Arms and Cycle Works

[Bobby Cash]

Anybody with an opinion of the .410 Skeeter?
Certainly scarce enough but great enough to plunk down big money?
Thanks.

https://i.imgur.com/Pljgnnl.jpg

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https://i.imgur.com/ocRkOoO.jpg?1

[Jerry Harlow]

Upgraded wood for sure.

[Jeff Kuss]

Standard wood for a Skeeter.

[Joe Dreisch]

I recently saw one at the Washington County Gun Show which was almost as nice. Fellow wanted $1500. for it.

[Bill Murphy]

Not a .410 for $1500 I'm sure.

[Joe Dreisch]

Yes, it was a .410.

[Jeff Kuss]

That was a steal!

[Dean Romig]

My .410 two-barrel set with the Miller single trigger sold for $6500.

I loved shooting it at Skeet and at birds too... and I even shot a snowshoe hare with the tighter choked barrels.

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[Mark Ray]

That is a nice one for sure. 4k all day

[Bobby Cash]

Nice set Dean.

More "Cycle Works" wood.

https://i.imgur.com/hdIofSj.png

[Rich Anderson]

My question is whats big money? Thats a nice gun with outstanding wood. In todays 410 market the Skeeter is a bargain.

[Dean Romig]

I agree Rich and I think mine should have hammered considerably higher. I learned a lot from that transaction.





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[Rich Anderson]

Dean you certainly got a raw deal on that from the auction house and subsequently so did I as I was going to buy it from you. Live and learn I guess.

[Bill Murphy]

$6500 is enough in today's market. Maybe not so much a good price few years ago.

[Rich Anderson]

If memory serves Deans gun was the only two barrel set Iver Johnson made in a Skeeter model 410. I think it would be worth more than $6500 in today's market.

[Bobby Cash]

Please, please, please.
For any of you gentlemen who have actually used this gun on game or clays, How would you rate it as a shooter?
Dynamic or fence post? A pleasure or a snoozer? Worthwhile or worthless?
Thanks,
Bob

[Bill Murphy]

A great shooting gun, a 1/4 price alternative to a Parker .410.

[Jeff Kuss]

I shot doves with my Iver Johnson Hercules 410 this week. Very similar to the Skeeter, but not as fancy of wood. It handles very well.

[Rich Anderson]

if you want a 410 you won't go wrong with this one and as Bill said it's far less expensive than a Parker or a Fox.

[Mark Ray]

I have had a 20 and a 28 skeeter, they both handled very nicely. They were configured generally as target guns, and not crazy light like some smallbore hunting guns. The 20 I had was special ordered for a cruise ship, and all of the metal parts were factory nickel plated. Turns out IJ did a few of these in all gauges. I sold the 20 to a buddy that was a big tournament Marlin fisherman. They used it to shoot at flying fish when they were bored!

[Dean Romig]

I loved shooting mine. Dynamic is a good description of how it handled and performed for me.





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[Bill Murphy]

My 30" gun, at 7 pounds, 2 ounces, is very dynamic. It is the ideal combination for a .410 target gun.

[Mark Ray]

This is an assumption. But these guns showed up during the early years of 4 gauge skeet, when many makers did not make “target guns” in small bore, particularly 28 and 410 bore.

With the exception of Winchester, few sxs makers were accommodating the small bore side of the sport, and certainly not the more “affordable” makers.

[Bill Murphy]

K. C. Miller, Texas NSSA skeet shooter, shot an eight pound 00 frame .410 Parker in the thirties, as well as a .410 Skeeter. He broke the first 100 straight in NSSA competition. Neither company used the feat in their advertising, so it is not known which gun he was shooting. Investigation may tell us that the 100 was shot before the Parker was built.

[Bobby Cash]

Front trigger / right barrel "Choke",
75% pellet count, 30" circle at 30 yards

Rear trigger / left barrel "Open",
75% pellet count, 30" circle at 20 yards

The first Skeet In / Skeet Out ?

Also, sounds a lot like the logic behind Winchesters WS2 / WS1
although a selective trigger required "Snicking" to make those true Skeet chokes.

https://i.imgur.com/cVlvq54.jpg?2

[Bill Murphy]

"Snicking"?

[Dave Noreen]

At the time these skeet chokes, like Winchester's WS-1 and WS-2, were designed, it appears to me that tighter barrel was there to make these guns more useful as upland game guns. A selling point? That .014" to .016" of choke in the WS-2 barrel of a Model 21 or the left barrel of Ithaca NID skeet guns is not useful for NSSA Skeet. The way skeet was shot, at the time these guns were designed, one went all the way around the field shooting singles at each station loading one shell at a time --

76404

Then the squad went back to stations one, two, six & seven to shoot doubles --

76405

and anyone who was straight normally shot their option bird at station seven.

Those folks shooting a pump or auto with WS-1 or SKEET choke or that spreader tube in a Cutts were at a distinct advantage over those saddled with that tight choke second barrel.

[Bill Murphy]

Early skeet was a much slower game than it is today. Shooters would follow the outgoing bird past the stake and shoot it at 25 to 30 yards, explaining the use of the skeet 2 choke.. Today, competitive shooters shoot the outgoer before or at the center stake, 21 yards or less, the incomer even closer.

[Dean Romig]

In the sxs Skeet guns of the day, the outgoer was the first target and shot with the Skeet 1 choke which was normally the right barrel... reversed chokes so to speak, on theese guns.





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[Bobby Cash]

"Snicking"?

"Snick" is the sound ofttimes heard when activating a safety or selecting a barrel with a single selector trigger.
Hence the referred to action, "Snicking".

[Dave Noreen]

Only Parker/Remington seemed to normally put the tighter (Skeet Out) choke in the right barrel on Skeet Guns. Ithaca, Fox and Winchester put the open choke in the right barrel. The earliest Remington Model 32 Skeet Guns were improved cylinder in both barrels but by the next year they were Remington's SKEET choke in both, essentially the same as Winchester's WS-1 or Fox's Skeet Cylinder. So, why did Remington put that tighter choke in their Parker Skeet Guns?

[Rich Anderson]

My VHE 16 skeet gun is choked .010 in both barrels. Somewhat tight I think.

[Dean Romig]

Only Parker/Remington seemed to normally put the tighter (Skeet Out) choke in the right barrel on Skeet Guns. Ithaca, Fox and Winchester put the open choke in the right barrel. The earliest Remington Model 32 Skeet Guns were improved cylinder in both barrels but by the next year they were Remington's SKEET choke in both, essentially the same as Winchester's WS-1 or Fox's Skeet Cylinder. So, why did Remington put that tighter choke in their Parker Skeet Guns?

Typically, a shooter was used to shooting the open choked right barrel / front trigger in a game shooting situation first...
In Skeet shooting the first target was the outgoer (Skeet-1) and so as to not confuse the shooter, the right barrel, fired first with the forward trigger, had the tighter(Skeet-1) choke and the rear trigger/left barrel had the more open choke for the incomer.
I know this contradicts your earlier post of how Skeet was originally shot, but it's the only explanation that makes any sense to me.





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[Bobby Cash]

https://i.imgur.com/0jm5mX9.jpg

I measured the bores using a Galazan gauge.
Cylinder left / Modified right.
I'll get a proper decimal measurement on it next week when it's out of California Gun Jail .

[Bill Murphy]

One, Parker did not have skeet 1 and skeet 2. Winchester had skeet 1 and skeet 2 and they didn't care which one was shot first and at what bird. In skeet shooting, only doubles are shot outgoer first. In singles, the incomer was shot first on stations 5, 6, and 7. If a single trigger gun was used, the shooter would have to work the selector or shoot one barrel at a time. At some point, they are so confused that they would miss or get caught with an empty chamber. The reality is that high average skeet shooters didn't care which barrel they were shooting. They could hit the bird with either barrel. "Selector shooters" in early skeet are like sporting clays shooters today who change their chokes at every station. They are not very good shots. By the way, skeet 1 is not the tighter barrel, it is the more open barrel. Dean, in early skeet, the outgoer was the longer bird, and would be shot with the more choked barrel, skeet 2 in a Winchester or skeet out in a Parker. In today's skeet world, both birds are shot at the same range if the shooter is competent.

[Dean Romig]

Those interested in Parker Skeet guns and Skeet chokes and their orientation to left or right barrels should read pages 410, 411 and 412 in “The Parker Story.”






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[Bobby Cash]

Windy and smokey here in SoCal.
Our club is in the Angeles National Forest about 20 miles north of the big fire here in California.
Not a perfect day for a .410, but glad to be out with a new gun.
Both bores measured .411 and are slightky jug choked. .005 left / .015 right , IC / IMod.
Got in 2 rounds of Skeet, a 20 and a 22. Lets call it a good start.

https://i.imgur.com/AOy2M0L.jpg

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[charlie cleveland]

good even patterns....charlie

[Dean Romig]

Excellent tight patterns. That guns a killer out to 35 yards!





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