Frame size vs weight

[Rick Riddell]

Just a curiosity would a 2 frame with a requested weight of 7 1/4 be out of the norm for the standard frame size/weight assumptions? Or would it run the gambit for what we associate frame size/weight?

[Dean Romig]

Depending on barrel length.... A 2-frame 12 gauge with 30" barrels would/should be closer to 7 3/4 lbs.




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[Rick Losey]

just a guess since i have no hard facts to back it up - but I'd say that is pretty much normal for a 1 frame 12, and would fall in the lighter side of 2 frame 12's

[Rick Riddell]

Interesting my grade 2 was requested with a weight between 7 1/4 and 7 1/2, and weighs slightly more than 7.25. I recently saw another grade 2 that was right at 8lbs and thought that was strange.

[Rick Losey]

Interesting my grade 2 was requested with a weight between 7 1/4 and 7 1/2, and weighs slightly more than 7.25. I recently saw another grade 2 that was right at 8lbs and thought that was strange.

but what is the FRAME size?

[Rick Riddell]

Sorry I thought it was implied, size 2 and grade 2 30” D barrels

[Garry L Gordon]

Parker barrel strikers could -- and did -- wonderful things with barrels...but always within the range the Company deemed safe (and balanced).

[Brian Dudley]

And, also the way the frame was shoe filed.

A few weeks ago, I helped someone acquire a 12g 2 frame that was 9 lbs with 32” barrels! The unstruck weight stamp on the barrels was an even 5 lbs. I have never seen a set of 2 frame barrels that heavy. A total cannon breech type of gun. And the frame itself was very heavy feeling in the hand too. I was scratching my head at why it was not built on a 3 frame.

It was in the mid 80,000 for serial. A damascus GH.

[Dave Noreen]

I've thrown this in these frame size vs weight threads before, but here goes again. My 12-gauge 30-inch 2-frame weighs just shy of nine pounds. The barrels are very straight with virtually no swamp. My Grandfather's 30-inch 12-gauge on a 3-frame has a lot of swamp and weighs eight and a half pounds.

[Stan Hillis]

Brian, the term "shoe filed" is not in my vocabulary. in the interest of always wanting to learn, could you briefly explain it? I assume it has to do with the way the action is initially filed up by the actioner?

Thanks, SRH

[Brian Dudley]

Brian, the term "shoe filed" is not in my vocabulary. in the interest of always wanting to learn, could you briefly explain it? I assume it has to do with the way the action is initially filed up by the actioner?

Thanks, SRH

Yes. It was the factory term used for hand shaping the frames.

[Stan Hillis]

Thanks, Brian. I'm probably overlooking the obvious but, any idea how the word "shoe" applies?

SRH

[Brian Dudley]

Thanks, Brian. I'm probably overlooking the obvious but, any idea how the word "shoe" applies?

SRH


I don't know, I wasn't there.

[Dean Romig]

It is the floor plate. A “shoe filer” is responsible for the perfect invisible fit of the floor plate into the recess in the frame that is machine-milled... as well as other hand fit and shaped areas of the frame.





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[Rick Riddell]

The replies are turning out to be interesting! The unstuck barrel weight on my grade 2 is 3 & 14 oz with an actual finished weight of 3.3, I thought this may have been the norm, but hearing of other 2 frame guns with heavy weights makes Parker guns that much more interesting!!

[Stan Hillis]

Thank you, Dean.

It's a good thing that we didn't have to "be there" to know what we do know about these old guns. :whistle:

SRH

[Gary Laudermilch]

I have a 1 frame 12 with 26" twist barrels. It weighs 6-10 but has a barrel MWT of .031 & .032. It is .115 at chamber end and .90 in front if the chamber. So, it appears the Parker guys did not have to thin barrels excessively to get a light gun.

[Ted Hicks]

Interesting differences among comparable guns. My 2 frame 12 ga DH has 30" D4 barrels with the unstruck weight of four pounds four ounces and a finished weight of three pounds eight ounces. The total weight of the gun is seven pounds eight ounces which seems to be on the lighter side of what is typical.

Other factors effecting the total weight of the gun when comparing two like guns could be pistol grip vs. straight grip stock and the dimensions of each? I assume the straight grip stock may be lighter? The presence of ejectors probably adds some weight vs extractors and maybe even DH butt plate vs. SSBP vs Silvers pad? These things may be splitting hairs, frame size and barrel length are probably the two biggest factors.

[Brian Dudley]

Interesting differences among comparable guns. My 2 frame 12 ga DH has 30" D4 barrels with the unstruck weight of four pounds four ounces and a finished weight of three pounds eight ounces. The total weight of the gun is seven pounds eight ounces which seems to be on the lighter side of what is typical.

Other factors effecting the total weight of the gun when comparing two like guns could be pistol grip vs. straight grip stock and the dimensions of each? I assume the straight grip stock may be lighter? The presence of ejectors probably adds some weight vs extractors and maybe even DH butt plate vs. SSBP vs Silvers pad? These things may be splitting hairs, frame size and barrel length are probably the two biggest factors.


Ted,

Yes, frame size and barrel length/weight would be the first considerations when the factory put together a gun for balance and weight. The stock wood would be the next major consideration as the density of the wood can have a great effect on weight of the blank. Anything beyond that would be worked out in the final staged of finishing the gun once small parts are added.

[Rick Roemer]

Also wondered about the term "swamp" when it refers to barrels. Thanks

[Rick Losey]

Swamp refers to the profile of the barrels - wide at the breech, narrowing to a waist and then flaring some towards the muzzles.

flintlock longrifle barrels are a good example because the profile is more pronounced

look at the specs here -
http://ricebarrels.com/chart.html

[Milton C Starr]

I was looking for a older thread about frame sizes and barrel weights but couldnt find it .
Theres a #3 frame 10 ga on GB with the barrel weight listed and stamped on the flats as 12 . Surely that doesnt mean 12lbs ?

[John Dallas]

Is it perhaps a 12 gauge, not 10?

[Milton C Starr]

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/853744180

[Rick Losey]

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/853744180

yes, it says "The barrel weight is 12."

that does make it rare

guess I should keep mine out of the rain since that have gone up that much :rolleyes:

[Milton C Starr]

yes, it says "The barrel weight is 12."

that does make it rare

guess I should keep mine out of the rain since that have gone up that much :rolleyes:

I wonder how accurate that is though ? Just seems unlikely on a #3 frame they still have plenty of taper or contour to them .

I dont think its worth the asking price however as its still a grade 2 .

theres a 12 ga on there also that is stamped 12 in the same spot as that seller says is the stamp for the barrel weight .

[Rick Losey]

almost 8K - that's about 7 - 8 times too much for that one

[Milton C Starr]

almost 8K - that's about 7 - 8 times too much for that one

Especially when there are two grade 2 10 ga hammer Parkers listed under it for 2800 and 1800 .

[Rick Losey]

BTW - just checked - my 3 frame 32" barrels on a grade 2 10 hammer gun are marked 5lbs 4 oz

[Milton C Starr]

BTW - just checked - my 3 frame 32" barrels on a grade 2 10 hammer gun are marked 5lbs 4 oz

I want to say I seen some posted on here before in the 8lb range ?
Most #3 frame 10s I see are in the 9.5lb range for the whole gun .
Sometimes I see a few 10 lb 10 ga #3 frames . I wonder how much more those barrels on those guns weigh .

[Dean Romig]

We sometimes see a 10 or a 12 stamped in the barrel immediately forward of the barrel flats... could that be what the seller might be mistaking for the unstruck weight stamp?





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[Rick Losey]

hmm as in where Fox did stamp their barrel weight

[Milton C Starr]

We sometimes see a 10 or a 12 stamped in the barrel immediately forward of the barrel flats... could that be what the seller might be mistaking for the unstruck weight stamp?





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That was my initial thought , the 8 gauge hammer Parkers ive seen didnt even have 12lb barrels .

A 12lb barrel #3 frame would be extremely unbalanced .

[Dave Noreen]

Look at the pictures!! It is 4 superscript 12!!

[Bill Murphy]

Yup, 4 pounds 12 ounces, ten gauge, three frame, very common combination, very uncommon price. Nice gun.

[Milton C Starr]

Yup, 4 pounds 12 ounces, ten gauge, three frame, very common combination, very uncommon price. Nice gun.

I couldnt see the 4 in the photos and the seller only lists it as 12 but if I squint my eyes I vaguely see a number beside the 12 . Its not as clear as what is usually there .

There is a similar hammer #3 frame 10 ga on GB with 5 13 on the barrels .
I guess for you to have one break 10lbs youd need the barrels somewhere around 6lbs+ ?

[charlie cleveland]

i think you have this figured out now milt... charlie

[Milton C Starr]

i think you have this figured out now milt... charlie

Probably one of the best things about vintage doubles , they are full of mysteries and you always learn something when reading or asking about them .