Help wit id

[mikael_kjaer]

Hi Evryone

I have just purchased a Parker cal. 20, serial number: 175845 at a lokal fleemarked. On the barrel is ingraved "Parker Bros. Makers Meriden Titanic Steel".

I looked up the serial number it said 1917. The gun i complte, but used. There is no ware in the mainbolt. There is no dents in barrel. There is no color left on the barrel, but it is in good shape, no corrosion.

I need help to find a realistic value to the gun.

I'm from Denmark, so i hope you understand my writing.

Look forward to hear from the forum.

Bestv regards Mikael_kjaer from Denmark

[Mark Landskov]

Welcome aboard, Mikael! It sounds like you have a nice Parker. The 20 gauge guns are very desirable, both from a collecting standpoint and as fine upland game guns. If you provide photos, many of the forum members can provide information based on years of collecting and studying Parkers. Cheers!

[mikael_kjaer]

Hi Mark

Thanks for the reply. I wil post pictures as soon as possible.
I have looked in europe for info, but witn no luck. Then i ended at this fantastic site, I'm affreid that i have to spent a lot of time here.

[Dave Suponski]

Welcome! Can't wait to see some photo's I would love to know how some of these guns got all the way to Denmark!

[mikael_kjaer]

Thanks for the reply.

I would also love to know the history behind the gun.

I'm trying to find back to some of tho owners before me.

I'm also new to the kind of use of the internet, i have tryed ti upload a picture, hopes i works, if it does mor pictures follows to morrow.

Best reards Mikel

[Dave Suponski]

Mikael, Sorry to say that your gun 175845 is not in the "Serialization Book" But if you go to our home page and follow the links you can order a research letter on the gun. This may help with some of the history of the gun as there are surviving records on your gun.

[calvin humburg]

wow more pictures looks like a gooden

[Frank Cronin]

Mikeal, Welkommen!

Be certain that you order a PGCA research letter for your newly acquired Parker as Dave recommended. It can answer some of your questions that inquired about and may say how it came to Denmark. It looks like a nice PARKER and you did well from that local flea-market.

Regards,

Frank

[mikael_kjaer]

Thanks for all the replys :)


Her are some photos. The one with year and date, is made of silver i think. I cant read the letters, perhaps it's the first owner's initials.

I have tryed to find the history behind the gun i denmark, but whit no luck.

If anyone wish photo's from certain angles, let me know.

Best regard Mikael

[mikael_kjaer]

Hi everyone

Is it possible to sendt and pay for the reserachletter by mail and bank transfer?

Best regards Mikael

[Francis Morin]

Nar du er i Danmark er du fra? Vi har en staerk Dansk, samfund omkring 19 km NW fra hvor jeg bor, en skulptur fra Marshall Frederiks pa byens torv. Jeg taler nogle tyske, men jag forsoger at laere Dansk fra en fruend.:bigbye:

[Harry Collins]

Mikael,

Your DH 20 gauge Parker is very desirable. I just looked a Jack Paglisi's web page and he has one that may be in better condition than yours and he is asking $8,750.00. I don't have my ear to the ground on Parker prices as others here, however I would think your gun is in the $6,000.00 range. A very nice find. I hope you shoot it as these little Parkers kill like magic wands.

Kindest, Harry

[mikael_kjaer]

hello Fransis

det var en overraskelse at få et svar på dansk. Jeg bor i jylland i danmark. hvor bor du?

Venlig hilsen Mikael

[mikael_kjaer]

Hi Harry

I have not tryed the gun yet, but i'll will on my next hunt. I'am looking forward to try.
If the guy who sold me the gun only knew, what i learned the last cupel of days, poor guy.:rotf:
I think whit that story the gun is one i'll keep and take very care of.

Kind regard Mikael

[Francis Morin]

hello Fransis

det var en overraskelse at få et svar på dansk. Jeg bor i jylland i danmark. hvor bor du?

Venlig hilsen Mikael- translated aproximately for others my friend- I am glad you were surprised (pleasantly) that a member of the PGCA might have a smattering of Danish. I live just outside of Greenville in the Midwest, a town of about 7500 pop. very rural, and since 1965 or so, have celebrated the Danish heritage every summer with a three day festival. The beer tent is named Tivoli Garden, and from the Hans Christian Anderson story The Swan, there is indeed a Marshall Fredericks statue of that most graceful bird in the town square. Abelskivers are a big item also.

In another town in the State of Nebraska, there is almost sister town, rural of course, with a very high Danish population, and they also have an annual Danish Festival- in past years we have had a mayor exchange with them at festival time. I am a retired welder with machine shop experience as well, have used the great Vise-Grips locking pliers for all my life. A Danish blacksmith/welder from that area in Nebraska invented them in about 1927-- Hans Petersen.

So welcome to the PGCA and you have found a very fine Parker to start with indeed. They are built like a Swiss watch and shoot like few other shotguns seem to. As far as the language goes, I believe it is a mark of respect to learn as best as one can, another language or even two. I attended a "schutzenfest" this past summer, made friends with some folks originally from Dresden Germany-they lived in Milwaukee, Wisconsin a great city with a high percentage of people with German ancestry- It gave me a chance to brush up on "mein Alte Schul Deutch"-

I try to learn as much about the people and cultures from as many European Countries as I can. You express yourself very well in English, and I thank you for your reply. Francis

[Russ Jackson]

Mikael ,That is the gun I have been searching for ,for years ,NO WONDER ,I couldn't find it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its been laying on a flea market sale table in Denmark ,Geesh ,:banghead: ,All kidding aside ,it appears you have found a very nice and very desirable gun ,by the looks of things ,it doesn't appear at first glance to have been tampered with ,most would rather own a gun such as this than an over done restoration ! Congratulations ,and Welcome to The Club ! Russ :bigbye:

[Larry Frey]

Hi everyone

Is it possible to sendt and pay for the reserachletter by mail and bank transfer?

Best regards Mikael

Welcome Mikael,
It appears you did very well at that flee market. Your gun is a very desirerable Parker and appears to be in good condition. If you do decide to purchase a PGCA letter you might want to consider joining the PGCA first. Members get a reduced cost for their letters as well as other benefits and your membership would only cost you $20.00. You would also have the honor of becoming our first member from Denmark.:bigbye:

[mikael_kjaer]

Hi Larry

I am still surprised, i have spendt the last days on the net to find out more about Parker. There is nothing about parker on web sites from europe! I have talked with the guy who sold me the gun and he has absolutly no idea to how the gun ended in Denmark.

I see no way, but join PGCA, and get the resarch letter. All this conversation have made me curious to get the hole story about my gun:)

Best regard Mikael

[Francis Morin]

Mikeal- one of the earliest books about the history of the Parker shotguns was written about 1960 by Peter Johnson. In the half-century since, thanks in great part to the dedication and effort of many PGCA members, much more detail and information that can be verified has surfaced.

Going back to Mr. Johnson's book, I recall he mentioned that of the major European countries, France seemed to have more Parker owners that others. This may well make sense, as England, Spain, Germany, Austria, Sweden and Italy all have been very involved in manufacturing high quality sporting shotguns and rifles. France, a few known names- Darne and Georges Granger, and if I omitted any others, my error.

My "Blue Sky' guess is- as I am serious student of WW11 in Europe and the aftermath, and my favorite General from that time frame was George Smith Patton Jr.- who owned several Parkers, including a CHE 20 bore- and had some of his personal firearms available for hunting after Germany surrendered in May 1945- That Parker DH 20 might- and that is a very guarded statement- have belonged to an American Staff Officer from WW11, and somehow was left behind.

Fotos and all numbers you can find on the three main pieces of the shotgun- ie: barrels, forearm and the stock and receiver section- and a PGCA search letter might add some further light on the very valid question- how did this fine American shotgun end up in your Country.

[mikael_kjaer]

Hi Russ

Thanks for your reply. It is the first furum i am member of, so i have not yet familiar whit all the funktions.
But any way, i have to learn. Today i have transfered mony to my new Paypal acount, so i can become a real member of this fine forum.

Best regards Mikael

[Dean Romig]

Welcome Mikael! We are pleased that you have joined us.

[mikael_kjaer]

Hi Fransis

I better tell a little about myself. I am young mann at the age of 43, got my hunting licens in june this year, so i'm very green hunter. I have had the desier to hunt for many years, but never had the time to do it. So this year my oldest son turned the age of 16, that is the age where you can aquire a hunting licens in Denmark. So i joined him to the lessons, and we bouth passed the test.
Whit a frind i joind a hunting consortium, and it is just was expected, should have don it years ago, it is a very nice way to be together with my son. Now i hope, i can convince the rest of my children to take the license when they reach the age. I have 3 boys and a single girl.

I live in Jylland, it is the part of Denmark which is the mainland, near Viborg one of the oldest ciytes i Denmark.

The only connection i have to USA is through some employes from Vestas factory i Brigthton . They have been in Denmark to learn about windmils.

kindest mikael

[Francis Morin]

What hunting will you be doing? Small game, game birds, perhaps ducks? I treasure all the many days I spent hunting and shooting with my grandfather, father, uncles and their many friends. I am 70, have been shooting since I was about 9 years old, and never grow tired of it.

I think maybe the interest in the many windmills that are in both Denmark and the Netherlands, as far as the American Company is concerned, is that here we are trying to harness wind energy to offset both coal and nuclear powered electrical power generating plants. Of course, many farmers and other rural residents used windmills on their farms, but in the late 1930's the Rural Electric Co-Ops started, and by the late 1940's most homes in America had electricity.

You handle the English very well. Most European Countries have required a fluency in English to graduate from High School. Sadly, that is not the case here in America. If you are ever going to visit the Midwest of America, please let me know ahead of your travels, and if at all possible, I would very much like to have your visit our Danish heritage town.

We have hosted many Exchange students in the past- mostly from Germany and also Switzerland. A great way to learn about other cultures. I am glad you are joining the PGCA and will obtain a research letter on your fine 20 bore Parker shotgun. Part of the enjoyment of owning such a fine weapon is learning about its origins and travel before it came into your hands. Best- Francis M.:bigbye:

[mikael_kjaer]

Denmark is small country. we have ( i have tryed to convert our metric system to your system) 300 Acres of fields, very small forrest and a cupple waterholes. It is to small to have it's own stock, but many deers are pasing through. We know that there is does i the area, but i haven't seen them. There is also phesans,ducks wood pigeon and hares. Apart from these animals, there is some intruders, which are allowed to hunt all year, raccoon dog ( it has travlet from USSR over East europe to Denmark) it has no enemy, and is able to adabt anywere. There is also raccoons and mink escaped from farming, i think the raccoons is more likely from escaped pet. But they are all breeding i denmark.

Mikkel, my oldest son are going to Fresno next year. As a part of his school, he he has to spend march months at a hishcool there.
The distances i USA is diffiecult to understand her, if we take from south to north and vest to east, Denmark is about 400 x 500 km. But some day i hope to visit your country.

Kindest Mikael

[George Lander]

WOW MIKAEL: A 20 bore DH Parker the first time out! Welcome to PGCA. When your letter comes you may be in for more surprises. The initials on the stock may correspond to the original owner. Several years ago I acquired a 20 bore Parker DHE in Holt's Auction in London, but so far I have not been able to trace the initials on the stock. Perhaps you will have better luck. I hope so.

Best Regards, George

[Mike McKinney]

Mikael,
We hope you feel welcome in the PGCA and on this forum. It's a good group with LOTS of knowledge.
Welcome, Mike

[mikael_kjaer]

Hi Everyone

Today I recevied my reserach letter. The gun was ordereds by "Lewald and Schlueter Company in Fresno". Acording to Specifications Mark found i sure it is in the same configuration as br delivery. From Marks letter:

DHE hammerless, 20-gauge. It featured Titanic steel barrels with a length of 30 inches. Its stock configuration was a straight grip. The chokes were patterned RH full and LH full. The order specified a 4 3/8 inch grip, full comb, 2 5/8 inch chambers, straight rib, no safety, 4 pounds of trigger pull and 1 inch of pitch. According to Parker Bros. Order Book No. 96, its specifications were: Length of Pull: 14 ¼”, Drop at Comb: 1 ½”, Drop at Heel: 1 7/8”, Weight: 6 pounds and 10 ounces. The price was $90.75 plus $18.75 for ejectors.

Is there anyone who knows the Lewald and Schlueter Company in Fresno?
I have tryed the internet, but so far with no luck. If any body have a hint please let me know.

Proud Parker owner:rotf:

Mikael Kjær

[Dave Suponski]

Mikael, From the description the gun sounds like a target or competition gun.

[Dean Romig]

And it sounds like a VERY desirable and valuable Parker.

[mikael_kjaer]

Hi

It can explain that there is no Safety on it. But the gun has been used a lot. You can see on the stock that it has been used. But there is no wear in the mainbolt, it closes like a safe, much better than my new shotgun.

Mikael

[mikael_kjaer]

I hope i'll be abel to finds its way to Denmark.
I found a Company named "The Schlueter Company" in Fresno it is over 80 years old and produces Dairy products. And as Mark tells the gun was ordered by Lewald and Schlueter Company in Fresno in 1917, Is there a way to find back to old company names in USA and see if they are still exist?

More an more proud Parker owner.

Mikael

[Frank Cronin]

Mikael,

I did a quick Google search and found Lewald and Schlueter Company Fresno, CA. The link is a book reader from Google which talks about a convention of the Pacific Retail Hardware Association February 9, 1901. http://books.google.com/books?id=H6fmAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA5-PA36&lpg=RA5-PA36&dq=Lewald+and+Schlueter+hardware,+Fresno,+CA&source=bl&ots=g1HRezkCre&sig=G15x5lElSAgrnwiOPuzHbgxCnXM&hl=en&ei=GVz1TK7CGIGisAOwttG2Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

I did not read the whole book but this should answer your question that Lewald and Schlueter was a hardware store where your Parker was bought. It is most likely now out of business. Most privately owned hardware stores are a rarity even today. Home Depot and Lowe's pretty much ran them to the ground and they can't compete with the big retailers.

Here is an interesting twist about your Parker. In a previous post in this thread you stated that your son Mikkel is going to Fresno for a student exchange program. I assume it is Fresno, CA the same city your Parker is lettered to have been purchased from!

Since you are coming to the states to visit Fresno, you could go to the local library there and do research on this old hardware store and maybe you will discover more in the library's archives than you could by searching the net.

The odds of you acquiring this fine Parker at a flea market and also your son going to study student exchange in the same city is pretty remarkable!

Congrats and keep us posted if you find anything more.

Regards,

Frank

I hope i'll be abel to finds its way to Denmark.
I found a Company named "The Schlueter Company" in Fresno it is over 80 years old and produces Dairy products. And as Mark tells the gun was ordered by Lewald and Schlueter Company in Fresno in 1917, Is there a way to find back to old company names in USA and see if they are still exist?

More an more proud Parker owner.

Mikael

[mikael_kjaer]

Hi Frank

I am still surprised find such a treassure the way i did, but on the other hand, when i talk with other hunters nobody know what a Parker is and stand for. Everybody knoes what a Parker and Hale is. Many people have tryed to correkt me when i tell the story "You must mean a Parker and Hale" they say. So i think nobody of the those who have had the gun in Denmark have had the knowledge of thr history and value of the gun, including my self. After i fund this webside I could not belive that I was in possession of a gun which is so rare.
And as you writhe about the odds, is is remarkabl. But never the less, it is the story so far.
I'm affraid that the way to find it's history, is to find the conection betwen "Lewald and Schleuters Company" and Europe or Denmark.
I wonder if the gun is ordered by eighter Lewald or Schleuters, to one of them selfs or it's a third person who has ordred the gun through Lewald and Schleuter?

I have tryed to find a way serach in Libraries and company rekords, but have not found anything yet, so if anybody have any information or knowledge about the company let me know.

Best regards

Mikael

[calvin humburg]

What do you hunt over there? ch

[mikael_kjaer]

Hi

Deer, ducks, goose and hare those are common game, there is also different small birds pigeon, snipe and pheasant. There is mor but i cant't translate them, when i try they all are snipes. we have a growing population of Reed deers (in danish Krondyr) they are in our hunting calendar, but some places the hunters ars proteckting them, but thats only whit rifle.
In Denmark you can't hunt every were. You can buy the right to hunt from the owner of the land. If you lucky you will be invited to hunt in state forrest.
Good hunting areas in Denmark is very expencive to rent, some says that hunting is a sport for the rich people.
Still hunting on most sea and beach is free, but there are many areas there are protected.

Best regard

Mikael

[Gary Bodrato]

Mikael, this may amount to nothing. Working on the assumption the initials read correctly are PCH and again assuming the H is one of Denmarks more common names, Four gentlemen born in Denmark named Peter C Hansen resided in Fresno California as listed on the US 1920 census records, All born in the mid to late 1800's in Denmark which would put their ages in the 40's or 50's about right to buy a very top line parker, One apparently had a son Neils also born in Denmark who is listed on the US ARMY enlistment records 1942 living in Fresno. Could Neils have Moved back after WWII ? just a shot in the dark, Good Hunting

[Bill Murphy]

Mikael, Francis made a good observation about General Patton, his Parkers, and the possibility that an Army officer brought the gun to Denmark during World War 2. Actually, Patton's 20 gauge Parker is not a CHE, but a 30" barrel DHE like yours, made about the same time. I will look up Patton's serial number and report back. OK, here goes, Patton's DHE 20 is serial number 167,782, made in 1916. In 1916, Patton served under another Parker owner, General Pershing, on the search for outlaw Pancho Villa in Mexico. Another PGCA member and I test fired Patton's 20 gauge and took pictures for "The Parker Story" at our gun club in Maryland, USA. His Parker is safely in the hands of a skeet shooting buddy of mine, a Patton relative who does not share his surname. You might consider purchasing "The Parker Story", the best and most detailed gun book ever written, in my opinion. Available through the Double Gun Journal for $320, less from private sources.