red flag, at least to me:

The 2 & 3/4" stamp on a 1910 VH12-back then I believe the standard chambering was 2& 5/8" for the paper shells of that era-if someone rechambered this gun and so stamped the barrel flats- they may also have opened the chokes. I would want an expert barrel gauging, in MI we have Jon Hosford in Ann Arbor- there are many other competent 'smiths that can also do this, and even though a 12 No. 2 frame VH is as common as a 16 ounce claw hammer, any and all alterations detract from thegoing market price.

IMO- and bear in mind that neither E.F.Hutton or Warren Buffett have ever listened to me--if this VH 12 is unaltered and not "torched colored" in the shown condition, I would say $1450- if it had ejectors (and they were in proper time) possibly $1750- BallPark!!

With a background in both machine shop and TIG welding- I would be very leery of any Parker that had its receiver "torched" to somehow enhance color"restoration"!!-Parkers, Smiths, Ithacas from that era and until they went out of production were "double fitted"- first parts fitting was soft fit- prior to case hardening- which provides a "file hard" surface with a somewhat softer core, just as a wood chisel should be- not brittle however.

The resultant colors on factory original Parkers (and others mentioned) were the result of proprietary mixes of packing media in the box, temperature, time, and avoidance of contact with free oxygen in the quench and cooling phase- a real "art and science"combined--

After this and slow cooling, the parts were then hard fitted" and the action assembled- fussy work, and all Parkers- from the basic Trojan to the A-1-Special were so assembled-

You have picked a great time to join- The $40 annual fee- the quarterly Parker Pages magazine is way worth that alone- and there is a classified section for sale or WTB of both Parkers, and other fine side-by-shotguns,as well as parts, calendars, cases- etc.

More recently,our BOD has agreed to allow annual and Life members of the PGCA to list Parkers offered for sale on our Forum- in compliance with the BATF rules if interstate shipment of the shotgun is required. In passing, one of the other websites that allowed that is having serious server problems and may not be back on line for some time.

If I were in the market for another Parker, being a member, my first move would be within the PGCA- and also patience. I agree that just because guns are offered for sale, overlooking our somewhat "dead in the water" economy at present, it does NOT preclude that the seller needs the funds to meet other obligations-

There is a lot of chicanery sometimes involved in gun dealing-and over inflated prices are out there. Personal recommendations, checks from others on a dealer's reputation, all available for the asking on our PGCA Forum-welcome indeed!!!:bigbye::bigbye:

[David Dwyer]

Joining the PGCA is one of the best thing anyone interested in Parkers can do!
I have seen the prices of lower grade , 12 & 10 ga, guns fall significantly in the past 2 years. You can buy a decent DH or DHE 12 for 25-35% less than before and I can remember two that have sold on this site. The high condition high grade sub gauges a hard to find and just keep getting more expensive. I have purchased two very nice O grade 12 hammerguns for friends for under $1,800 and have seen 12 ga DH" for under $3,000. Just keep looking !
David

[Richard Flanders]

Other than the chambers having been likely lengthened, this gun looks like an honest VH12 to me. I don't see anything about it that would prevent me from buying it if I wanted that particular configuration. I can see that it definitely needs to be dismantled and thoroughly cleaned; the screw slots are plugged with gunk and there is gunk on some of the wear surfaces. Sure doesn't look abused or overly worn though. The stock looks good and v. well fit to the metal but it looks like someone oiled the metal heavily in the past. I wouldn't be surprised if the wood is a bit oil soaked; it looks a tad dark around the tang and there's oil crud around the lever pivot that tells me someone was pretty liberal in oiling it. It looks good on the outside but I assure you it's a mess of old oil, sticks and bugs and at least minor corrosion around the trigger group inside. Overall, it's a lot nicer than most of the V grades on the Internet these days. A prospective buyer just has to ask all the right questions prior to the purchase to prevent 'surprises' when they open the box. Been there on that one I assure you and it sucks. It does seem expensive in todays market so you just make an offer well below that and let it go if it is refused.