Considering a Parker Purchase-Advice Needed

[Mike Jones]

I have been seriously contemplating the purchase of a Parker The shop has it as a D grade and the serial number was 102xxx and that came back as 1901 year of manufacture. The gun has 2 3/4" chambers and the tubes look great. The gun has blued Damascus barrels and the receiver is silver with nice engraving. The bottom of the pistol grip has a white ivory cap on it. The wood looks great, the butt still has the skeleton plate on it so I think its original and the engraving is sharp. The only case colors left are beneath the forearm. Lastly the lockup is very tight but I have to push the release lever right to close the shotgun as it does not stay left when I break it open. Are any of these cause for concerns? Are Damascus barrels normally blued? Can they be used with modern loads?

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Mike how long are the barrels, grip cap is added are special order get a letter! 60 bucks is cheap when considering spending 2000 or more, sounds like it needs a good cleaning, and no they did not blue damascus at the factory. Could have been don to make you think it is steel.

[Chris Travinski]

Mike, the lever not staying in place while the gun is open is probably not a big deal. Most likely it just needs to be cleaned, there isn't alot to break in there.

[Mark Ouellette]

Mike,

Are you looking for a collector's piece or great shooter? The following is for considering a great shooter.

If the barrels have not been cut (see other threads for instructions on how to evaluate), the screws are not damaged, and all else is in good condition, the price is fair to good.

A note of caution is that if the bores are perfect it might be wise to check the barrel thickness. Light barrel pitting can be removed by reaming or honing. This of course reduces the thickness of the barrel walls. Providing the barrels are still thick enough the gun will be shootable.

Modern loads? This is at your own risk but many of us do shoot some modern loads in our Parkers. For 99% of my shooting with Parkers, even those with fluid steel barrels, I use low pressure loads. I have however very sparingly shot modern heavy loads, even some with steel shot, in my Damascus Parkers. I have of couse checked the thickness of my barrels and am confident their remaining thickness provides enough barrel strength.

The top lever not staying open is likely that whoever last took the gun apart lost the little spring that causes the "trip" to engage to hold the top lever open. This is an easy repair for anyone familiar with disassembly of Parkers. There could however be other problems other than the trip spring.

The barrels can be "redone" to remove the blue and restore the Damascus pattern for about $400. Sources for this are Craig Smith of Circle Fly Wads, Brad Bachelder, and several others. Please note that blueing could be covering dents that have been removed. All the more reason to consider an expert evaluation.

For $2500 I'd reach out to other PGCA members (please join the PGCA) to help in a evaluation at the gun shop. Of course when you ask for this type of assistance you should be ready to "pull the trigger" if the gun is in great condition and worth the price! With the luggage case which you mentioned, a DH in good condition won't last long at the asking price.

You might ask the gun shop for a 3 day inspection period. If granted rush it to someone who can properly inspect a Parker.

This of course is my opinion for what it may be worth. Other's opinions may be different.

[Ed Blake]

Since the barrels have been blued, make sure they have not been hot-blued. If there is a small hole drilled in the underrib, be careful. Hot-blueing will compromise the solder.

[Bruce Day]

Mike,

.... I have however very sparingly shot modern heavy loads, even some with steel shot, in my Damascus Parkers.....


Aaaah. Another confessed member of the "M" club. You are the tenth so far, Mark, along with me of course.

[Frank Cronin]

Mike how long are the barrels, grip cap is added are special order get a letter!

The grip cap in the picture is white. Is this unusual? I thought they were normally black.

Just learning...

Frank

[Russ Jackson]

Hello Mike ,Unless I missed it you haven't mentioned what gauge this Parker is ,if it happens to be a 20 Gauge or smaller ,there is a substantial difference in the value between the 12 Ga., and the Smaller Gauge guns ! Pictures of the end of the barrel by the Bead would be helpful in determining if the barrels have been cut or are original also ! There are many things in these old guns we collect that make up the value of them ! I n the pic. you posted the gun looks like a nice gun ,as in a previous post a day or so ago ,I mentioned a 16 Ga. D Grade I had purchased which had been blued and after sending it out to have the bluing removed and the barrels refinished ,it proved to need to have the Top Rib Relaid ,probably because of the bluing job ! Brad Bachelder did the barrels for me and the relaying did add some cost ,but it wasn't drastic and made the gun safe and solid to shoot ! Best of luck on your new gun ,if you decide to but it ,you will surely enjoy it ! Russ

[Bruce Day]

The grip cap in the picture is white. Is this unusual? I thought they were normally black.

Just learning...

Frank

That's because the gun owner had one carved in ivory. Not factory of course and it will appeal to some and not others.

[Eric Eis]

That's because the gun owner had one carved in ivory. Not factory of course and it will appeal to some and not others.

I don't know Bruce normally I would agree with you, but after see Bill Murphy's "Pimp gun" and it lettered out I won't make those discisions until I get a letter....Bill's gun was over the top and I would have sworn that there was no way Parker would have done that to one of their guns....but they did...:shock: So like they say never say never until you get the letter....

[Bruce Day]

Eric, I actually kind of like it, surprise, surprise, but I do.

But I'll go with a 99.06% chance that's its not Parker done. $20?

[Dave Suponski]

Bruce, At least it will match your hat...

[Bruce Day]

Bruce, At least it will match your hat...

The good guys always wear white.

[Mike Jones]

The shotgun is a 12 ga with 2 3/4 " chambers. Is this a normal offering? I will measure the barrels and take a pic of the end of the barrels. Checked both barrels and they chimed beautifully. Does this mean the ribs are in good condition? What would a research letter tell me about this gun? Finally, one member recommended enlisting help of other PGCA members in the evaluation. Is there a listing by region? Thank you for all help here! Its very much appreciated.

[Jim Williams]

No one has mentioned it, but the first thing I think of when the top rib says "Damascus" and the barrels are blued is Sleeved Barrels. Granted, I don't see any tell-tale lines just forward of the chambers in the pics, but you want to look very closely to see if it might have been sleeved. They might even be marked "sleeved" on the flats or bottom of the tubes.

Jim

[Mark Ouellette]

Hi Mike,

As a new to this forum member with only 2 posts it would be appropriate for you to provide your general location and request help in evaluating your potential purchase from any local members.

PGCA members are provided a contact list of the membership. When one joins they provide their address. Although it is not much, one's address and their membership fee provides other members a notion that they are not a scammer.

Respectfully,
Mark

[Eric Eis]

No I won't take that bet because you are probably right, but you never know:shock: !!!! Eric

[Ken Descovich]

Hey Eric,
Will Bruce give you 99 to 1 odds?

Ken

[Eric Eis]

Hey Eric,
Will Bruce give you 99 to 1 odds?

Ken

Hadn't thought of that....!

[Mike Jones]

Does the wood look original on this piece?

[Dean Romig]

Mike, the wood and checkering look to be original but without having more and better pictures or actually having the gun in hand it is difficult to say more.

[Francis Morin]

Is this an insider thing, or an actual Parker perhaps owned by, in the words of the late George Smith Patton Jr.- "A cheap pimp in a New Orleans Sportin' House"??

Years ago, when I worked for Van Dam Boiler Co. I saw a "tricked out" 20 gauge Ithaca Auto & Burglar gun- it was in a carrying case, and the wooden grips were inset with either pearl or other showy material. One of the owners was a big time gun collector, specializing in handguns and especially from the "Roaring twenties era" in our history.

Van Dam was based in Grand Haven- all along the eastern shoreline of lake Michigan were houses and hideouts, mainly Capone & Co. from "Shy-Town". Great but violent history indeed.

[Bill Murphy]

I just looked at the picture again and can see a sleeve line. I think the gun is sleeved. Now I looked at the picture again and can't see the sleeve line. I just don't know.

[Dean Romig]

I don't see any evidence of a line Bill. If the age of the gun had indicated Damascus barrels I certainly would suspect the blued barrels might have been sleeved but....

[Bill Murphy]

Age of the gun or no age of the gun, the original poster said the gun has Damascus barrels.

[Mike Jones]

The barrels are indeed Damascus and here is a shot of the front of the barrels that might or might not be of some help if seeing they are sleeved.

[Jim Williams]

Mike,

That pic would POSSIBLY be of help in determining if the barrels were "lined," (but only if it were in focus!) but it is the wrong view to determine if they were "sleeved". The term "sleeved" means the ribs were stripped off, the original barrels cut off just in front of the chambers, then the chambers bored-out to accept new barrels that are soldered in. Then the original ribs are re-laid. Since the new tubes are almost invariably blued fluid steel, not damascus, the situation arises where one has an original rib that says "Damascus" but the gun actually has blued steel barrels (except for the chamber section, which is still damascus on the outside, but re-blued to match the new tubes grafted on). It takes a real artisan to hide the line where the new tubes meet the old chambers, but it can be done. Most sleeved guns show at least a little bit of a tell-tale line in the form of a hairline band around each barrel just about where the chambers end. This is where the new meets old. A useful picture to help determine would be a close-up (and in sharp focus) shot of about the first six inches of the outside of the barrels at the chamber end.

If your barrels are in fact still original damascus that has been blued-over, you should be able to barely make out a little hint of the fingerprint-like damascus pattern hiding underneath the bluing. But remember, just because the ribs say "Damascus" doesn't mean they still are (i.e. sleeved barrels).

I wasn't saying that your barrels aren't damascus, just that if they are BLUED as you stated, that you might want to check to SEE if they have been sleeved.

Jim

[Mark Ouellette]

Mike,

As Jim stated, the barrels should have Damascus patter visable. Take off the forend and check the spots where the forend would have rubbed on the barrel blueing.

Mark

[Mike Jones]

Thank you for the explanation on sleeving. I can definitely see a light damascus pattern on the barrels. The seller is wanting $2500 and I am guessing from an above post it might be a little much. Is $1600 a better offer for today's market? Again thank you for answering a bunch of questions, this is my first time to purchase a firearm in this category and I want to do it right.

[Dean Romig]

Mike, it is my opinion that the gun appears to be in nice condition - checkering looks very nice and original and the wood looks to have been well cared for. If the barrels are full length Damascus and the wall thickness is sufficient for everyday shooting and if they are original length I would make an offer of the asking price minus the cost to refinish the barrels back to their former black and white glory.... probably around $350 or so.