Research Letters

[Mark Ray]

Ok, inquiring minds want to know. Well at least MY inquiring mind.

I was wondering if we had an idea of how many, total, research letters have been issued for Parker Guns, and about how many has Chuck had to produce in recent years in a yearly basis, AND whether or not that number is increasing/decreasing?

[Dean Romig]

Well let's see.... there were 242,000 plus Parker shotguns made and multiple research letters have been requested on some of those serial numbers. Not saying research letters have been written on all of the Parkers ever made but since the PGCA has had the Parker Factory records Ron Kirby, Mark Conrad and Chuck Bishop have been writing letters.

Chuck, don't go to bed yet - you've got some tabulatin' to do. :bigbye:




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[Mark Ray]

I just think it would be interesting stats.....i would think less duplicate letters than more, as most folks use their letters as sales support.

[Jay Oliver]

An interesting side note somewhat related to this topic, I had just bought Parker Serial# 1310, which shows up as having a research letter available. I almost didn't even check as the serialization book starts at # 1444.

There has to be a lot of neat finds/surprises still out there...

[Chuck Bishop]

Easy question to answer. There are a total of 6,064 letters in our archived file. The archiving started in April 2004. I'm not sure if Ron Kirby did letters from the beginning until 1/1/05 but after 1/1/05, Mark Conrad did the letters until I took over 5/10/12. Mark did approximately 3082 letters and I've done approximately 2982. Finding a letter previously done doesn't happen very often, probably <5%. I average +- 30 letters per month. This month will be about 40 letters.

Jay, your gun is listed because of a return for work. No original info on such an early gun exists.

[Dean Romig]

Chuck - Many Thanks for the work you do on research letters.





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[Mark Ray]

Exactly what i was looking for thanks!! So only around 2%! Lots of mysteries still out there!

[Dean Romig]

Lots of undiscovered Parkers out there.
We need new younger recruits to continue our work.





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[Jay Oliver]

Thanks Chuck, I thought it was interesting that such an early gun would have a letter, it makes sense that it was entered into the books later on for a repair. And thanks for all your work on the research letters as well!

[Josh Loewensteiner]

In some respects, I see this as an indication of how many "collectible" Parkers are out there. Ordering letters on mundane guns doesn't happen often, I would bet, but it goes to show you that maybe the more interesting or top 3-5% of Parkers are the ones that we are all looking for.

[Dean Romig]

Or the ones that best fit our shooting or hunting requirements.





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[Randy G Roberts]

In some respects, I see this as an indication of how many "collectible" Parkers are out there. Ordering letters on mundane guns doesn't happen often, I would bet, but it goes to show you that maybe the more interesting or top 3-5% of Parkers are the ones that we are all looking for.

Interesting view/comment to me Josh, "Ordering letters on mundane guns doesn't happen often, I would bet". When available I request a letter on all of my Parkers, just seems like the thing to do for me anyway. I would not dare ask Chuck or anyone else to take the time to do the math but it would be interesting to see how the letters shake out by grade. With so much disparity in the numbers of grades from one to the next I am uncertain as to what this information might bear out but it could be interesting. Anyone else care to comment on how you qualify requesting or not requesting a letter on your Parkers. What's the determining factor or factors for you ?

[Mark Ray]

Interesting view/comment to me Josh, "Ordering letters on mundane guns doesn't happen often, I would bet". When available I request a letter on all of my Parkers, just seems like the thing to do for me anyway. I would not dare ask Chuck or anyone else to take the time to do the math but it would be interesting to see how the letters shake out by grade. With so much disparity in the numbers of grades from one to the next I am uncertain as to what this information might bear out but it could be interesting. Anyone else care to comment on how you qualify requesting or not requesting a letter on your Parkers. What's the determining factor or factors for you ?

I order letters on all but Trojans.

[Dean Romig]

I have ordered letters on most all of mine as well as a few letters on Parkers that don’t belong to me... Burt Spiller’s VH 20 for example.





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[Daryl Corona]

I order letters mostly to see if there is any provenance linked to the gun. At this stage of the game I can pretty well tell if the gun is "right". Basically, if I can shoot the gun well it is "right":rolleyes: for me.

[Mills Morrison]

Provenance is the main reason I order letters. Often, you get an actual owner when there is a record of a gun being returned to the factory for repair.

[Russell E. Cleary]

For me, my guns are elevated to being less mundane when I order a letter on, say a VH, and find out what were original features and from what retailer it was vended.

I have a total of six Parkers, and all have letters except for the Trojan (for which letters are unavailable).

I also ordered a letter on a gun I do not own and was not for sale, out of curiosity and for research.

It is well-worth being reminded of the time and energy expended by PGCA volunteers to make this information available to us. It is a story in itself, and as this thread indicates, a continuing one.

[Bill Murphy]

Stumpstalker, letters on Trojans are available. Who told you they were not available. I order letters on every Parker gun I own, in case something interesting comes up. For forty dollars, I have been surprised many times.

[Randy G Roberts]

I assumed that provenance would be a major player in terms of deciding when to request a research letter on your Parker. Personally I never placed a lot of emphasis on provenence until recently when I learned something for myself. Provenance is not important in a gun at all, until you have one that has it.

[Mills Morrison]

One research letter led to a trip to Currituck sound for me and I got off easy. Ask John Davis about that

[Phillip Carr]

I order letters for all my guns, just nice to know just a Little history if at all possible.

[Randy G Roberts]

One research letter led to a trip to Currituck sound for me and I got off easy. Ask John Davis about that

I will ask John about that. He is currently helping me with some research on a gun owner in question. More accurately stated he is doing the research and I am very grateful. Hopefully it's worthy of a PPA.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

I too order letters on all my guns sometimes they are not available, but still try, these guns have a history and some times a letter will be a map that will lead to interesting history of the gun. I have one gun that was sent back to the factory 14 times, Gary

[Mills Morrison]

I keep all of mine in a PGCA binder. It really adds to the enjoyment and it is almost like looking at your guns without taking them out of the safe. For guns not in surviving records, I fill out a Research letter form with info on that gun.

[Russell E. Cleary]

Stumpstalker, letters on Trojans are available. Who told you they were not available. I order letters on every Parker gun I own, in case something interesting comes up. For forty dollars, I have been surprised many times.

Bill:

Thanks for providing me with the fact that Research Letters are also available on Trojans. For some unknown reason I thought a line had been drawn at Trojans.

However, as for the one I have, the feature on the PGCA website that announces if records are available on a particular gun says that none are of the one I have. It is a 30-inch-barreled; 2-frame; 12-gauge Trojan; serial number 230608, thus a 1929-year gun.

My father bought it from a local farmer who kept it in his truck for pest-control. His son-in-law came back from being stationed in the U. S. Army in Germany and provided him with a more modern Sauer gun.

A few months later the farmer saw my father again, and with a kind of melancholy, beseeching air said he didn't like "that new gun". My father just said, "sorry".

[Dean Romig]

Russ, you're not likely to get a research letter on a 230XXX gun because that book, among many others, is missing and there are no available records in that span.

See this list of missing books.

. http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=26424&highlight=missing+stock+books





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[Bill Murphy]

The long and the short of letters is that after 1919, order books were discontinued with one exception, order book number 101, which included very few ordered guns. Trojans in the early, pre 185,000 or such, are available for letters that may identify original owners or those who ordered such guns for retail concerns. Always give it a shot. Also, check at the Griffin and Howe website for further provenance.

[John G Gardner]

Letters are wonderful. They help any gun of the era come alive.

Sometimes you get the chance to hold/shoot a piece of real history that you've now participated in.

I think all members should be encouraged to order a letter - and especially if it is a so-so gun by grade or condition.

Randy had it right when he said providence doesn't count unless you have it.

Letter's have added and subtracted literally thousands to the value of my collection.

One unusual G grade, not spectacular in itself, ended up being a presentation piece made to an early NWMP officer who escorted Sitting Bull across the US/Canada border, arrested/released the real Sundance Kid, and later was in charge during the Yukon Gold Rush. He passed it to his son who took it with him to Britain during WWI where he had new Westley Richard's barrels mounted - surviving the war while winning the Victoria Cross in the process

Another turned out was one of du Bray's personal guns from his estate when he passed - (verified by John Davis' copy of original list).

Conversely a letter can also potentially save you thousands on a higher end purchase just like a house or boat inspection. I acquired a C grade paying top dollar, and was happy to do so, because I'd been informed it was associated to a famous ball player when my grandfather played. The player was indeed an avid trap shooter but the letter made the date he acquired it questionable because of his relative youth at the time. Plus side it was an 1898 Exposition gun - but that's not why I bought it.

With ALL Parkers we get to shoot both art and history and, sometimes, we get to know we're holding the same gun used by iconic individuals. Letters are a key to that time machine.

[Randy G Roberts]

Looks like you recently joined the PGCA Mr. Gardner. Welcome aboard and well said. Sounds like you have a couple of special guns there.

[Mills Morrison]

Second Randy on that. Also, we love pictures here

[John G Gardner]

Thank you Gentlemen,
It's John good people, not Mr, and I just renewed after a sabbatical due to illness so looking forward to reconnecting. Will begin posting soon - after I order another letter online! ;-)

[Randy G Roberts]

Well then "John" glad to have you back. Getting ready to order another one myself.