New member new gun

[James Purdy]

Good evening
I have been a long time enthusiast for classic doubles. I already own some other American , English and Italian guns. I made a large leap into the Parker world with the recent acquisition of a 1905 BHE. It’s 12g, 2 3/4 on a 2 frame. I did get a research letter on the gun and I am very pleased to say it is as ordered minus hunting wear. The case is negligible, barrels and bore good, wood has dings and dents no breaks or alterations. Fully functioning.
I love the gun but not sure how to proceed. Maintaining the guns value is paramount, can it be refreshed as the english guns often are without depreciation? Or should it get a full blown restoration?
Thanks.
James(Jim)

[Rick Losey]

pictures please

but on the whole for American doubles collectors - generally - original with honest wear is better unless there are condition issues that require repairs -

[Patrick Barrett]

Welcome! I'm relatively new as well but... you've come to the right place. Good people here with vast knowledge and willing to share it also.

A Parker is a gun to behold. I was lucky to be given a Parker 12 when I was a young kid. I still have it and treasure days out shooting her. I recently added a Remington 1894 10ga to my stable; she's like a big Parker. Its all good! Welcome!

[Gerald McPherson]

Welcome James. I've heard that name some where before I think.

[Harry Collins]

The name is associated with a small shop on South Audely Street W1

[James Purdy]

Ha yes is true. I share the name minus the e in the last. It makes for some raised eyebrows among the gun club. I don’t currently have one of my namesakes guns but I am sure one will find its way to me at some point.
I will get some pictures of my Parker up over the weekend. Cheers!
Jim

[James Purdy]

So finally got some pics together. My question about the restore stems from the damage on the stock at base of checkered panel on left side. It isn’t structural but it some serious marring done long ago.

[James Purdy]

Some of the wood.

[Dave Noreen]

Beautiful gun. Congrats. Flyers look out!!

To my eye, something is amiss about that forearm. Shouldn't the forearm tip of a 1905 vintage BHE-Grade have the raised eyebrow?

78331

78332

Likewise shouldn't it have full coverage checkering? According to The Parker Story, 1905, in the 134xxx serial number range was the transition from the Titanic Steel barrels to the Acme Steel barrels for the BH-/BHE-Grade.

[Brian Dudley]

What a fantastic gun!!! With some very interesting features.

A research letter, if available should verify a lot of information on the gun and these features.

I have no doubt that the monte carlo stock is factory original as the form of the stock in completely correct for that style of comb. The butt treatment is a big question. It could have been fitted with an ssbp or a pad originally, or maybe even wood checkered like it is presently, but the shape of it looks a bit off and maybe altered some. But the length looks right.

Safety delete is a special order feature for sure.
The engraving is very unique in that it has no game scenes on the sides. What does the bottom look like? No game as well? All floral and scroll on grades like this are usually always on special request. And the deeper relief floral on the sides is somewhat atypical for the grade.

Dave (researcher) mentions the style of the forend tip. It is the later style tip. And i see that the forend looks like it could have a lot less signs of wear than the buttstock. I suspect that the barrels and forend may be an additional set added later on in the 1920s. When a set of barrels were added, they would also have their own forend assembly to go with them. That would explain the style of the forend tip for sure.
Does your barrel forend lug and forend iron have a “2” stamped on them? Or any sort of number?

Or, the original barrels could have outright been replaced for one reason or another.

[edgarspencer]

That's a very unusual and beautiful gun. Both the tip and latch are incorrect of a grade 5 gun, but the checkering pattern could have been either full, or as seen on grade 3 and 4.
The tip and latch shown below are from a 1904 BHE

[James Purdy]

Some additional pics showing more of the floral work and the gold shield. The forend tip looks unaltered, I edited for privacy the research letter. It makes clear the barrels. The original owner had quite a notable law career to say the least. He loved the hunt, and the gun shows it. It is incredible how tight and smooth the action is. Ejectors still timed perfectly. It needs the screws placed properly, and I would like to have the left side of the checkered panels repaired if it can be done preserving the guns natural look.

[James Purdy]

This what a quick google of Isaac Pitblado gave up..

[James Purdy]

That's a very unusual and beautiful gun. Both the tip and latch are incorrect of a grade 5 gun, but the checkering pattern could have been either full, or as seen on grade 3 and 4.
The tip and latch shown below are from a 1904 BHE

Wow thank you !!! You are correct. And if you can believe it I know where the correct one is. There were two guns in the auction a dhe and this one. I just looked over the pictures of the dhe gun and it was wearing a grade 5 forend as you pictured!! I have just emailed to auctioneer to make contact with the successful bidder of the dhe and make a trade happen.. can you believe that!!!! Holy lifting Thank you for posting the forend pic..

[Brian Dudley]

“No butt” would be the checkered wood butt. Interesting that it does not mention the monte carlo comb. Though I would suspect it to be original.

[Brian Dudley]

Wow thank you !!! You are correct. And if you can believe it I know where the correct one is. There were two guns in the auction a dhe and this one. I just looked over the pictures of the dhe gun and it was wearing a grade 5 forend as you pictured!! I have just emailed to auctioneer to make contact with the successful bidder of the dhe and make a trade happen.. can you believe that!!!! Holy lifting Thank you for posting the forend pic..



So, does the forend on your gun not have the matching serial number?

[James Purdy]

Hmmmm the forend iron is serialized to the gun. It seems so strange the dhe has the raised tip and this bhe doesn’t. The wood fits well to the iron.

[James Purdy]

Here is a poor quality shot of the forend on the dhe gun Opinions please.

[Garry L Gordon]

What a nice gun! I hope a good stock craftsman can make the repairs in the appropriate fashion. Good luck with that great piece of history. It would be odd if the forends were exchanged...and they both fit(!)

[edgarspencer]

James, The raised (eyebrow) edge of the fore end tip is not specific to certain grades, but to guns made prior to about 1923. While your fore end iron is serialized to the gun, removing the tip and latch will confirm they are, or are not correct, as they are both stamped with the SN of the gun they left the factory with.

[Brian Dudley]

The raised tip was used on all grades higher than VH before the mid 1920s.

That photo you posed of the DHE forend looks completely correct for a D grade.

[James Purdy]

James, The raised (eyebrow) edge of the fore end tip is not specific to certain grades, but to guns made prior to about 1923. While your fore end iron is serialized to the gun, removing the tip and latch will confirm they are, or are not correct, as they are both stamped with the SN of the gun they left the factory with.

Thank you sir,
I was a little excited about the possible wrong forend on the gun. This was a big leap into Parkers and I admit don't know enough about the finer details to be jumping in quite so boldly.
I did take a good fitting screwdriver, removed the screws and with a brass drift tapped out the latch and tip. They both carry the correct serial that match them to the gun. It has given me much relief.
So to close my part of this thread thank you all for the knowledge members have imparted. This is a lovely gun of which I am very proud to be the new caretaker.
Jim

[Dave Noreen]

The barrels pictured have a 3 grade stamp, red arrow --

78373

and they have the "Parker Bros. Overload Proved" stamp that wasn't used until the late 1920s.

[James Purdy]

The barrels pictured have a 3 grade stamp, red arrow --

78373

and they have the "Parker Bros. Overload Proved" stamp that wasn't used until the late 1920s.

They are serialized to the guns frame, and same length and steel as specified in research letter.

[Dave Noreen]

If the barrels and forearm are serial numbered to the gun, it appears to me that Parker Bros. fitted a new set of barrels and a forearm to that gun in the late 1920s or early 1930s.

[Dean Romig]

Here is a poor quality shot of the forend on the dhe gun Opinions please.

The forend pictured is typical of a grade 3 or 4 gun but not a grade 5.




.

[James Purdy]

So here are all the numbers. Forend latch and tip. Forend iron and barrel flats and action . Numbers appear correct in font . Opinions please.

[Brian Dudley]

The stamping on the barrels is later in style. In line with the stamps used in the 1920s.
the frond matches the frame exactly, so the iron at least is original to time of whole manufacture.
The barrels were likely replacements for the originals. The forend tip may just remain a mystery as to an explanation or which it may have been replaced later on too. Maybe forend iron was reused and wood and other metal parts were replaced with the barrels?

[edgarspencer]

The forend pictured is typical of a grade 3 or 4 gun but not a grade 5..

Dean, I have to disagree with this. I have seen many B grade guns with checkering pattern on the fore end the same as D and C, and you will note that this is stated as such on page 308 of TPS.
I believe the fore end, wood, iron, tip and latch are entirely original to the gun, and agree that the barrels are a later replacement.
Despite my assertion previously that the tip and latch did not appear correct for a grade 5, as the coverage doesn't appear as much as the ones I showed, the numbers on the reverse indicate their originality.
As to why the flat is marked '3', rather than '5', is a mystery, but Titanic barrels were the norm in 1905. TPS states the ACME barrels first showed up in 1905, but that Titanic continued to be supplied for some years afterward.

[Dean Romig]

Edgar... I was not referring to the checkering pattern and unfortunately left out the word "latch" in my post. I know that pattern was the standard used from Grade 3 up to Grade 6 with "check all over" being an option - the only difference being the LPI was finer in Grade 5 and 6 guns. Grade 3 and 4 often (but not always) shared the same LPI in the checkering.

The forend tip Edgar shows from a BHE has extra sculpting only found on Grade 5 and higher guns and the subject gun does not have that extra sculpting, aside from the engraving being somewhat plainer than we would expect to see on a Grade 5.

Not intending to denigrate the gun at all.... just discussing it's peculiarities.





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[James Purdy]

I appreciate all the insight shared. I can only speculate why the barrels were replaced. The man was reportedly an avid waterfowler , we all know the types of mishaps that can take place over a few dozen seasons. Regardless of the guns peculiarities I am very happy with it. The unique engraving work and other special features coupled with the original owners background makes it quite the prize.

[Dean Romig]

It is a very nice - and unique - Parker. I would be happy with it too.





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[Bob Brown]

134037 is mentioned in the Parker Story as the last BH made with Titanic steel barrels. It might be a candidate for the "Parkers Found" list?I see you're from Nova Scotia. Not too far from one of the best Parker wood men around, Chris Dawe. He could fix up the stock for you.

[Bill Murphy]

As is true with many graded Parkers, the replacement of barrels and forend are often downgraded to save money for the owner. The full B Grade replacement would include Acme Steel barrels and a B Grade checkering and engraving pattern. This downgrading is apparently the case with this gun. This should not affect the value of this wonderful gun. Contact Mr. Dawe for repair work, both wood and metal.

[Garth Gustafson]

James, congratulations on that stunning BHE. You're a very lucky man!

Your floorplate screws were individually fitted to their respective holes. If the screws are snug its likely they were put back in the wrong holes at some point when the gun was disassembled. Switching the screws so the slots are aligned with the bores is an easy fix - just be very careful and be sure to use the correct screwdriver head that completely fills the screw slots so as not to mar the screws.

Here's a tip Brian Dudley posted a while back,

The rear screw should be slightly longer or have an x filed on the tip. Looking at the bottom of the gun the left screw tip should be unmarked. The right screw tip should have a hash mark.

Good luck with your stock repair. We look forward to seeing pictures when its finished.

[James Purdy]

I will be proceeding with appropriate repairs by qualified craftsman. Mr. Dawe is well regarded and also close. I am not in a rush as I want a certain result. I don't know if I want to strip away all the life this gun has lived. What I want is to bring it up to date with the care and maintenance befitting a gun of this quality and vintage. The barrel blue is faded, the bores are excellent with no dents, and the action is tight with well timed ejectors. In my mind the gun needs careful attention by a skilled hand with mind to her accomplishments and life lived. I want it “right” again, as opposed to “new”again.

[James Purdy]

As is true with many graded Parkers, the replacement of barrels and forend are often downgraded to save money for the owner. The full B Grade replacement would include Acme Steel barrels and a B Grade checkering and engraving pattern. This downgrading is apparently the case with this gun. This should not affect the value of this wonderful gun. Contact Mr. Dawe for repair work, both wood and metal.

I am not sure about anything having been changed but the barrels alone. Are there examples of the serial stampings on these parts from known replacements? The font size of the latch, iron and tip match the frame exactly. The barrels show the later style number size of the 1920’s.
Being the last BH made originally with titanic steel barrels, I like that it was re-fitted with a pair of titanic steel even though at time of replacement, B grade barrels would have been acme.

[Bob Brown]

James sent me pm asking about where in the Parker Story that said 134037 was the last BH made with Titanic barrels. I thought I'd post part of my reply here in case anyone else was wondering.

Volume 1 of the Parker Story has a series of chapters called the grades. At the end of each chapter, such as the Grade 5(B and BH). At the end of each chapter there are tables with the number of guns made with the different barrel steels and barrel lengths. There were 120 12 gauge BH's made with Titanic steel, and only 30 with 32" barrels. At the bottom of the tables there is some fine print with a few info lines to clarify the tables. Only two Titanic BH's are mentioned, the first made was 87712 in 1897, and the last was 134037 made in 1905. Bottom right hand side of page number 308.

Also, I agree with you about the liking that the barrels were replaced with Titanic rather than Acme steel. It wouldn't be a down grade to replace Titanic with Titanic, but it would have been nice if the forend checkering and engraving patterns were in a BH pattern.

[James Purdy]

Thank you Bob. I appreciate it.

[Chris Chisholm]

Hi Glenn,

I live in Halifax and recently had Chris Dawe complete work on a 1919 GH. I am happy to discuss the process and results with you. Chris is a gentleman who provides great value for money. You can reach me at 902-830-5051.

Chris