Kansas ~ Live Bird & Trap Shooters? ...

[Christopher Lien]

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Any of these early Kansas/Missouri Competition Shooters below look familiar?

Best, Chris
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[Drew Hause]

Guinotte, J.E. "20 Years of Trapshooting in Missouri, A History of the Missouri State Game and Fish Protective Association, Federation of Kansas City Gun Clubs, 1898" is digitized. Randy has posted images from his original
https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE994893

Upper image on left could be a young Chris Gottlieb
https://www.trapshooters.com/threads/chris-gottlieb-of-kansas-city.823819/

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/24826144/414105201.jpg

[Dean Romig]

That is a great book. I had a copy and sold it to someone on this forum several years ago. Hoping he enjoys it - it is a very good resource.





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[Bill Murphy]

I think I bought my copy at a PGCA dinner. I think that might have been Dean's copy. A lot of history there.

[Phil Yearout]

Mustaches R us!

[Drew Hause]

The rotund fella top image in the middle could be a young Frank Parmelee of Omaha, but he usually has more of a scowl.
These images were c. 1898

"Trapshooting Greats" at the 21st annual tournament of the Missouri State Game and Fish Protective Association, held in Kansas City, May 1898 at Washington Park
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collection/p17103coll17/id/45505


http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/24826144/414105242.jpg

[Randy Davis]

Chris, any date of the photo? Can you I.D. their shotguns? Could be Gottlieb top left... top middle could be Frank Parmelee and top right may be James Riley. No guess on the other two. The 20 year Missouri book has some photo plates and lists a lot of information related to the events held during 1879-1898.

RD

[Christopher Lien]

Thanks Drew,
The photo was taken at a Leavenworth KS studio where 5 men are gathered around a nice cased trophy. With a distance of about 34 miles between Kansas City Mo, and Leavenworth KS, I believe the shooters could have easily been from that general area. When viewing an enlarged image of the trophy, I tried a few different methods (including a reverse negative) to get a better look at the inscription. The more I look, the more I see. The word Kansas is clear at the bottom, and much of the other text is also visible. If you look close you can also see 2 men in the reflection of the shiny trophy, one of which appears to be the photographer standing behind his camera taking the photo. Was curious if perhaps any of these gents might have been a few of the Elliott brothers?

Best, Chris
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[Drew Hause]

It is likely that Parmelee was the man up on the 1893 Columbian Exposition Trade Card
http://books.google.com/books?id=rblIAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA1114&lpg
He was later a Remington Professional

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/19974446/336895951.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/19974446/397199513.jpg

[Drew Hause]

Louis Erhardt of Atchison, KS was a prominent shooter in that period. Maybe a younger version lower image on left?

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/24826144/414104986.jpg

[Christopher Lien]

The Elliott Bros are on top... The man at far right has an older face but a similar cleft chin as the man below him. Thought perhaps one these men might be a younger Elliott brother... I have more scans, and I'll try and get them on later today.

Best, Chris
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[Drew Hause]

J.A.R. about 1895

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/21690841/357566758.jpg

[Randy Davis]

Chris, I believe you may have solved most of the puzzle. I`m guessing photo was taken 1889-early 1990`s. Does look a lot like the Elliott`s.
JAR came to Kansas City around 1886. Opened a shooting Park in 1887. Bob and Dave came to KC a couple years later. Also the Elliott`s were market hunters of prairie chickens around Pleasanton Kansas. If I remember Bob (Robert S.) was the eldest, born in 1858. I know Bob and Dave were shooters but were devoted to operation of the shooting park...


Best regards,
Randy Davis

[Christopher Lien]

Randy, Thanks for the insight. It seems there are not many early (1890's) reference images of the Elliott brothers as younger men. This old cabinet photo is very unusual, as most cabinet images of that time period were around the 6-1/2" X 4-1/4" range, but this one with the Shooters is much larger at a full 8"x10" with the studio mark at bottom. Photographer was "Bauer" of Leavenworth, and he was nationally recognized for his talents receiving awards for his work when exhibited in eastern competitions. Bauer also had a studio partnership in KC Mo as well. Hoping continued research on the trophy inscription will help tell the Shooters story and accurately date the photo.

Best, Chris
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[Randy Davis]

Chris... that`s a Great find! Hopefully we can figure out what championship shoot the trophy and photo
was for... Sporting some Parkers too.
Years ago I was given the original framed photo of JAR that once hung over the mantle at Elliott`s Blue River shooting park... Will let you know if I come across any info.

Best regards,
Randy Davis

[Dean Romig]

I messed around with the picture of the trophy a bit and I'm pretty sure I am reading

something like "--------ship of the state of KANSAS"





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[edgarspencer]

I messed around with the picture of the trophy a bit and I'm pretty sure I am reading

something like "--------ship of the state of KANSAS".

Given the limited amount of Kansas coastline, I'll wager "-------ship' means Championship.

[Dean Romig]

Of course it is Edgar.





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[Christopher Lien]

Randy, Regarding the script, if you look closely, you may be able to see the words You and I were recently discussing in the image below.

What I see starting from the top is:


__________ XXXXTING & FXXHING"
_________ XXXXXXchampionship
_________________ TROPHY
______________ XXXXX of the
__________ XXXXXXXship of the state?
_________________ KANSAS


Best, Chris
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[Randy Davis]

Chris... I`m certain it`s from the "Shooting and Fishing" Journal publishing company that
sponsored some State shoots in the 1890`s... awarded for the Kansas State Team event...
4th line probably the gun club that held the shoot.
Just not sure who the shooters are that won the prized trophy...


regards,
RD

[Christopher Lien]

Thanks Randy, In the 2 previous images of the guns with the exposed hinge pins, I believe one of them may be an early Fox.
Best, Chris
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[Randy Davis]

You`re welcome Chris... The Kansas State Sportsmen`s Association probably governed the shoot.

RD

[Drew Hause]

I looked through the Sporting Life archives for "Kansas State Sportsmen’s Association Tournament" and surprisingly there was very little information.
The first mention (but there was limited trapshooting coverage prior to 1895) was the 6th Tournament in May, 1895 at the Metropolis Gun Club, KC, KS
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collection/p17103coll17/id/48286/rec/49
That would mean the 1st was 1890 so the image would not be older that that IF it was from the State Championship.

May 1896 was in Frankfort, KS
https://digital.la84.org/digital/collection/p17103coll17/id/47366/rec/1

No tournament was listed 1897-1900, but Lou Erhardt had regular tournaments in Atchison, there were LOTS of shoots in Kansas City, MO.

I didn't find anything searching "Leavenworth, Kansas"

[Dean Romig]

Chris, respectfully, I believe it is a Parker.
I too had an idea it might be a Fox “pin gun” but in looking more closely I see reflections in the exact locations on the side pf the frame where screws are located on a Parker as well as the pin in the lower rear corner of the frame. Fox guns don’t have those.





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[Drew Hause]

J.A.R. used a Greener in 1891
Forest & Stream
https://books.google.com/books?id=9kchAQAAMAAJ&pg=PR8&lpg

At the 3rd Grand American Handicap at Live Birds in 1895 he placed second using a Greener.

He was a Winchester Professional Rep using a Winchester 1893 shortly thereafter, then a 1897 Pigeon Grade.

[Christopher Lien]

Chris, respectfully, I believe it is a Parker.
I too had an idea it might be a Fox “pin gun” but in looking more closely I see reflections in the exact locations on the side pf the frame where screws are located on a Parker as well as the pin in the lower rear corner of the frame. Fox guns don’t have those..
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Good eye Dean, I was wondering about the screw head reflections as well. It was what appeared to be an upward more narrow cut of the frame lobe that had me thinking Fox. The shooter may have moved slightly during the photo exposure process, thus giving the frame a slightly different look?

Best, Chris
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[Christopher Lien]

Drew & Randy, I'm still digging. Two of the shooters had Heikes hand protectors (pat1889) on their guns, and the photographers studio mount helps in dating the old photo. Current direction of my search is looking for a 5-Man Team defending a Kansas state trophy, and "Who" might have been 5 of the better or best Kansas shooters of the day to represent their state 1895-96. I'll certainly post it here when I find it.... Thanks again for the help fellas:)

Best, Chris
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[Randy Davis]

You`re welcome Chris... old photo display looks great!

RD

[Randy Davis]

Chris... We now know what is inscribed on the Trophy in the photo

Shooting & Fishing
State Championship
TROPHY
Emblematic of the
Team Championship of the state of
KANSAS

RD