Fishtail toplevers on Hammerless Parkers

[Mills Morrison]

Let's try something fun. Like a lot of us, I am a fan of fishtail toplevers and really like them on hammerless Parkers.

Let's do a survey of fishtails on HAMMERLESS Parkers. They appeared on Parker hammerguns a lot longer, but there appears to be a period in the early 1890's where they appeared on hammerless guns.

I have sn 65759 which is a GH hammerless and does NOT have a fishtail

Sn 66,223 does have a fishtail toplever

I have several serial numbers up to 71811 which DOES have a fishtail. All hammerless Parkers I own within this range have fishtails.

Sn 74014 does NOT have a fishtail.


I would like to know if those of you who have hammerless fishtail Parkers have ones that are before 66223 or after 71811. I think I have seen some in the 72,000 range, but do not remember exactly

Further, does anyone have any regular toplevers that fall within this serial number range.

Privacy will be respected. Feel free to pm me. I am hoping to learn more and share the findings in a Parker Pages article soon.

Thanks!

[Brian Dudley]

I think that based on previous discussions here, the latest reported fishtail lever was around 1905 or so.

[CraigThompson]

Ive got an 1892 GH 12 with a fishtail but I also have several 10's from 1889 that DO NOT have a fishtail . Matter of fact I've got several pre 1885 hammer guns that do not have fish tail levers also .

[Bob Hayes]

I have 67337 with a fishtail lever manuf. 1891
Love them by the way.

[Mills Morrison]

I remember that one, but besides it, every Parker I see in the sn range above has a fishtail toplever and every one I see outside of that sn range has the regular straight toplever.

[Mills Morrison]

Ive got an 1892 GH 12 with a fishtail but I also have several 10's from 1889 that DO NOT have a fishtail . Matter of fact I've got several pre 1885 hammer guns that do not have fish tail levers also .



Yes, none of the really early hammerless Parkers I have seen have the fishtail and the earlier toplever hammer guns do not either.

The fishtails seem to appear on hammerless Parkers around 66,000

[Dean Romig]

And as discussed on previous occasions, it is believed that the fishtail or “serpentine” top lever were used on hammerless guns simply to use up old stock. They were designed for hammer guns in order to provide enough clearance to allow opening the gun with the right hammer fully cocked. This again begs the question, “why would the superior design of the Underlifter action be discarded and the Top Action design be adopted in its place?”

Further, after the introduction of the fishtail lever, not all Parker hammer guns were fitted with it.... and after it started being fitted to hammerless guns, a comparative few had it.



.

[Mills Morrison]

Trying to get some better data.

[Craig Larter]

Both my Parker hammerless FT's fall within your slot.

[Mills Morrison]

Thanks for the responses. I am trying to gather some hard empirical data to back up (or disprove) what has been speculation and loose data up until now.

[Rich Anderson]

70253 a GHE 0 frame 16 has the fishtail top lever.

[Jay Oliver]

I really like the fish tale levers as well. Though I don't have a hammerless Parker with one. And after reading this thread I want one!

Most of my TA hammer guns have the straight top lever. Mills this may or may not help... the 1909 TA Hammer gun the sold on Gun Broker a few weeks ago, Serial#149687 had a fish tail lever.

[Mills Morrison]

Thanks Jay. I did notice that.

[Dean Romig]

I wonder where, if not in The Parker Story or any of the other books written on the Parker gun, one might find such “empirical data”?





.

[Dean Romig]

I really like the fish tale levers as well. Though I don't have a hammerless Parker with one. And after reading this thread I want one!

Most of my TA hammer guns have the straight top lever. Mills this may or may not help... the 1909 TA Hammer gun the sold on Gun Broker a few weeks ago, Serial#149687 had a fish tail lever.

Chuck Bishop may (or may not) reply in support of my remembering at least one hammerless Parker ordered actually specifying the fishtail or serpentine top lever.





.

[Mills Morrison]

Hopefully Chuck will, although none of the letters for mine say anything about it.

[todd allen]

My DH 12 #73179 has a fish tail lever.

[todd allen]

I don't know if this helps, but my 0 Frame 16 hammer gun #72105 Is also a fish tail top lever.

[Mills Morrison]

Thanks Todd. That would set an upper limit.

[Scott Gentry]

GH 16 ga 73259 has fishtail. ( Hammerless)

[Jack Huber]

Mills this may or may not help... the 1909 TA Hammer gun the sold on Gun Broker a few weeks ago, Serial#149687 had a fish tail lever.
I bought that gun, the fish tail was one reason I wanted it. I wonder if there is another gun (hammer or hammerless) made after that with the fish tail lever?

[Mills Morrison]

Thanks Scott!

That is another upper limit

Now, does anyone have a hammerless fishtail Parker below 66,000 or above 74,000? Does anyone have a straight toplever within those serial numbers?

[Mills Morrison]

I bought that gun, the fish tail was one reason I wanted it. I wonder if there is another gun (hammer or hammerless) made after that with the fish tail lever?



Good snag Jack. I wonder too. Later toplever hammer guns seem to all have the fishtail (that I have seen anyway)

[Jerry VanHorn]

Mills..I have 66,156...12 ga..Should have paid more attention To Mill's ??..Mine is hammer,,,j..

[charlie cleveland]

i do not have a hammerless gun with a fishtail but have several guns wwith hammers that have the fishtail....all thee of my parker 8 ga hammer guns have the fishtail....several of my 10 gas have the fish tail....the 8 ga serial no s range from 24000 to 60.000i like the fish tail lever on hammer guns but like the straight lever on the hammerless guns...charlie

[Michael Linn]

1892 DH 12 ga. #70662 has a fishtail

[Rick Losey]

Yes, none of the really early hammerless Parkers I have seen have the fishtail and the earlier toplever hammer guns do not either.

The fishtails seem to appear on hammerless Parkers around 66,000

well- how is this for a theory -

when the hammerless first came onto the scene - they were still making and selling hammer guns as well, so the FT still fit a need

as the newfangled hammerless guns took off and hammer gun sales began to decline- the need to use up the FT lever inventory became apparent - so they started putting them on some of the new design.

that would explain why early hammerless do not have them but after a while for a short range of numbers - they show up regularly

BTW - its within your known range - my latest made FT is PH # 70168

[Matthew Hanson]

I've got a fishtail GH 12 ga. 69,841 ordered in 1892. Damascus 28" barrels. Love the gun.

Matt

[Mills Morrison]

Rick, I think that is correct basically . I have not seen any straight toplevers within this range and they appeared on all guns seen in this range regardless of grade. I wonder if part of their reason for being was aesthetic

[John Campbell]

well- how is this for a theory -

when the hammerless first came onto the scene - they were still making and selling hammer guns as well, so the FT still fit a need

as the newfangled hammerless guns took off and hammer gun sales began to decline- the need to use up the FT lever inventory became apparent - so they started putting them on some of the new design.

BINGO! Use up the old stock. THEN make and install the new straight levers. Just good business.

[Steve Parker]

I have #70834, Parker DH 10. A great waterfowl gun!

[Michael Moffa]

66378 Grade 5 Fishtail

[Mills Morrison]

Thanks Michael. And that adds another high grade to our list.

[Dave Suponski]

68805 PH16 26”

[Daryl Corona]

DH12 70658 32"

[Mills Morrison]

Thanks Dave and Daryl!

[Dean Romig]

67669 Grade 2 Hammerless 12 gauge 30” Damascus barrels on the 1-frame weighing 7 lbs., 12 oz.

59469 Grade 0 or 1 (listed as PT A C 12 32 and now sports 30” Vulcan Steel barrels.





.

[Mills Morrison]

Thanks Dean. That 59000 range one is the first seen out of the range above. Do you have a letter and does it say anything?

[Dean Romig]

Mills, 59469 is a hammer gun... but you probably saw that.





.

[Mills Morrison]

Ok. I missed that.

[Michael Moffa]

Got two 59's, hammerless and straight levers.

[Dean Romig]

Michael, is that 59,000 serial no. range?





.

[Mills Morrison]

59000 should have straight levers if my theory is correct

[Wayne Owens]

71910 CH 12 gauge has fishtail
73318 PH 16 gauge does not have a fishtail

[Mills Morrison]

Thanks Wayne.

For purposes of this thread, I am interested in hammerless Parkers.

Happy New Year!

[Michael Moffa]

Dean, 59,4xx straight and 59,8xx straight.

[Mike Koneski]

Mills, I picked up a 30" 12g GH fishtail top lever #71591.

[Bill Murphy]

Hammerless 12, #69,310, fishtail lever. Hammerless 20, 71,179, fishtail lever.

[Mills Morrison]

Thanks Bill and thanks to all with substantive responses

[Victor Wasylyna]

69,780 has a fishtail lever and is hammerless.

-Victor

[keavin nelson]

66,842, P grade, 12 Ga - fishtail
71,xxx, P grade, 12 ga - straight

[Mills Morrison]

Keavin, Is 71,xxx a hammer or hammerless? Thanks

[keavin nelson]

Hammerless Mills

[Rick Losey]

Hammerless Mills

had to read back a post :rotf:

thought you were giving him a new nickname

[Mills Morrison]

Thanks Kevin!

Funny Rick

[Bob Hayes]

Woody Denton has serial #66559 with a fishtail lever

[Mike Koneski]

I took #71591 out for a spin today. I picked it up locally last summer. Shot it today for the first time. Let's say I am very pleased. Triggers are great. Gun locks up solid and it does reach out and turn those clays into diesel smoke beyond 40 yards with 1 oz Fiocchi Shooting Dynamics shells!!

[Mills Morrison]

Keavin Nelson, do you have a letter on your PH with straight lever from 71,000 sn range and does the letter say anything about the toplever?

Thanks

[Dallas Passow]

Any ideas on value for yours? Looking at buying a very similar parker. Not sure on reasonable price though

QUOTE=Bob Hayes;288558]I have 67337 with a fishtail lever manuf. 1891
Love them by the way.[/QUOTE]

[Milton C Starr]

Mills theres a PH 20 Fishtail on GB its serial # is 70022

[Mills Morrison]

Thanks Milton!

[Milton C Starr]

Thanks Milton!

Heres some pics of it , its the table cloth guy again . His prices always seem to be all over the place but he does have alot of Parkers .

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/857490137

[Craig Larter]

Mills i own 65685 hammerless fishtail, may be the lowest serial number with a FT or have you recorded a lower serial number?? Craig

[edgarspencer]

I’m a southpaw, and I just find it easier to open the gun, cocked or not.

[Mills Morrison]

Mills i own 65685 hammerless fishtail, may be the lowest serial number with a FT or have you recorded a lower serial number?? Craig

Yep, that is the lowest. Thanks

[Mills Morrison]

Heres some pics of it , its the table cloth guy again . His prices always seem to be all over the place but he does have alot of Parkers .

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/857490137



Thanks Milton

[Kingston Wulff]

I have S/N 66577 in 12ga. with the fishtail lever. This falls within your survey range. Thanks for the article in this month's Parker Pages.

[Mills Morrison]

Thanks Kingston!

[George Davis]

Hammerless GH 73,198 June 1892 Fishtail # 1 Frame
Hammerless GH 75,309 July 1895 Straight # 2 Frame

[Mills Morrison]

Thanks Scott! I hope the article helps expand our Parker knowledge.

[keavin nelson]

Mills,
you may add # 72131, C grade 12 Ga. hammerless to your list, with Bernard barrels no less!

[Garry L Gordon]

Mills,
you may add # 72131, C grade 12 Ga. hammerless to your list, with Bernard barrels no less!
Fishtail lever AND Bernard barrels -- be still my heart!