Trailboss in 16ga. Brass Shotshells?

[Jay Oliver]

I ran across this load data for 16 gauge 2 ½” Brass RMC shells, though I would likely be using Magtech 2 1/2" Brass shells. I thought it looked promising and I would enjoy loading smokeless loads in brass shells.

1 oz. - Trail Boss 23gr(2 3/4 dram equiv.). 1 nitro card, 2cushion wads, 1 over shot card – 1219 fps

1 1/8 oz. - Trail Boss 25gr(3 dram equiv). 1 nitro card, 2cushion wads, 1 over shot card – 1238fps

These were said to be tested by Tom Armbruster, but I did not see any mention of pressure.

I used to use a lot of Trailboss, back when I did cowboy action shooting for 45lc. I like it and it would be wonderful if it could be used a black powder alternative in brass shells. I might play around with the wads as the above recipe(2 cushion wads) does not give me good patterns in black powder loads in a 12 or 10 gauge. You could also lower the above loads for 2 1/2 or 2 1/4 drams for velocity in the 1100s.

Has anyone tried Trailboss in brass shotshells? Does anyone know Tom well enough to see if he would share the pressures on these loads?

I am just curious. I enjoy shooting black powder in brass shells(a lot!), but this looks like it might be worth a try if the pressure was safe for composite barrels.

Thanks,

Jay

[William Davis]

A few guys use Trail Boss in our club single shot rifle matches, bullets go so slow you can see them fly down range through the spotting scope. None score well so I dismissed it as a useful powder for my purposes. The Cowboy shooters like it because it’s bulky and they want very low recoil & velocity.

Seeing your question and curious searched the web for Trail Boss & Shotgun. Internet consensus is it’s too bulky to use in shotshells, can’t get enough in the case to produce adequate velocity. I don’t always trust internet advise.

Like you I load paper hulls with black powder & stacked wads, think it’s a ideal propellant, all I use in my Lifter. Don’t think I would try Trail Boss, Black easily available and works so well. Somebody has hard data Trail Boss, pressure and velocity, could change my mind. Velocity under 1100 FPS would rule it out for me.

William

[Jay Oliver]

William, I really do enjoy shooting my old parkers with black powder shotshells too. Is there anything better getting a double with black powder shells? I don't mind the mess and always enjoy shooting hammer guns with the shells, powder and loads they would have shot when they were new.

I forget how I came across this Trailboss load, but it made me curious to see if others had tried it. Like you, I read some negative reviews of Trailboss as a shotshell powder. Though it seems to work so well in many other applications. The loads I posted had a few positive reviews, which is what got me thinking.

I am going to send a few Trailboss loads to Tom Armbruster for testing(just to see). I might include a 7/8oz. and 2 1/4 dram version. I have another 16 gauge recipe I want to test anyway and I will send them all at once.

I'll report back what I find out. If the velocity and pressure check out it might be worth trying some just to see how they perform.

[Ken Hill]

Jay,

Have you sent an email to Trailboss to see what they say? They responded to me very quickly on a muzzle loader load. I know the powder has too many problems (not enough velocity, pressure rise is not easy to determine by adding more grains to the load) to be used in black powder express double rifles.

Ken

[William Davis]

I would be interested in the results too. If it worked well would probably shoot my lifter more. Much as I like BP I end up shooting smokeless most of the time in offhand club matches with a 38/55 . Black performs just as well no real reason not to use it. We can handle 32 shooters in a match, average attendance 25+ three or four usually use Black Powder. Match long running, 25 years ago half the guns on the line were shooting Black.

Last match friend of mine won the 500 yard buffalo match with a Trapdoor & black powder. Only shooter using black.

William

[CraigThompson]

The first time I used Trailboss was in a circa 1896 Marlin model 1895 in 40-82 with cast bullets and to be honest I wasn’t overly impressed . Since then I’ve used it for Sub Sonic loads in several 308 bolt actions and the stuff did very well in that application .

[Dennis E. Jones]

I was told, by someone I trust, that Trailboss doesn't like to be compressed. I use it in some of my early (black powder era) cartridge rifles and like it for casual shooting without the cleanup necessary with black. My 577 Snider and my 577-450 Martini-Henry love the stuff.

[Paul Harm]

Trail Boss recommends you don't use it in shotgun shells. Why, I don't know.

[Milton C Starr]

I think I remember reading guys trying to use trailboss to develop sub sonic loads in large capacity rifle cases the but pressures would skyrocket .

[Jay Oliver]

I did email Hodgdon a few weeks ago with details from my original post and haven't heard back yet...

[Paul Harm]

It's been quite a bit ago, but as I remember I called Trailboss before Hodsdons bought it, and they said not to use it for shotgun shells. It was not developed for, or intended to be used in shotgun shells. Pressures would go up too high. Back when I shot Magtechs, I did a little pattern testing. I found to use only one .028 OS card, and one .135OP card and one 1/2" cushion wad. The thicker .062 OS card gave me a hole in the center of the pattern, and too many cushion wads gave poor patterns. The too many cushion wads seemed strange seeing how what I've read about longer shotgun shells where for more cushion, not more shot. Maybe I just wasn't doing something right, like more but thinner cushion wads would have worked. You may find better patterns with a hard .135 card on both ends of the cushion wad. The shot won't be able to embed in wad so easy. I also tried nitro powders in them without success. I believe it's because the glued in OS card doesn't offer enough resistance for a good powder burn. That, and there's too much area - bigger than a Fed hull. I was up to 30grs of PB and still getting bloopers. Maybe I should have tried more shot for more resistance. Without some way to check pressures I quit. There was a fellow over on shotgunworld who is successful with nitro powders, but he was roll crimping the ends. I believe charile may also do it.

[charlie cleveland]

yes i roll crimp..the secret to smokeless powder in brass shells is holding some pressure on the top wad while useing a hot glue gun on it..it works for me charlie