My duBray-Connected Parker

[Ed Blake]

After reading Steve Cambria’s excellent article in the DGJ I thought I’d post some information about my Grade 3 10 gauge ordered by Mr duBray in 1886 while he was stationed in Walla Walla. I found it at the 2018 Southern at a vendor set up next to the Fox Collectors. I had no idea it was a duBray gun until I received Chucks letter, posted here. What caught my eye was the rib. It isn’t a matted rib like I’m used to seeing on Parkers, it’s something else. I’ve shown this gun to a number of Parker collectors and no one has ever seen this type of file-cut rib on a Parker. The letter confirms this with the notation referencing “chase rib” in the letter. If anyone has seen this type of rib matting I’d like to hear from you. Thanks

[Brian Dudley]

I have seen this gun personally and the rib matting is truly impressive. It is the only example of this style of matting that I have ever seen personally. It is more of a very fine knurling on the whole surface of the rib.
This was a sort of transitional operation that was used to matte ribs before Parker used their typical cut method of matting the ribs.

I am sure not many guns were made with that type of matting on them.

[Ed Blake]

I’ll add that it’s a #4 frame.

[Craig Larter]

Sounds like a duck gun, more pictures please. Thanks Craig

[Randy G Roberts]

Never seen anything like that before, it sure looks real nice in the picture. To my eye it even matches the Damascus pattern somewhat. Congrats on a great find.

[Brian Dudley]

75051

Here is a photo i had of it.

This is the makers mark. The matting is so fine you can hardly see it.

[Brian Dudley]

75053

This view across the side of the rib shows the fine marking.

[CraigThompson]

You posted somewhere a few weeks ago about this gun and when I talked to Patton after that he told me it was very nice !

He didn't quite do it justice :cool:

[Bill Murphy]

Beautiful rib. First one I've seen.

[Drew Hause]

I understand we are discussing Ed's spectacular rib, but FWIW Brian's image show that the top rib extension is an untwisted laminate, while the rib is (likely) the same 3 iron D3 crolle as the barrel tubes; ground at a different angle.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/21182597/414272550.jpg

[Ed Blake]

I’ll put more pictures up. Breck Gorman refinished the barrels and removed all the little surface nicks

[Drew Hause]

Ed: please post a full size close up of the side of the rib and of the side of the rib extension. I'd like to add images here http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/listing/user/revdocdrew

[Ed Blake]

For Doc Drew. The gun was used but not abused.

[Drew Hause]

Thank you Ed. How about a shot of the side of the rib extension showing the laminate.

[Ed Blake]

How about this?

[Ed Blake]

This?

[Ed Blake]

Wish that J was a W.

[Craig Larter]

Very nice thanks for posting those great pics.

[Ed Blake]

TTT for Bill Murphy

[Bruce Day]

Arthur DuBray lived here at the Sutter Hotel, Sutter and Geary Streets, SF Cal . There is a first floor coffee shop where , years later , Sam Spade met the widow Archer in investigation of a certain mysterious black bird .

[Arthur Shaffer]

I have seen a rib like this only once, but not on a Parker. A local collector dealer asked me to look at it and give them my impression since they had never seen one before. It was a medium grade English double (well known maker but I just can't remember). It was in .500 BPE, hammerless, late 1800's. The rib looked just like that. The reason for the question was that the entire surface of the barrels had the same finish. It ppeared to be a rolled knurling, such as you would do on a lathe with a knurling tool. It was very obviously knurling and not a cut pattern. The thing that made that amazing was that the pattern was applied lengthwise of the barrels and blended radially so that there was no appearance of bounary lines between the bands. It appeared to be a perfect knurling job of a tapered cylinder. To this day I have no idea how it could have been done.

The term chased used in the letter would now mean some sort of recutting, deepening or cleaning up operation. No idea as to the meaning in those days. That could be a definition which would help reveal the technique.

[Randy Davis]

Capt. A. W. (Gaucho) Du Bray...

Trap3

[Garry L Gordon]

Any idea how old he was in that photo?

[Randy Davis]

Don`t know a lot about Du Bray, not sure... I`m thinking the photo is from the 1890`s

[Drew Hause]

Illustration in May 2, 1896 Sporting Life and he appears slightly older

https://photos.smugmug.com/US-Makers/Parker/i-3bZkzCv/0/df042bf9/L/May%202%2C%201896%20Sporting%20Life-L.png (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/US-Makers/Parker/i-3bZkzCv/A)

[Randy G Roberts]

Any idea how old he was in that photo?

Garry I am pretty sure that photo is from a Sportsmens Review, specifically 01/02/1899. Gaucho was born in 1848 but not knowing when the pic was taken we will never know for sure how old he was then I suppose but I would think around 51 or a little less, certainly no older.

This pic was published in 1906, again not sure when it was taken. Looks like the Ole Boy could have been a rather intimidating Gent should he have chosen to be.

[Bill Murphy]

Maybe someone would post the picture of DuBray that is included in Ed Muderlak's book. That may be a later (white hair) shot of Gaucho. I own the original studio photo, but I don't know the date. Ed never gave me credit, but I was used to that from Ed.

[Garry L Gordon]

Garry I am pretty sure that photo is from a Sportsmens Review, specifically 01/02/1899. Gaucho was born in 1848 but not knowing when the pic was taken we will never know for sure how old he was then I suppose but I would think around 51 or a little less, certainly no older.

This pic was published in 1906, again not sure when it was taken. Looks like the Ole Boy could have been a rather intimidating Gent should he have chosen to be.

Thanks, Randy!

[Randy Davis]

Garry I am pretty sure that photo is from a Sportsmens Review, specifically 01/02/1899. Gaucho was born in 1848 but not knowing when the pic was taken we will never know for sure how old he was then I suppose but I would think around 51 or a little less, certainly no older.

This pic was published in 1906, again not sure when it was taken. Looks like the Ole Boy could have been a rather intimidating Gent should he have chosen to be.

Look as though he sure aged in 7 years...

RD

[Randy G Roberts]

Look as though he sure aged in 7 years...

RD

7 years elapsed between the 2 pictures appearing in SR. The elapsed time between the 2 pictures being taken is anyone's guess. Hopefully the Ole Boy didn't age that much in 7 years but....

[Bill Murphy]

My studio photo of a grey haired Dubray is on page 274 of Ed's book "Parker Guns, Shooting Flying, and the American Experience. Ed credited Dick Baldwin, who gave me the photo years before Ed thought of writing that book. He credited Dick because I told him that Dick gave it to me. When Ed was writing the book, at his request, I took a car full of Parkers and Parker literature to his son's house across the river from my home. We spent the afternoon taking pictures the result of which was two of my guns and the Dubray photo appearing in the book. Still not my favorite curmudgeon, but at least he was one. When he was taking orders for the book, I asked if there was a surcharge for "No Signature". It went right over his head. He had no idea of the insult of picturing two guns in his book when I spent most of a day posing dozens of them for him. Good old Ed.

[Larry Stauch]

Now! Back to the gun;

That is a prize for sure; Arthur DuBray's 4 frame, 10 gauge, 32" Damascus barreled, Quality D, top action hammer gun with special matting on the top rib, weighing in at a man size 10 pounds 8 ounces, having 3-1/2" of drop at the heel.
What a find! And what a great story. Congratulations on that one. :bowdown:

[Bill Murphy]

Yup, we would like to hear more about the gun. Unfortunately, this thread went dead for three years and resurfaced as a discussion about DuBray. That's not a bad thing, after three years. OK, back to the gun.

[Ed Blake]

The gun recently found a new owner on this board, and maybe he’ll post any subsequent research on it if he finds anything of note. When I found the gun I was sure it was meant to be used as a Fowler, and maybe it was. However, I believe it was purchased as a live pigeon gun. My rationale is information I got from Cyril Adams’ “Live Pigeon Trapshooting” book published in 2017. Chapter 3 discusses pigeon guns and on page 130 he describes the “normal” American pigeon gun as existent in 1880: 10 bore at 9-10.5 lbs, 13.75” to 14.5” LOP; 3-3.5” drop. This pretty much describes this gun to a “T”. The special treatment of the rib convinces me even more that this was made as a money gun. Was it a Fowler? Probably but I’m convinced it was also used to shoot box birds. I’m especially curious about why this rib treatment was so uncommon when it works so well to cut glare. Evidence as a pigeon gun might be entirely circumstantial but that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

[Garry L Gordon]

The gun recently found a new owner on this board, and maybe he’ll post any subsequent research on it if he finds anything of note. When I found the gun I was sure it was meant to be used as a Fowler, and maybe it was. However, I believe it was purchased as a live pigeon gun. My rationale is information I got from Cyril Adams’ “Live Pigeon Trapshooting” book published in 2017. Chapter 3 discusses pigeon guns and on page 130 he describes the “normal” American pigeon gun as existent in 1880: 10 bore at 9-10.5 lbs, 13.75” to 14.5” LOP; 3-3.5” drop. This pretty much describes this gun to a “T”. The special treatment of the rib convinces me even more that this was made as a money gun. Was it a Fowler? Probably but I’m convinced it was also used to shoot box birds. I’m especially curious about why this rib treatment was so uncommon when it works so well to cut glare. Evidence as a pigeon gun might be entirely circumstantial but that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

Ed, I think your "story" is a pretty good one, and I'd stick to it, too, until some other facts come to light.

[JAMES HALL]

Ed look close at the picture Randy Roberts posted

[Randy G Roberts]

Ed look close at the picture Randy Roberts posted

Makes you wonder doesn't it.

[Ed Blake]

I was thinking the same thing. The gun looks big enough.

[Craig Budgeon]

I don't think you will find another Parker that duplicates the gun under discussion. The knurling itself is of such poor quality I cannot believe Parker Bros. would ever try to duplicate it again. The knurling is overrun, veers in either direction, is not strait, stops between lines, and is very faint in the center of the rib. I agree with ArtS that the work was done on a lathe using a narrowed diagonal knurl. A delivery made in less than 30 days or possibly an outside vendor may have contributed to the poor quality. I also noticed Parker did not charge for the chased rib. With that said, I can find room in my safe for that gun.

[Bill Murphy]

Lefever offered a similar chased rib that was very well done with no irregularities.