A Curious Thing

[Richard LeStage]

Last spring I acquired a wonderful PH 16 ga with 28" Twist barrels. I was shooting it for the first time at an RGS shoot in June and a curious thing happened. After shooting two rounds (RST 2-1/2") at the fifth station, the gun was frozen shut. The top lever wouldn't budge. Try as I might, I couldn't open the gun. So I finished the shoot sharing my son's gun. At the end of the day it still wouldn't open. The next morning I was prepared to take it to a gunsmith to deal with it, but before I started I tried it one more time, and it opened! In casual conversation with other shooters I know, a few suggestions were floated: 1. Those old Parkers were not designed to shoot a lot of rounds in a short amount of time and maybe the heat expanded certain metal parts to cause the problem. 2. Sometimes one or both firing pins don't retract. 3. The old gun was dirty inside and gummed up with gooey old lubricants. Has anyone out there ever run into this curious thing before? By the way, in October I used this gun in ME, NY, WI, MN and the UP and it has not happened again.

[Dean Romig]

Number 1. is a preposterous assumption.

Number 2. is a reasonable assumption as is Number 3.





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[Rick Losey]

agreed Dean

though I might have phrased the answer to #1 with bovine #2 :rolleyes:

[Brian Dudley]

The hammers and pins would not have anything to do with it if in fact the lever is not moving.

If the lever was opening, but breech not, then the pins sticking in the primers could be the issue.

But the OP described it as the lever not moving at all.

[Eric Eis]

Do a strip and clean and that will probably solve the issue.

[Richard Flanders]

It could well be the shell rims are out of round and stuck in the rim recesses, especially if they were WinAA. Remington STS don't seem to do it in my experience. I have two guns that this happens to. The issue has been discussed here a number of times.

[John Davis]

Richard: But that wouldn't affect the top lever would it?

[John Davis]

And Dean: I concur, proposition No. 1 is preposterous, as well as BS.

[John Davis]

June 18, 1881, The Chicago Field, “Mr. Haskell’s Remarkable Record. Lynn, Mass. Editor Chicago Field: - The glass ball exhibition at the base ball grounds, on Memorial Day, was witnessed by about 2,000 persons. There was sweep shooting until 3:30 p. m., when the event of the day took place. This was the match of Mr. J. C. Haskell to beat the best time of Captain Bogardus in breaking 500 glass balls. The conditions of the match were to break 500 balls in less than 25 minutes and 15 seconds, to shoot from Bogardus traps, placed 12 feet apart, the shooter to stand 15 yards distant from the traps, and to load his own guns. But one ball to be sprung at a time. Mr. Haskell used four Parker Bros.’ guns; charge, 2 3/4 drams Brackett powder, 1 1/4 oz. No. 8 shot. The judges were, J. M. Hoyt and Dr. Ahearm; referee, J. Nichols; scorer, Eugene Barry; E. W. Webster pulled the traps; H. Mortimer of Boston, attended to cooling the guns. At 3:30 the heat was intense, but the shooting was commenced promptly on time. In the first 250 he fell slightly behind the record, breaking them in 13 minutes, but increasing his speed in the last 200. He finished the 500 in 24 minutes and 2 seconds, missing 16 balls, and beating Captain Bogardus’ record 1 minute and 13 seconds, and his own record, made February 22, 13 seconds. The Captain said that he did not expect to see such good shooting and that at some future time he would shoot Mr. Haskell a match for any amount.”

[Richard Flanders]

Yes, it does effect the top lever. The rims somehow expand and exert pressure on the locking bolt so the lever will not budge. Happens every time. Sometimes I can hand squeeze the barrels down enough that the lever will move and the gun open. Other times I've had to bring the gun home and clamp it delicately in a rubber jawed vise to release the bolt so the lever will move. I'd be pretty sure his problem with this gun was just that. The cure for me has been to never shoot AA hulls in my DH12. I can shoot anything else, and especially old paper ammo, all week long with no issues. AA rims are not round so are prone to stick in the round rim recess. Put a hull standing upright on the bench and hold a caliper against the rim as if to measure the diameter and rotate the shell and you'll see how out of round they are.

[Dean Romig]

June 18, 1881, The Chicago Field, “Mr. Haskell’s Remarkable Record. Lynn, Mass. Editor Chicago Field: - The glass ball exhibition at the base ball grounds, on Memorial Day, was witnessed by about 2,000 persons. ”


On June 24, 1966 the Rolling Stones performed at Manning Bowl in Lynn, MA as the opening performance of their “American Tour” in front of 17,000 curious and excited fans, their first ever appearance in the US. Most likely the location of the very same ball park.
I had to work that night...






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[todd allen]

Old Timer alert!
:)

[Hal Sheets]

But in this case they were RST 21/2" shells.

[Richard Flanders]

Then check the RST rims for roundness with a caliper. Take a batch of shells and insert the rims into the barrel rim recesses backwards and see if the bind. Many AA's are oblate and will. Some are out of round enough that when you just close the gun they are forced into the recesses and, without firing it, it will already open hard, and sometimes hard enough that you can't open it.

[allen newell]

That was 2 years before leaving for Viet Nam. I missed that performance but do remember hearing about it

[Dean Romig]

I graduated high school the week before that concert.....





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[allen newell]

Lol

[Harry Collins]

Allen, I was there in 68 as well and I'm glad you made it home. Almost 17,000 didn't come home that year. I was I Corp most of the year then III Corp for a few months. Semper Fortis

[allen newell]

Harry, we covered (gun fire support/shore bombardment) I corps exclusively except for a number of "danger close " missions off North Viet Nam. I would have rather been able to go to the concert that Dean spoke about.

[James Shumaker]

The cause of these types of problems is explained in an article I have submitted to the Parker Pages editors. Briefly, the cause is the difference in angles of the bore line and the standing breech which allows the head of the shell to be smunched a-kilter from firing pressure. I hope it will appear in the Winter issue.

[Dean Romig]

It is in the Winter Issue James - and Thank You Very Much for your contribution.





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[Richard Flanders]

Yes James! There is that also. You can see that difference when you drop a rim recess reamer like I have from Clymer into the bore. The cutters do not hit evenly on the recess because the chamber end of the barrels is not 90deg to the bore axis. Because of that I have not tried to ream my DH12 recesses. I was/am also very reluctant to modify the recesses just to fit poorly made shells.

[James Shumaker]

Has anyone compared the current recess dimensional standards to that of yesteryear? And, Richard, your comment about the reamer seems to suggest you would be increasing the diameter since the bottom of the recess should be 90 degrees to the bore.

[Richard Flanders]

I had no way of determining what if anything was off but suspected that the reamer was not made properly. Nicely made old paper shells drop right in and the rims fit just fine if the shells are put in backwards to compare the rim with the recess. All I could see was that the reamer was not hitting the recess evenly and I was not about to experiment. I just don't shoot AA hulls in the gun, ever. My 28ga Repro does the exact same thing with AA hulls and sticks shut even harder than the DH12. I've had to put the Repro in the vise more than once to get it open.

[charlie cleveland]

aint it a shame that everything made a 100 years ago is better than nrw things...mabe man is going backwards instead of forwards ...charlie

[Richard LeStage]

The gun is now in the hands of a highly respected gunsmith. In his opinion there was something (probably a piece of shot) down in the action which eventually moved. There can be no other explanation.

[Dean Romig]

I wonder how a shot pellet could have gained entry to a Parker's innards.....





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[James Shumaker]

And even if a shot pellet were inside, can't envision how it could block lever movement.

[Brian Dudley]

Though it could be possible. Especially with reloads and bad crimps... I think the statement of "maybe a piece of shot getting in there" is a lot like "maybe it needs to be cleaned". A general statement made not knowing the actual cause of the issue.