Has the market for average Parkers bottomed???

[Craig Larter]

I have been amazed how the market for good average Parkers has collapsed over the last year or so. I'm not talking about project guns or closet queens but nice shootable guns with good original finishes. Not only the lower grades but even grade 3 guns. I just bought a 12ga DH with 70% CC and mechanically perfect for $1500. This gun was a $3000. gun a few short years ago in my opinion. Is it the internet making it a national market or what?? I collect antique decoys and that market bottomed a few years back but has come back strong the last few years, how about vintage guns?? Decoys attract the folk art crowd but will vintage gun be considered folk art and appeal to a larger market??

[Dean Romig]

With the Internet making it so easy to look for the gun you wand and being able to sift through literally dozens of guns that near perfectly fit your requirements, of course price becomes more and more of a determining factor. And the sellers have come to this realization and are responding to it with more competitive pricing.

The white-haired collectors and shooters are thinning their collections and this can be termed a flood to the market. This, coupled with fewer numbers of younger folks being interested in classic old shotguns affects the market.

That’s my take on the situation.





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[Daniel Carter]

I am very interested in this subject but from a different angle. When I have made an offer to a private seller they point to an old Blue Book valuation with the comment '' it must be worth a lot more now''. I have been trying to help in the sale of a high grade gun in which the owner insists on the book value even though I have shown him the exact gun unsold on this forum at half what he wants. I have had no success of late with buying at what the current market seems to be. Hope springs eternal I guess.

[Mike Koneski]

I see many 12g guns from most makers are really priced better than just 2 or 3 years ago. Seems like the small bores have retained their asking prices but the 12s have dropped significantly. Maybe reality has set in?

[Craig Budgeon]

Ditto on Deans comments but from my view the market is flooded with nice D grades and they are being sold very slowly. When I became involved in doubles damascus guns were valued at about half of a steel barreled gun and were not moving very quickly at that time. As the market peaked through the 90's and early 2000's damascus guns became very desirable, especially high condition examples. As the market continues to shrink I believe the value and interest in damascus guns will be the most effected.

[Brian Dudley]

Shooter guns have fallen right out. So bad so, I am hardly interested in buying them for resale. Unless they are so cheap that they are guarantee for a flip.
It isnt a matter what price they will sell for, it is more a matter of IF they will sell at any reasonable price. People just do not seem to be buying them. I think it is because the interested parties already have a dozen just like them and dont need more. Guns are just like cars. There are simply more than there are people to use them.

[John Dallas]

+1 to Brian

[Mills Morrison]

My Uncle Howard said when things are bad, people think they will always be bad. When things are good, people think things will always be good. They are wrong both times.

Some old stockbrokers in Savannah used to say buy when the Yankees sell and sell when the Yankees buy. Those stockbrokers got rich

[todd allen]

I wish I was buying, and not selling.

[Bill Holcombe]

Part of it I will say is that the market has gotten inflated. People on here complain about the lack of young people coming into the hobby. Well answer me this, where is the cheap nice condition entry level parker? It doesn't exist. A decent condition trojan ought to be a relatively affordable gun, but they hover up around 800-1000 bucks for a 12 gauge. This will be an unpopular opinion, but in all honesty a 12 ga DH shooter condition gun probably should be a 1500 or so dollar gun. They aren't rare by any stretch. Now don't get me wrong, I love my 12 ga DHs, they are my favorite parker to collect, but that doesn't mean a shooter grade gun shouldn't be priced accordingly. High condition/collectable guns are a different matter, but people have overvalued the shooter condition parker in my opinion.

[Kirk Potter]

When I first started getting into Parker’s, I was buying up everything I could find that I THOUGHT was a good deal.. Realized pretty quickly that it’s much smarter to find guns that already work for me, instead of trying to make the gun I have work. I’m sure some people love them, but 2 frame 12 gauge 30” Full/Full Parker’s are pretty much useless to me. That’s what I’m seeing languish on classified sites.

[Craig Larter]

Asking prices stay higher than market prices because people hate to sell anything for a loss. It can take a long time for asking prices to correct. If sellers cut prices for say a 12ga Trojan to $300. to $500. I believe sales would increase. How many of you have said to yourself my gun is worth 50% less than what I paid, I will just keep it. That thinking slows down sales and reduces the number of buyers. Same happens with real estate and wall street.

[Brian Dudley]

Yes craig. It is not quite yet a full buyers market. It isnt either now. People are not buying and in turn people are not selling. Until prices fall some to reflect that, it then will become a buyers market.

[Mills Morrison]

I think the internet had the effect of dramatically increasing the supply. I have seen this happen with old books which I have collected too.

[Dean Romig]

How many of you have said to yourself my gun is worth 50% less than what I paid, I will just keep it. That thinking slows down sales and reduces the number of buyers. Same happens with real estate and wall street.

It will also keep a number of guns from going on the market and when/if demand surpasses supply, prices/values will begin to rise.





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[Garry L Gordon]

I'm pretty sure that I could not get what I paid for many (maybe, most) of my guns. I did not buy them to sell, though, and I'm at peace with using what I have for the purpose for which they were intended.

I do think that the interest in old doubles peaked and until something happens to change that, things will remain the same or worsen before they get better. The demographics of double gun collectors will see to that.

[Kenny Graft]

I know that the market is down....like any other commodity it does that. Supply and demand is the major factor. In this case of SXS shotguns demand has dropped off for lots of reasons and the supply is overflowing. Motivated sellers willing to get out will take what the market will bring and go on, others will not. Myself as a gun dealer/collector and trader I must weather the storm, be willing to get creative, at times take losses and just make the best of it. I see several SXS guns for sale that I would like to add to my safe, don't have the cash flow and can't sell or trade what I want so it slows it all down! It was a bad year for gun wholesalers and some gun dealers too, we lost a whole bunch of them due to soft markets. Most of the members here and quality gun collectors as well I would think can afford to weather this down turn till the supply side drops and prices rise. I still see good desirable guns selling....that's a good thing! I bought two DH grade 16-s last year that I wanted fore a long time, no fire sale for sure but fair prices I think. I only need to keep one of them, the other is for sale here now but that may change soon....I like it too!!! My safe is full...(-: my gun buying account is empty...)-: And I need a bird dog puppy on top of all this! I will have to keep working a while longer to support all my BAD habits!!!...SXS ohio

[MARK KIRCHER]

I believe the downturn is not limited to big bore guns but covers all grades and bore sizes. Review auction prices - Review GI and GA listings - so many High grade (AAHE Etc....) just sitting for what feels like forever unsold. Even at price points listed well under those of just a few years back.
.410's that were selling at 40K+ in 2000's are in the high teens and low 20's now. Unless in very high condition or with much a desired configuation even .28 bores are no longer "liquid" and selling in a matter of hours as in years past.
All of the above points are correct but I do not believe it is not just limited to Average guns and large bores.
With all that said ....I am excited to be a buyer - Just not yet.....

[Reggie Bishop]

I sure wish a bunch of depressed priced, long barrelled 20s and 28s would come to market!

[John Dallas]

"and when/if demand surpasses supply, prices/values will begin to rise.". Can't imagine a scenario where demand will ever exceed supply in this arena. As us old Pharts die off, the guns will be put on the market with no regard for what we paid for them. The widow will want them out of the house, price be damned

[Bill Holcombe]

We are going through the same thing that is happening in the cattle market and to a degree with 1st gen Colt SAAs.

In 2013, 2014, and 2015 it was really easy to make record prices in the cattle market. You could buy a 1st year heifer, breed her and feed her on cheap grass spring to fall and then sell her when the price for her had almost doubled. People who had no history or experience in the cattle market saw this and started buying heifers for crazy prices because the prices were obviously just gonna continue to go up. Then all of a sudden in 2016 they stopped going up. So drug store cowboys who had bought 4 to $5,000 heifers were waiting for their easy money. It didn't come and prices not only stalled they started falling. My advice at the time was if you weren't willing to wait the 5-10 year cycle for prices to come back up, sell and get out with as much as you can. Many stubbornly refused. They weren't going to sell those valuable heifers until they could get their money for them. 3.5 years later some of them are still waiting to get their price, and have continued to lose money of grazing leases, death loses, falling calf prices, etc. These are people who knew very little about cattle and have no interest in long term cattle ranching, but they are going to stubbornly refuse to sell at a loss, and those 4-5k heifers are going to be dead before the market gets that high again and will have turned into 10k losses. They could have sold out early when the market started turning and gotten out with little loss.

The same thing is happening with 1st gen colt SAAs. People see what an old worn Colt SAA from the 7th Cav with a kopec letter sells for and decide every worn out beat to hell Colt SAA that is a 1st gen is a guaranteed investment grade piece regardless of condition. So you have a lot of 1st gen colts that have set on GI and GB and other sights for a very long time that have no business being priced at more than 1000 to 1200 bucks maybe just because of their age and the history they represent, not so much the gun they still are. You see it too with Winchester Rifles. People decided anything that was a pre 1900 1873 in 44-40 was a 3000 dollar gun. Or anything that had the numbers 1886 on it was big money. Those guns sit while ones that are priced in the right area code sell.

It's no different with Parkers. The parker came to represent a guaranteed easy sell when you wanted to get out of them. In my part of the world, prior to internet sales, a parker was rare because there just weren't very many. I lived in Houston and can count on 2 hands the number of parkers I ever saw for sell at that time in stores and 3 quarters of those were at Collector's Firearms. They weren't rare guns, but they were hard to find because of geography and such. Even respectable experienced gun dealers get into these situations. Pug's been sitting on a BHE for as long as I have been in the parker game that he has refused to come down on the price of, so it sits in his shop collecting dust. Collector's firearms has a BHE as well that is even more overpriced and less collectible than the one Pug has, neither seems to be interested in moving off their price. Frankly, I can't see either of those guns ever selling, without some movement on their price. If you look at Steve Barnett's page, he has a bunch of Parkers, and when I conversed with him about looking for a 1/2 frame DHE 12, he claimed he has more than 100 parkers that aren't even on the sight (only 1/2 frame he has is a BHE...I didn't inquire about the price), you can also look at the prices he has had them listed for vs what he was selling them for a year or 2 ago. Suddenly just about anything with Parker on them is a much higher markup than it was previously for similar condition guns. He has actually raised the price on that Rondell CHE that is incorrect, his cheapest D grade is over 5 grand for a restoration, he wants almost 3 grand for a poor condition 12 ga VH. These guns aren't moving because people aren't being realistic about what they are worth and we don't currently have a bunch of people coming in that are just desperate to buy any parker they can find as has been the case in the past.

[Kenny Graft]

Big D....It will be a good time to buy working guns....(-; 12 gauge will take the worst hits. I love hi grade engraved guns....Always wanted a Parker BHE-16 So few made there will never be a fire sale on one of them....maybe a good fair price but,,,,probably I will not have the cash...sadness and despair will set in....maybe a widow will call and say...I WANT IT OUT OF MY HOUSE....it might kill someone any moment. SXS Ohio

[Patrick Lien]

I grabbed my coffee this morning and logged in to get my Parker fix for the day. I started reading this post and thought I must be on some Commodities trading website. Pork belly's, Cattle, and Parker shotguns. :)

PML

[Alfred Greeson]

Good things come and go, prices fluctuate but owning a Parker is something to be proud of...whether you have one or many. I still remember growing up in a small town in Tennessee where there were only two parkers known of, one owned by the county judge and the other by the hardware store owner. Almost something to strive for some day. Now I have a few and love every one of them, sitting by the fire rubbing one down is like a conversation with an old friend. Like the wives say, "Be proud of what you have" , and when someone asks "Is that a Parker", smile and say "Yes it is!" and who knows, the next good one that comes down the pike may just be at a really fair price and good the one you thought you would never find, much less afford and Yes, we will find a way to justify buying just one more and love it because it is a Parker!

[Rich Anderson]

I think Mark hit the nail on the head. I've had a BHE live bird gun for sale for quite a while also a nice A1 special upgrade 28ga two barrel set with no takers. This isn't confined to Parkers as two small bore Foxes continue to look for new homes. I talked to a dealer just yesterday and he was lamenting the slow sales also. As nice as it would be for these four guns to find new caretakers they don't prevent me from eating so I won't be forced into a fire sale. Others may not be so fortunate.

[John Dallas]

Another member of this forum told me about his exchange with a well-known dealer who told him to not even leave several collectible guns with him because they just would take up space on his shelves with no hope of sale

[MARK KIRCHER]

Every gun will sell if the price is in line with the market.
We currently have an alignment problem.
The reverse auction process we just watched Josh use is very telling. I suspect it will become more common in the near future. Maximizing the current market price to the seller without giving 20+% to the auction house. If one truly wants to sell at a fair market price - this seems to be the best route I have seen so far. If one wants to name his price - he may find it difficult to place guns on consignment or run them through auction houses with high reserves. Both, I expect, may eventually stop putting money and effort into unproductive placements without charging fees on the front end.

[Craig Larter]

Well supply is not decreasing look at the number of guns just listed by RI and Morphy's. The bottom of the market is still yet to be reached in my opinion. And hammer guns are falling off a cliff..

[legh higgins]

most guys with a couple D grade parkers think they have their "nest egg" where an average or Refinished gun will only bring half of the worshipped value.:rotf:

[Ed Norman]

The first time I went hunting with my dads best friend he let me borrow a stevens .410 sxs shotgun. It was the most beautiful gun I could imagine back then. Purchasing the side by sides that I have this last year has meant so much to me. I would rather own an older side by side than anything right now to hunt with. These guns bring back that flood of emotions that I had as a youngster, hopefully I can find some younger people or my grandchildren and pass along those same feelings that I had and we can have some good "moments". I look forward to the future with these guns and I hope more young people can appreciate these older guns like I did and still do now.

[Rich Anderson]

The seller wants the best price he can get, the buyer also wants the same thing. Often these are unrealistic figures for both of them.

I just received a beautiful custom rifle that will never realize the initial cost of the build at resale. However I will enjoy it the rest of my days and it wasn't built with the idea of retained value. Besides it's in an odd caliber but thats what I wanted.

[Bill Murphy]

If you have a bunch of GH Damascus guns in well worn condition, or a few VH guns in the same condition, put the realistic $400 or less price tags on them and let the next owner try to get $1000 out of them or enjoy shooting them. You will be much happier in the long run. The same goes for the hideous refinished guns you have been hoarding, for whatever reason. Sell them cheap and start over in your collecting goals.

[Kenny Graft]

C.O.B. I have three guns that meet that same criteria....CSMC Fox guns, 410,28,16 very expensive, very personalized. The good thing...I'm using 2 of them and the third I bought 2nd hand and hope to break even on it when its sold. Oh...its long paid for and I like it too so whatever. If I enjoy my guns till my last breath I'm good with that, the person who ends up with them will have $.00 in them and will not feel a bit bad about the hammer price! SXS ohio

[Bill Mullins]

An old gun dealer I knew over 35 years ago (and now deceased) told me “ a fast dime is better than a slow dollar”! 😊

[Jay Oliver]

As a relatively new collector I have paid retail prices on some nice Parkers with no regrets, though I might look for better prices now. I have also found some great deals on shooter quality Parker 10s and 12s on the auction sites in Grades 0-2. I don’t see these guns appreciating much or at all, but they have brought me a lot of joy and I felt good about saving a few. In fact, it has been hard lately not to buy some of the shooter quality hammer guns at recent prices!

It does seem that the 16 gauge and smaller Parkers are commanding higher prices as has been previously mentioned. Perhaps not as high as 5 – 10 years ago, but there is still premium for these guns. I don’t think I have ever seen an original 28 gauge VH for under 10k (which makes it unattainable for me).

So I agree there are some good deals out there now, but it seems highly desirable guns in both gauge and grade are at level I am not at…yet. I am going to focus more on quality this year. I have very nice Parkers I can shoot while I am saving…

Along the same lines, I have also bought some nice antique percussion shotguns and rifles over that last year or two that are works of art as well as pieces of history. And I shoot those as well. The market on antique muzzleloaders has really dropped and I have picked up some nice guns. I would love to find a percussion Purdey shotgun or other top maker, but that is another wish list...

It seems to be a time to buy original lower grade guns that are all there(not projects) and enjoy shooting some nice Parkers…

[Bobby Cash]

Life is short. Fill it with folks and things that bring you joy.

...the person who ends up with them will have $.00 in them and will not feel a bit bad about the hammer price! SXS ohio

[Gerald McPherson]

An old gun dealer I knew over 35 years ago (and now deceased) told me “ a fast dime is better than a slow dollar”! 😊

Bill; I have always said that 10 dimes is twice as much money as 2 quarters. One just had to work a little harder.

[Patrick Lien]

These average guns sell every day for exactly what they are worth. The "Market" is always there and always working. The "market" will pay POS prices for POS guns; average prices for average guns; good prices for good guns; and excellent prices for excellent guns. Below are some recent internet examples of average guns selling for exactly what they are worth.

You can sell every gun you own in 7 days and the market will pay you the value of your gun every time. If that is not what you paid for it, saw others sell for, browsed on some dealer web site, read in some book, or decided for yourself, then the problem is you and not the market. JMO.

Cheers

PML

Parker GH SxS 12ga Damacus refinished w/ case
Price
$1,290.00
Item #:845776929Listing has Ended36 Bids
No Reserve
•

Parker Bros SxS 1926 Trojan 16ga 26” BBLS
Price
$909.67
Item #:844241724Listing has Ended35 Bids
No Reserve
•

Refinished and Reblued 12ga Parker Model GH
Price
$765.00
Item #:844324003Listing has Ended34 Bids
No Reserve
•

Parker 20ga V 28" Barrels
Parker 20 Vulcan DHE VH Parker Brothers
Price
$1,425.00
Item #:849883098Listing has Ended30 Bids
No Reserve
•

Parker Brothers Lifter Action 10GA
Price
$1,231.00
Item #:845535347Listing has Ended25 Bids
No Reserve
•

Winchester Parker Reproduction DHE 28 Gauge 26" Straight Stock, MFD 1984-89
Price
$4,225.99
Item #:846733776Listing has Ended25 Bids
No Reserve
•

Parker Bros Grade VH 12 ga DB 30" Barrel Its a Shooter
Price
$565.00
Item #:845137485Listing has Ended24 Bids
No Reserve
•

Parker Brother 12GA English Stock Lifter Action
Price
$555.00
Item #:847717275Listing has Ended10 Bids
No Reserve
•

20 GAUGE PARKER REPRODUCTION DOUBLE TRIGGERS
Price
$3,800.00
Item #:839645130Listing has Ended2 Bids
No Reserve
•

Parker Bros. VH 12g Two Barrel Set 28" & 26" Redhead LOM Case PGCA Letter
Price
$1,500.00
Item #:841815543Listing has Ended1 Bids
No Reserve
•

Parker DH 10 Gauge
Price
$950.00
Item #:846029459Listing has Ended1 Bids
No Reserve
•

Parker Bros. 12ga. SxS Shotgun 26" Hunter Arms ? Fulton Boxlock ?
Price
$299.95
Item #:846501860Listing has Ended1 Bids
No Reserve
•

Parker Brothers 12 gauge SxS Damascus 30" 1887
Price
$999.99
Item #:847532850Listing has Ended1 Bids
No Reserve
•

1903 Parker Brothers Grade VH 28" SXS 12 Gauge - Beautiful Gun
Price
$999.99
Item #:848617091Listing has Ended1 Bids
No Reserve

[Reggie Bishop]

The first gentleman that I worked for after college, my mentor I guess you could say, made the statement to a successful businessman that we were doing tax work for-"never invest more money in the stock market than you are willing to lose". In other words your investments should be diverse, with only the amount you are willing to lose be invested in the market. The market is volatile, subject to sudden and unexpected change.

I think the same could be said about the money we put in double guns. Don't invest more in American doubles than you are willing to lose. The market is volatile, subject to sudden and unexpected change. Buy what you like. Like what you buy. But don't put more in than you are willing to lose.

[George Davis]

One of our shooting "challenges" is approximately for the last ten years the number of hunting license across the US is slowly declined. We are losing the next generation of hunters/shooters as this number declines the appreciation for better quality firearms disappear so fewer potential buyers for our toys. I was told by one of the Arizona Game and Fish employees last year in the US their were more college shooting scholarships then applicates. Somehow we need to get more kids/families out to our shooting clubs and teach them about the joy of shooting, friendship, camaraderie of the side x side and the lifetime memories they will share in this group. If this happens I think the price issue will disappear, just my opinion.

[Josh Loewensteiner]

Given my work, both in private sales and with the consulting I do with Morphy's I can confidently say that I handle as many or more Parker shotguns in a given year than anyone else in the country. Between buying, selling, appraising, and studying, I am in the market literally 365 days a year and many times 24 hours a day. Just like any market, it changes from minute to minute, day to day.

The guns that are the softest today are the very ordinary and mundane guns. Why would anyone stretch for a VH 12ga with 30" barrels that has less than 50% condition? Literally there are hundreds and hundreds of them for sale at this very moment all throughout the country. Just like there are literally tens of thousands of beef cattle for sale all around the country today. These guns, just like the cows, bring a certain price and that is it. There is no upward momentum for them. There never has been- and why should there be? There is plenty of supply that is met with very little demand.

The greatest change I see in the market today is NOT that there is a lack of new buyers, however, there is a lack of uneducated buyers who run around buying like chickens with their heads cut off. Today's savvy buyers are hiring people (like me) to help them buy and to vet things to make sure they are buying at a reasonable value for money. In 2019 I made several new clients who have given me their wish lists and I help them find what they are looking for. If possible, I source their wish lists and stand behind what I am selling them, with my reputation and checkbook on the line to back it up.

In the days before the internet, the visible supply was much lower than it is today so there was a perceived scarcity for certain things. With the internet, you are able to see a much broader swath of the available supply, and thus common guns that were regionally rare are not perceived as rare anymore (think BHE grade 12 bore guns in rural mid-west). There are probably 6-10 BHE 12ga for sale right now on the net as where 20 years ago a guy could go to 6 gun shows a year and only see 1.

In conversations with my friend Steve Barnett, we both commented how 2019 was the very best year we had ever had in the gun business. Selling the more rare and collectible guns is as good now as it has ever been. Selling pedestrian guns, for which there was never much demand, is not hard today, its simply a matter of finding the right price at which it will sell. The run of the mill VH 12ga gun isnt going to bring what it brought 6 months or 6 years ago, and neither is your Amazon stock or your feeder cattle.

In the May 2020 Morphy Auction we will have Carl Balderson's estate collection of fine Parker shotguns. Carl collected a number of wonderful small bore guns, many with rare features. Many of these guns are in fine original condition. It is certainly going to be the greatest offering of fine American Sporting Shotguns in the last 5-10+ years. I am completely confident that the guns will be met with plenty of demand given their quality, condition, and configuration.

The very best guns are still selling with ease, and so are the mundane guns. The simple fact of the matter is that on the mundane guns, the only reason to compel a buyer is through a low price. The best guns speak for themselves and their realized prices continue to do the same.

[Phil Yearout]

There are fewer and fewer of us old f*rts, and most of the "new" hunters (at least the ones I see) seem to be into "faster, higher, farther"; that could explain a down market for good, shootable guns.

[Dean Romig]

There are fewer and fewer of us old f*rts, and most of the "new" hunters (at least the ones I see) seem to be into "faster, higher, farther"; that could explain a down market for good, shootable guns.



And that’s where Josh’s “uneducated buyer” enters the picture.


I will say however, we don’t ‘need’ Parkers while we do need beef cattle.





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[allen newell]

I'd like to find an Amazon stock for one of my Parkers.....

[charlie cleveland]

i will have this to say there is very few parker guns in my area steve barrnet has all of them around here...i could not afford a high grade parker but those low dollar guns is the ones i m interested in...not to many 500 dollar parkers out there....charlie

[Richard Flanders]

I can only say that I've had three Parkers for sale at an Alaska gunshop for a year and have not heard a word from the shop. They're used to the "high prices for guns in Alaska" program and can't seem to figure out how to move them.

[todd allen]

Probably my fault. I got into the stock market in the 90s, the market crashed. Got into real estate, and construction in the mid 2000s - crashed em both. And now Parkers?
I jumped out of my office window, but the ground was only three feet below.

[allen newell]

Ill take a clean vh or vhe any day of the week. Just as effective on game as any higher grade and for a lot less money. Dont need the fancy, smanchie ones

[Josh Loewensteiner]

One more thought on the gun situation. If you want an investment, please go to your local bank and buy a CD. If you want beef, buy a feeder steer. If you want something tangible that you can use and enjoy, that you dont have to feed, you dont have to worry about breaking its leg in a groundhog hole, you dont have to worry about it dropping dead for no reason at all, or you dont want to worry about it getting eaten by wolves, then consider buying a nice Parker shotgun.

[Mills Morrison]

Yesterday I helped a young man, who is a senior in college and just bought his first Parker which is an early Damascus GH 12, measure his barrel thickness. He is all enthusiastic about it and was going to shoot it today. Says he is going to join PGCA and get a letter. He already checked and records are available

You get one, you get a few more and soon there are many.

[allen newell]

A woman is a woman but a Parker is a gun.

[Pete Lester]

One more thought on the gun situation. If you want an investment, please go to your local bank and buy a CD. If you want beef, buy a feeder steer. If you want something tangible that you can use and enjoy, that you dont have to feed, you dont have to worry about breaking its leg in a groundhog hole, you dont have to worry about it dropping dead for no reason at all, or you dont want to worry about it getting eaten by wolves, then consider buying a nice Parker shotgun.

No you don't have to worry about those things but you do have to worry about tripping and dropping a nice Parker shotgun. You can never get away from all risk. Sometimes bad things happen to good guns :crying:

[todd allen]

There is some good news, amidst all of this doom and gloom;
68 Ford Mustangs driven in a movie by Steve McQueen are still fetching good prices. So are Brando Rolex watches.
If you have any of these items in your collection, you're doing okay.

[Dean Romig]

I can only say that I've had three Parkers for sale at an Alaska gunshop for a year and have not heard a word from the shop. They're used to the "high prices for guns in Alaska" program and can't seem to figure out how to move them.


A tactic that worked very well for my mother who had an antique shop in the very high-traffic town of Newburyport, MA was if a nice piece of antique furniture sat in her shop for more than a few months she would change the price tag to double the amount she had been asking before.... within a week or so it would sell, without fail.

Maybe it was because word got around... "Oh that Grace Romig - better buy it now if you like it because pretty soon you won't be able to afford it."





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[Phil Yearout]

And that’s where Josh’s “uneducated buyer” enters the picture.....

But if uneducated buyers are running around buying up everything they can find, that should drive the price up, not down, no?

[Dean Romig]

No.... They are buying all the guns they can at depressed prices, so they are effectively supporting a down market





.

[John Dallas]

Dean's mother's strategy was premiered by the Zippo lighter Company, as I understand it. When the lighters were first introduced at something like $.50, they were considered cheap, and poorly made. Doubled the price, and the rest is history. I suspect any of us who were (are) smokers had a Zippo at some point

[charlie cleveland]

i still got my zippo lighter it would light under extreme conditions if you kept her filled up with fluid and flint...burnt my leg a few times with over filling that zippo and fluid leaking out of it on my leg...but heh aint nothing perfect not even a parker...charlie

[Phil Yearout]

I've done that too Charlie; it huts like heck! I carry mine every day but it might be a week or more between uses. I finally put a butane conversion cartridge in mine because I was tired of it always being out of fluid every time I went to use it.

[John Dallas]

What was the brand of handwarmer that used the same fluid, and would burn your thigh like crazy when put in your pocket improperly?

[Eric Estes]

Jon-E handwarmer

[Phil Yearout]

I think Zippo actually made some of them too. Mine is marked Peterson's.

[Alfred Greeson]

You guys are great, over the last two days I have read these posts while sweating out three real estate deals, all going in different directions. Wound up laughing at the zippo lighter and the one still in my tackle box and feel much better about my Parkers. Thanks for the therapy!

[Richard Flanders]

Where do we send the therapy bill Alfred !? :whistle:

[Richard Flanders]

duplicate deleted

[Bill Murphy]

When I worked for my Uncle Sam, Zippos were the thing. We didn't buy fluid, we hung the insert by a wire in a tank of MOGAS in our truck or jeep. By the way, I am still using my Jon-E warmers.

[Rich Anderson]

I don't have my Grandfathers Parker trap gun but I do have his Zippo. I had to send it back for refurbishing (will that hurt the value:rotf:) but they got it back to working order and at no charge. The closest they could come to a mfg date was prior to WWII.

[Mike Poindexter]

A tactic that worked very well for my mother who had an antique shop in the very high-traffic town of Newburyport, MA was if a nice piece of antique furniture sat in her shop for more than a few months she would change the price tag to double the amount she had been asking before.... within a week or so it would sell, without fail.

Maybe it was because word got around... "Oh that Grace Romig - better buy it now if you like it because pretty soon you won't be able to afford it."





.
Had the same thing happen when I tried to sell an RBL Launch Edition that didnt fit me well. Listed it at what I paid for it and it just sat there.
The prior seller saw the listing and e-mailed me with a note to mark it up by $300. With some trepidation I did so, and it sold in a week. Go figure.

[Mills Morrison]

Some friends did that on a house. Sat for sale forever. They switched agents, the new agent raised the price and it sold right away. Go figure

As WC Fields said, never give a sucker an even break

[allen newell]

After reading all these I need therapy

[Chad Hefflinger]

I would say the internet has saturated the market. High grade, high quality guns are still demanding good prices. The run of the mill, average condition guns are now easy to find. I can sit in my chair with my phone and look at a few hundred of them. The best guns for the buck I have purchased in the last couple of years have come from members on this site. Honest guns at honest prices by honest individuals.

[Bill Jolliff]

When I worked for my Uncle Sam, Zippos were the thing. We didn't buy fluid, we hung the insert by a wire in a tank of MOGAS in our truck or jeep. By the way, I am still using my Jon-E warmers.

Same here Murph. (Except for the Jon-E handwarmer.)

I spent part of my USN enlistment (1954 - 1957) on a Fleet Oiler/Tanker/Sea Going Gas Station - the USS Allagash AO97.

We refueled ships at sea including aircraft carriers where we would supply them with aviation fuel for their prop driven aircraft.

Aviation fuel worked fine in our Zippo lighters.

https://i.imgur.com/Bw3HqT8.jpg

[charlie cleveland]

the gas in our old 5 ton trucks did not burn to good..hard to light and smoked like a tar keel......charlie

[Dean Romig]

I guess it hasn't bottomed yet...

I was at a gun show in Manchester, NH today and saw a poorly restocked DH 20 ga. with a beavertail forend without the correct reinforced forend loop for sale by a known dealer....

Anyone care to guess on the price?
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ................................ No?







$11,995 :shock::eek::rotf::biglaugh:


I hope he gets his price - ALL of our guns will increase in value if he does.


.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Dean, That dealer must have had his head somewhere the sun don't shine! Gary

[Dean Romig]

I should have made a low-ball offer...... but I was afraid he'd accept it.:eek:





.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

I think that most of us that have been Parker buyers for some time have seen prices go up and down, win sometimes and lose sometimes, I buy usually to enhance my collection sell off a gun to acquire a better condition gun or a rare one.That has always made me ask the question " Which is better a high condition gun or a rare one"? There are several high condition guns around in all grades, but you have to look hard to find a one of a kind! Gary

[Drew Hause]

There will always be individuals and "dealers" selling a vintage gun with a "name" who have no clue as to what they are selling, and those buying with no clue as to what they are buying. As said, as the greatest generation passes, leaving guns to those without interest therein or knowledge thereof, there will be more and more guns appearing for sale with prices disconnected from reality...and some at a bargain. Thanks to internet auction sites and collector's forums such as this one, there is no justification for not having a somewhat educated price range targeted for the gun one is seeking.

Relevant story: a buddy was at a small auction and bidding on a damascus barrel Parker hammer 16g against an older lady. She outbid him and bought the gun and he approached her politely afterward and asked why she wanted the gun - for her grandson for turkey hunting! He tried to explain, again politely, that plan might not be wise, which she didn't believe.

Hopefully we can get a report from the upcoming Las Vegas show. I thought the last one I attended was a sad reflection of the aging, and passing, of the "gun guy" generation.
OTOH as that generation passes, their accumulated wealth will go to their heirs, some of whom may share the interest in high grade, high value, collector and using grade guns.

[Rich Anderson]

A wise man once told me two things. 1 it's easier to buy a gun than to sell a gun and 2 it's easier to sell a $3000 gun than a $30000 gun. I have found these to be true on more than one occasion.

[Dean Romig]

There will always be individuals and "dealers" selling a vintage gun with a "name" who have no clue as to what they are selling.


This particular dealer knows exactly what he’s selling. I think he may be in over his head on this gun, and he may have made a BIG mistake when he (or his consignor) bought it... and too late discovered his mistake.





.

[Mike Koneski]

As a range owner, I see more shooters bringing SxS guns to shoot clays. Many more express the desire to own and shoot SxSs. Those same shooters have no desire to spend any more than a few hundred dollars on a double gun but will buy the latest/greatest veg-o-matic and realize it didn’t help their scores. Then they want to sell the used gun for new prices. As the saying goes, “It is what it is.”

[Victor Wasylyna]

1 it's easier to buy a gun than to sell a gun and 2 it's easier to sell a $3000 gun than a $30000 gun. I have found these to be true on more than one occasion.

If you own $30k guns, why can’t you pony up $30 to support the PGCA? You certainly spend enough time here.

-Victor

[Dean Romig]

Actually it’s $40 but the point remains...





.

[Rich Anderson]

If you own $30k guns, why can’t you pony up $30 to support the PGCA? You certainly spend enough time here.

-Victor

Its a personal thing for me. If you want to know more then PM me. I never said I own a $30,000.00 gun

[Pete Lester]

Just an observation. If this is the case it's happening when there is plenty of money floating around, unemployment at 3.7% and stock market at all time high. What would be happening with the prices of these guns if the country was in hard or even average economic times?

[Bruce Day]

Its a personal thing for me. If you want to know more then PM me. I never said I own a $30,000.00 gun

It’s also a personal thing to people who pay their own way.

[Rich Anderson]

It’s also a personal thing to people who pay their own way.

You were the one who said the annual member wasn't committed to the PGCA and I'd been a member for 12 + years and therefore paid in more money than you have as a life member so lets not go there:nono:

[Bruce Day]

I said that becoming a life member is a demonstration of long term commitment. I did not say that annual members were not committed to the organization.


Your logic was that because you had been an annual member for some years, you felt entitled to cease paying and have your past payments retroactively credited toward life payments. I don’t know of any organization that does that nor does any insurance company credit term life payments toward paid up life insurance.

I do not share your logic, but it does provide justification in your opinion to not pay dues yet enjoy the benefits of participating on the forum.

[Rich Anderson]

Whatever floats your boat:whistle:

[Craig Larter]

So back to the subject, has the market for Parkers bottomed,?

[Dean Romig]

I think the general consensus is that it is in a state of flux or in a continuous state of fluidity.





.

[John Campbell]

As much as I wish it were otherwise, I believe I must add another word to the discussion: "Decline."

All eras blossom, revel, and then pass. Some take longer to run the cycle than others. But in our time, things were tied to the culture we lived in and inherited. Like a tradition of field sport, sophistication, respect and reverence for the past. That's fading fast. Along with the inherent value of double guns. Parker or otherwise. Proof? Just look at our "For Sale" section and notice what's for sale, and how much of it moves.

Then consider today's youth. THIS is what they consider a cool shotgun. IF they consider shotgun sport at all:

[Phil Yearout]

It seems most of the young folks I meet are into more/bigger/higher/faster/farther and ad executives sure buy into that; just look at the ads for fishing gear out there. My nephew brought along a guy on our last South Dakota trip; decent enough young fellow with a new lab and a new Benelli auto. He was amused at my old "double barrels" and my feeling that any bird that I can't hit with two shots deserves to fly on. I said that on a couple of rare occasions I'd been lucky enough to take two birds out of a rise. He said something like, "If a bunch of birds get up I want a chance at all of 'em!"

[Bill Holcombe]

Just an observation. If this is the case it's happening when there is plenty of money floating around, unemployment at 3.7% and stock market at all time high. What would be happening with the prices of these guns if the country was in hard or even average economic times?

That is a bit misleading. Guns are cheap everywhere now. Colt just came out with a new python and demand is high and you can still find it for less than MSRP. Same with glocks, remingtons, winchesters, brownings, smiths, benelli, turnbull, etc etc etc.

We had a record 8-10 year period of gun prices and gun sales, good economy or bad economy. We are paying for some of that now. It is a buyers market, there just isn't a big impetus to get people buying after the previous gun boom.

[Dean Romig]

He said something like, "If a bunch of birds get up I want a chance at all of 'em!"


IMO that's the kind of attitude we should be discouraging in young folks.

I think we were all raised with a respect for the game we hunt and to be ethical in all matters. Ethical means doing the right thing, even when nobody's looking.

A lot of people see game animals and birds in an adversarial combatant vein rather than as an element in our heritage to be respected.





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[John Campbell]

IMO that's the kind of attitude we should be discouraging in young folks.

I think we were all raised with a respect for the game we hunt and to be ethical in all matters. Ethical means doing the right thing, even when nobody's looking.

A lot of people see game animals and birds in an adversarial combatant vein rather than as an element in our heritage to be respected.





.

I agree.

But there ain't no telling how much death and ecological mayhem can be accomplished by three dudes with semi-automatics... in the name of sport.

[Garry L Gordon]

IMO that's the kind of attitude we should be discouraging in young folks.

I think we were all raised with a respect for the game we hunt and to be ethical in all matters. Ethical means doing the right thing, even when nobody's looking.

A lot of people see game animals and birds in an adversarial combatant vein rather than as an element in our heritage to be respected.
.

I agree with you, Dean, but there are recognized developmental stages in every hunter's life. Although not all of us progress through all of the stages, it's important to recognize them, especially as we interact with younger and less experienced hunters. The earlier stages reveal themselves in hunters that like to have action, see lots of game, etc. Then we see the desire to "limit out," followed by more concern with "method" -- using antique firearms, traditional recurve bows, etc., and ultimately the lack of concern for bagging game but a desire for reflection and sharing the experience. Again, these are not value judgements of hunters, but the recognized stages that many go through, and it's not to say that a hunter with many years of experience doesn't still want to see and take game. It does, however, help to explain, and maybe make us more patient with, those younger hunters who want to take a limit of game. I certainly remember measuring my success by the game I took as a young hunter. The young hunters that want to shoot as much game *as legal* may just develop into the ones to carry on the heritage of hunting.

Now, the ones that break laws and violate ethical values should not be tolerated.

But when each of us takes a young hunter on as a companion, we can most certainly present a model for them. What we do in their presence really does matter, and I could not agree more your assertion that how we act when no one is looking is the true measure of a hunter.

[Dean Romig]

Very well stated Garry.





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[Daniel Carter]

IMO that's the kind of attitude we should be discouraging in young folks.

I think we were all raised with a respect for the game we hunt and to be ethical in all matters. Ethical means doing the right thing, even when nobody's looking.

A lot of people see game animals and birds in an adversarial combatant vein rather than as an element in our heritage to be respected.





.
At the age of 14 I bought A5 with the money I made mowing lawns ( 110.00) Pheasant hunting with my dad the dog put up a bird and I fired all 5 before it was 30 yards away, The Old Man moved the pipe to the other side cocked the hammer on the H&R 16 single, looked at me, then killed it stone dead. He would not let the dog retrieve but told me to take off my boots and wade out and get it. Then he swapped guns with me and I did not get my hands on it for 1 year. In the same field we jumped a rabbit and I let it go about 35 to 40 yards and shot it, with out a word he handed me the A5. Later he said 2 shells are in case you miss the first shot, 3 are for a triple but you have to shoot the first bird first. No i am still, 60 years later, trying to perfect my ability to match his but now only hunt with a gun that holds 2.

[todd allen]

I think ideally, all young sportsmen should start out with time spent looking at a campfire in the outdoors, with the cold at your back.
My hunting career started that way. The Eastern Arms break open single shot .410 was a formidable weapon, that I got to carry.
That gun is on the wall in my office, as I type.

[Dean Romig]

I think ideally, all young sportsmen should start out with time spent looking at a campfire in the outdoors, with the cold at your back....

....listening, with the firelight on their eager faces, to the stories their Dads and Granddads tell about their times in the outdoors and passing along information that is as useful today as it was in the "Old Days."






.

[todd allen]

This gun had almost mythical power in my childhood. Grandpa protected the chicken coop with it.
I shot a couple of doves with it last year, btw.
79681

[Andrew Sacco]

There are fewer and fewer of us old f*rts, and most of the "new" hunters (at least the ones I see) seem to be into "faster, higher, farther"; that could explain a down market for good, shootable guns.

I'm very new to Parkers (28g repro). Thank God there are people left who appreciate aesthetics and grace. I think this can be taught to some extent so its' upon each of us to show someone else what a beautiful gun feels like. We'll have to face the fact that maybe we're weirdo's who prefer to carry Leica's, fish with bamboo and shoot very old expensive guns. I'm not an old fart (at least yet...) but I'm looking forward to another (real) Parker someday. Don't we see the same thing with cars? Some have soul, some just don't. Usually the ones without soul are the new ones. To some, a car is a tool. Same with a gun. Life is short, do what makes your heart smile.

[allen newell]

Depends on the state of the economy in part and user/collector demand.

[John Campbell]

...Don't we see the same thing with cars? Some have soul, some just don't. Usually the ones without soul are the new ones. To some, a car is a tool. Same with a gun. Life is short, do what makes your heart smile.


You're right about cars and "soul." But sorry. NOTHING in today's automotive market has any soul. Orange juice colour or not.

[Andrew Sacco]

Love that Jaguar.... I'm a Porsche fanatic, always have been. The newer ones lose a little of their magic for me but the DNA comes through. I always get the question: "Why not just buy a WRX, just as fast, for less money..." The same reason I don't eat at a buffet.

[Victor Wasylyna]

We'll have to face the fact that maybe we're weirdo's who prefer to carry Leica's, fish with bamboo and shoot very old expensive guns.

Andy:

You are going to fit right in here at the PGCA.

-Victor

[Andrew Sacco]

Andy:

You are going to fit right in here at the PGCA.

-Victor

That's what I'm afraid of...

[John Davis]

I have found that when I'm buying, it's a seller's market. And when I'm selling, it's a buyer's market. Which of course goes hand in hand with my business philosophy of "Buy high and Sell low".

[Rick Losey]

my business philosophy of "Buy high and Sell low".

:rotf:

as an old friend used to say

Buy high, sell low, and make it up in volume :rolleyes:

[Mills Morrison]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6c6eUeoa9Q

[charlie cleveland]

maybe old willie has got it right...charlie

[allen newell]

My dad had me start hunting with just walking with him. Then he bought me a single shot 410 hammer gun at 12 yrs old. I hunted grouse, pheasant and woodcock with that till 16 when he was satisfied that i was hunting properly and i then graduated to a Parker 16 ga VH. Parkers ever since with an occasional Belgian Browning in the mix. Dad would always tell me that if you can't hit the bird in 2 shots, the bird deserves to fly away. God love him.

[charlie cleveland]

your dad was a rightous man...charlie

[allen newell]

Charlie, he was s wonderful dad. He died at age 56 from ALS, Lou Gherigs disease. Miss him to this day

[Craig Larter]

Thanks so much everyone for your input, many very well thought out opinions that are helpful to us all. But I still can't believe I bought a really nice DH 12/30 dam for 1500 dollars.

[Reggie Bishop]

I think you made a heck of a good acquisition myself!

[Gerald McPherson]

Thanks so much everyone for your input, many very well thought out opinions that are helpful to us all. But I still can't believe I bought a really nice DH 12/30 dam for 1500 dollars.

Craig; I recently traded into a DH 12/28 Damascus gun. After having it cleaned by a pro and a little repair work I have 1400 in it. I am shooting clays weekly with it and doing better than I have ever did. It did take a little experimenting with different loads and I have found one it likes. I feel the $125 for the cleaning was money well spent. It may have never been taken apart and cleaned. The top lever was very slow returning to center. My advise to others is before you start shooting a 117 year old Parker get it cleaned and lubed. I shot one for several years that looked like a screw had never been turned and then one day while shooting doves it doubled about three times and cracked the stock. We never get to old to learn do we? I traded a pistol that I had $300 in and gave $700 boot. I could have bought the DH for $1200. It was priced by the shop at $1500. I was surprised to find it where it was. This may well be my last Parker purchase. But I said that before I found this one. Of all the gun deals I have done I am happiest about this one. If I had this gun 50 years ago I would have eaten a lot more quail and doves. I traded into my first Parker a VH 12/26 about 20 years ago for about $1500 so i guess the market is down. I really enjoyed that VH also. It fit me very well also. The DH is a 1 1/2 frame at about 7 lbs. Feels great. Gerald

[Bill Murphy]

I wrote a $2200 check for my AHE double Trap. The seller asked whether I also wanted his prewar Pigeon Grade Superposed for $1100. I was already running for the door and don't think I really heard him. I had told him his Parker was worth several times his asking price, but all he said was "Write the check."

[Patrick Lien]

I wrote a $2200 check for my AHE double Trap. The seller asked whether I also wanted his prewar Pigeon Grade Superposed for $1100. I was already running for the door and don't think I really heard him. I had told him his Parker was worth several times his asking price, but all he said was "Write the check."

Bill are you have 1970's flashbacks again?

PML

[Mills Morrison]

Wake up Bill! Wake up!

[Craig Budgeon]

Craig, I am sure that every member of this forum hopes your DH 12 remains a bargain in the future. Enjoy your good fortune, maybe the person who sold you the DH was using the money he received from you into a bigger bargain for him.

[JasonPeck]

Imagine how the prices would skyrocket if we were only allowed to keep 6 guns each, such as they do in Sweden. There is a company here in Canada that specializes in importing the "unwanted" guns from Europe. The gun shows here are flooded with low quality Swedish sporterized rifles, combo guns and European shotguns of all kinds. My personal goal is to get down to that 6 gun limit. Deciding which ones to keep is the hard part.

[Richard Flanders]

Jason, is that 6 guns on each side of and behind your recliner and in each room of the house or 6 guns total for the house??? I'm confused....:p

[Rich Anderson]

I have more than 6 guns in 16 and 20:eek: I just couldn't live by that rule:nono:

[Mills Morrison]

I have more than 6 guns in 16 and 20:eek: I just couldn't live by that rule:nono:

Me too. That law is a non-starter for me.

[Milton C Starr]

Me too. That law is a non-starter for me.

Im surprised no one has said this yet , but thats when you say you lost all but 6 in a tragic boating accident :whistle:

[Craig Larter]

6 guns no way, I have trouble staying at 25 :banghead:
But I have tried to stay on theme, waterfowl guns, and I have tried to keep upgrading grade and condition. My favorite guns are one of just a few examples and in original but not necessarily high condition. I'm not big on super high condition common guns.

[Rich Anderson]

At one time I had 6 rifles in 7X57 now I'm down to three. I might be able to handle 6 straight grip, 6 pistol grip, 6 splinter forearm, 6 BTF ect

[Mills Morrison]

The rifle collection could use some additions. That will happen

[Rich Anderson]

Be very careful Mills your treading on a slippery slope:)

[Craig Larter]

I still think it's good to have a theme when collecting, it could be one of a thousand themes but collect what floats your boat. I have a bunch of friends who love vintage side by sides but we rarely run up against each other. We have a Ithaca guy, a condition guy, a 32" small bore guy, a one in every gauge Parker guy, a fixer up guy, a new one every week guy, a Sterlingworth guy, etc. I love my big waterfowl guns and they make me smile everytime I take them off the rack and swing on an imaginary duck.
I don't try to understand rifle guys, to me they hold little interest but I am 100% sure they get the same high from handling their favorite rifle.

[Reggie Bishop]

I grew up hunting quail, dove, crows and rabbits. Quail hunting will always be special and I will always have a few quail guns. But the long barrels work on dove and crows so I need a few of them as well. Themes are difficult when you have multiple likes!!

[King Brown]

One 7 X 57 will handle anything in North America.

[Craig Larter]

So no problem Reggie your theme is quail, doves crows and rabbits. Just like waterfowl guns, little early season ducks (teal), mid season ducks Gadwalls and Widgeon and late season Mallards and Blacks----let's not forget Geese. Leaves me plenty of room!!!

[Rich Anderson]

One 7 X 57 will handle anything in North America.

But three will do it better. Mine are a pre 64 M70 carbine a custom 7x57 Improved and another custom in 275 Rigby.

I can hunt anything that walks the earth with a rifle lol

[Michael Moffa]

In Sweden only 6 guns, sheesh, I'd have trouble once I hit 6 gun safes.

[Bill Murphy]

I live hundreds of miles from Craig Larter, but I am well acquainted with all the collectors he mentions.

[Joseph Sheerin]

New guy digging up old threads again... :D

I just read through this, very interesting discussion as I just started getting into SxS's about 8 years ago, or about the time I turned 50.....

The interest in SxS's seems to be an ebb and flow sort of thing, although I do think those ebbs and flows are getting smaller as time passes.

A couple of reasons for this, IMHO... In my home state, hunting is still very popular, but most of the hunting today is Deer, Turkeys, and waterfowl. Hunting for small game like rabbits, squirrel is down, and upland bird hunting outside of preserves, seems to be dissapearing, unless you are able to own your own land and manage for the birds. For turkey and waterfowl hunting, the old SxS is a long way from the shotgun of choice, because for waterfowl, you have to use steel/nontoxic shot, and for Turkeys, everyone is wanting to use 3.5" high velocity shells, with TSS being the rage now. For some reason, these guys think you can't kill a turkey with #6 pheasant load....

I will say, and do hope that many of todays younger hunters get to a stage in their life, where using guns like this becomes desireable to them. I bough my son a 16ga Lefever Nitro when he graduated his Nuke Trainging with the Navy, to sort of introduce him to SxS's.

In the last 6 weeks, I have bought my first 2 Parkers, at prices I didn't think I would ever buy a nice Parker for. I had been looking for a long time, and just never saw a gun I couldn't live without for a price I felt comfortable with.

First was a very clean Parker Trojan, that I had been watching on GB for $699. Late one Saturday night after a few patio cocktails with my wife, it was getting down to end of Auction and still no bids, so I bid $700 just for kicks. Went to bed and next morning was surprised to see I had got it for that price. It's a very nice gun, although pretty heavy, and I plan to use it on some duck hunts, and shooting trap.

Getting that Trojan only made my desire to pick up a VH or nicer even more. Ran across a nice VH12ga on GI, that the guy originally had been asking $1800 for, then he dropped to $1500, and I offered him $1400 and he accepted. Will I lose money on this gun? I don't know, and don't really worry bout it that much, as I intend for it to be my primary upland gun, and have no intention to ever sell it. Some day, my son will get this one.

I am not really a collector like many of you, I am just fascinated by these old guns and wanted to own at least one each of the American made SxS's. I don't have a real Lefever or Win21 right now, and may never own those unless prices on 21's come down, or I find just the right lefever for me.

I joined PGCA because I love the fact that with Parker guns there is a group of people out there that are keeping the history of them alive, and hopefully future generations will learn to enjoy these guns as much as we have.

Ordered the Letter for my VH yesterday, and can't wait to get it.:cheers:

[Ronald Moore]

I said I would stop at 50. 100. and now 150, I just bought three yesterday, someone asked why do you need so many guns, I always answer need and want have no correlation want always wins.

Ron Moore

[Bill Murphy]

Finally, one of us who admits to owning 150. Who will raise that figure and admit to 200 or 250? I remember 40 or 45 years ago, thinking I owned too many Winchester pump guns and that I needed to play catchup with double guns. I took immediate action and haven't entertained such thoughts again.

[Milton C Starr]

Finally, one of us who admits to owning 150. Who will raise that figure and admit to 200 or 250? I remember 40 or 45 years ago, thinking I owned too many Winchester pump guns and that I needed to play catchup with double guns. I took immediate action and haven't entertained such thoughts again.

When I was at my FFL about a week or so ago they had a Winchester Model 12 in 16 gauge , I didnt look at the serial number but it had the early slender style stock on it . The previous owner apparently had screw in choke tubes installed and it had one that extended about 2" past the muzzle . The gun itself looked nice but once you got to the muzzle it looked kind of out of place haha .

[charlie cleveland]

I don't buy a gun for an investment thing or an old antique car I buy them because I wont it if I can afford it...if not I may sell something cheap to be able to get it...its all about want for me....charlie

[allen newell]

I buy because i like the gun and want to shoot it. Focusing only on 16 and 20 ga sxs's. Fox and Parker. Will be selling my 12 ga VHE that Brad Bachelder restored. Stay tuned