Two new Parker's

[Wendy Bonertz]

Brought home 2 new Parker's from an auction last weekend.
A 10 guage lifter and a 12 guage V grade.

Need a little help to identify the 10 gauge lifter. I know that it was made in 1880 Serial number 18470. From what I read on the site here is that after 1875 the guns should have a grade and pre 1875 the guns are given a dollar value.... so this gun should have a grade but I didn't find any examples in the pictures provided that I could match it to.
The stock has been redone at some point, but all serial numbers match.
Here are some pictures:
(the shiny oval on the one side plate is a registration sticker not sure why the powers that be deemed that necessary when the gun has a serial number!)

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy225/RWB09/Parker%2010%20ga%20lifter/IMG_3672.jpg

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy225/RWB09/Parker%2010%20ga%20lifter/IMG_3662.jpg

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy225/RWB09/Parker%2010%20ga%20lifter/IMG_3661.jpg

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy225/RWB09/Parker%2010%20ga%20lifter/IMG_3650.jpg

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy225/RWB09/Parker%2010%20ga%20lifter/IMG_3653.jpg

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy225/RWB09/Parker%2010%20ga%20lifter/IMG_3671.jpg

The other is a redone V grade 12 guage from 1906. Serial number 136705. Serial numbers match except for the trigger guard, so obviously it has been replaced. Would like some opinions on the quality of the refinishing.
Here are a few pictures:

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy225/RWB09/V%20grade%20parker/IMG_3695.jpg

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy225/RWB09/V%20grade%20parker/IMG_3694.jpg

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy225/RWB09/V%20grade%20parker/IMG_3688.jpg

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy225/RWB09/V%20grade%20parker/IMG_3684.jpg

http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy225/RWB09/V%20grade%20parker/IMG_3681.jpg

Sorry, I should have had my photographer (hubby) take some closeups of the case colors...

I am so glad this forum is here, you are all so helpful to newbies like me!

Wendy

[Robert Delk]

The V grade appears to have been colored by use of a torch,although it is hard to be sure.

[Dean Romig]

I agree with Robert.

18470 is a grade 0 gun and was originally made with 32" barrels.

What did you end up paying for them?

[Steve Huffman]

Not sure but looks like the hammers dont match

[Dean Romig]

You're right Steve.

[Mark Ouellette]

Wendy,

I thanked you for posting photos and serial numbers when asking for an evaluation!

You have two nice Parkers. While they may not be museum quality they are fine examples of Parker Brother's enduring quality. Assuming that both guns are tight on face and have clean bores that have NOT been reamed to thin (obviously the barrel thickness's should be checked) they should great shooters that can be passed to the next generation.

I've taken doubles on ducks and geese this season with DH and EH ten bores. My good old (actually pretty new) Benelli M2 with heavy Shot would have slayed waterfowl easier but hunting with a 120 year gun just seems like a better thing to do!

Best of luck to you with your two new Parkers!!!

Respectfully,
Mark

[calvin humburg]

yes a stright grip hammer gun what more could you want. Well maybe a stright grip d grade with a skeleton buttplate, but one can never be satisfied.:) ch

[Bill Murphy]

You should get some good advice on collecting Parkers before you continue. The hammer gun shows serious defects in fit of wood to metal, which indicates amateur disassembly and "fooling around" which brings value down to zero in short order. Poor fit of metal to metal is another indication of bad gunsmithing that brings value to zero quickly. The hammerless gun shows very bad gunsmithing and refinish and such work has brought that gun to zero collector value. Zero collector value translates into zero shooter value because shooters don't buy Parkers just to shoot, they want to be proud of them when they show them off. More and more people these days know about good Parkers and bad guns are recognized by more shooters and casual collectors every day. Be careful.

[Paul Harm]

Bill, I think you're being a bit hard in you're values. I don't buy to collect [ can't afford it ] - I buy to shoot. All your points are what buyers look at - but I wouldn't say zero for value. Good, sound " beaters " are worth from 600 to a 1000. JMHI - Paul

[Bruce Day]

Over the last 30 years, there have been four books written about Parkers and what to look for in a collectible and shootable gun.
The PGCA has been in existance for 15 years and we have a great publication, The Parker Pages. We have this web site showing photos of good Parkers and we have helpful forum members who freely give advice.
PGCA members display good guns at most major gun shows.
The PGCA has had major displays at each of the last five Pheasants Forever Pheasant Fest gatherings, attended by 20,000 to 30,000 each time.
There have been dozens of articles about Parkers and what to look for in The Double Gun Journal, Shooting Sportsman, NRA Hunter, Pheasants Forever magazine, Quail Unlimited magazine, and probably others.

Any other ideas about what else we can do to get the word out?

[Wendy Bonertz]

Bill, I think you're being a bit hard in you're values. I don't buy to collect [ can't afford it ] - I buy to shoot. All your points are what buyers look at - but I wouldn't say zero for value. Good, sound " beaters " are worth from 600 to a 1000. JMHI - Paul

Thanks Paul, I was beginning to think I didn't belong in this elite group. I can't afford "Good" Parkers..... I knew these were not pristine guns. Just guns I could afford and possibly shoot. I paid less than the amount you quoted for these guns. I wish I could afford to pay $48,000 for a nice Parker .410 but that is not going to happen. :crying:

[Bruce Day]

I can't/won't pay $48,000 for a Parker 410 either, but there are usually some nice Parker V grade 12ga's available for anywhere from $2,000 to 3,000 and some have gotten fortunate and picked decent low grade guns up for less.

What could possibly be elite about this group? We welcome anybody with an interest in collecting, shooting and preserving fine Parkers.

There are many of us who shoot the old low grade, low condition guns that can be obtained inexpensively. Here's a couple, a 12 and a 16.

[Mark Ouellette]

All,

Sometimes when we write we do not always express ourselves as we intended. Even professional writers at times suffer from this.

Wendy, you bought a couple good Parkers. We do not know if you got a great deal or paid a little too much. Frankly, the deal is done and should not matter. Believe it or not, our more experianced members just want to help new collectors like you "from getting taken advantage of". Please do not take offense.

So... you got a good deal on what this duck hunter calls "shooters". That's great! Please enjoy your new to you Parkers and continue to participate in this forum. As Bruce suggested, join the PGCA and get involved. The PARKER PAGES provides very informative information.

PS: Even though I have a few nice Parkers, I also have a few that I don't mind taking in a scull or layout boat. Those old "shooters" really earn their keep! Please check out Kurt D's recent thread in Hunting with Parkers/Saginaw Bay. You'll see a photo of me with a less than perfect EH 10 bore. I would not want to take my prize DH 10 in a layout boat!

Respectfully,
Mark

[Wendy Bonertz]

I know this is not an elite group, I was being sarcastic with that comment... and I am already a member (at least I should be, not sure why it only says forum member.....I sent my fees quite a while ago).

I asked for opinions on the guns and I got opinions. I have not taken offense to anyone's comments. I appreciate all the help and advice I receive on the forum. I will admit that I have ALOT to learn about collecting Parker's. I started at absolute zero knowledge a few months ago when I laid eyes on my first one.

I truly wish I could afford better Parker's and maybe someday I will actually be able to find one that I can afford!

[Ed Blake]

Wendy - Before you shoot either of those guns have them checked by a qualified gunsmith, esp. bore condition and action lock-up. It's better to have one gun in good shootable condition than a handful of questionable beaters any day. Good #2 frame GH damascus guns and V-grades can be had for $1,500 and less all day long. Take your pick.

[Bruce Day]

That GHE damascus 12ga was a $1500 gun then I put $300 into refinishing the barrels. That's my standard duck gun and heavy load pheasant gun.

Further, I am a proud, card carrying member of the Minnesota Chapter of Bottom Feeders Anonymous.

[Mark Ouellette]

Bruce,

Are 4's the biggest Heavy Shot that you've shot though your GHE? Would you have shoot HS 2's though it?

Thanks,
Mark

[Robert Delk]

I'm always of the mind that it is a great idea to take any collectible artifact that is not of "collector" quality and bring it back to some semblance of it's former self. When this is a Parker I would say that if the barrels are safe than go ahead and put some money into it if you like it and don't worry about getting your money back. The restoration work puts money back into the economy and a good gun is made better. I guarantee someone will thank all the people who had "bad" restorations made right sometime down the road.

[Mark Landskov]

Wendy, I bought an 1877 Lifter that was considered a wallhanger because the bores looked like sewer pipes! Brad Bachelder smoothed up the bores the best he could, while maintaining thickness, and refinished the exterior. Twist barrels are a sight to behold when restored! I doubt that I could ever recoup my expenditures, but I really love the gun, and, it is a great shooter. Cheers!

[Bill Murphy]

I will stand by my advice to "be careful". I will give a further piece of advice, and that is to buy only guns that can be restored. Wendy's guns have been in the hands of persons who have destroyed them in attempts to "restore" or "repair". Bruce has attempted to give Wendy some places she can go to get information on what guns to buy. He has been diplomatic in not telling her to avoid guns like she has already bought. I will tell her to avoid such guns. Well worn or rusty guns that have not been in the hands of a bad gunsmith are a much better deal.

[Dean Romig]

I am already a member (at least I should be, not sure why it only says forum member.....I sent my fees quite a while ago).


Hi Wendy -

John Dunkle is... shall we say, "temporarily indisposed" but I'll shoot him a PM and he'll look into the matter of your membership as soon as he becomes available in just a few days.

In the meantime, let me say how delighted we are to have you as a new PGCA member. We look forward to hearing more about your Parkers as you learn more about them and decide how far you intend to go in making them your favorite shooters.

Dean

[Robert Delk]

I think "destroyed" might be too harsh a word. I guess it depends on who ends up with them and how much money they are willing to spend.Since their collectibility is gone they can still be turned into presentable shooters by someone other than a "name" restoration gunsmith. I have done some pretty fair "patch jobs" on botched stocks myself. I am not a gunsmith but I am familiar with matching wood and repair of antique furniture. I have "browned" the metal of some over cleaned guns back to decent looking too.None of this applies to anything high grade/historically signifigant though.

[Harry Collins]

Wendy,

The majority of my 17 Parkers are "ten footers". They look good from ten feet. The screws have been buggered, stocks broken and repaired or replaced, mismatched serial numbers (a composit of two wrecks), and some family guns that I spent too much money on having put back into serviceable condition, yet I shoot them all and they bring me much joy. Please don't be discouraged.

Are you a hunter/shooter? If so, a nice little 0 framed 16 or 20 gauge will feel wonderful on the shoulder and a delight to shoot. I have a 28 gauge on an 0 frame that is quickly becoming my old age gun.

Kindest, Harry

[Robert Delk]

I think of non-collectors grade guns like some people think of old cars. You can remanufacture,refinish and replace until you have something that makes you feel good and gets looks when you're using it. You will probably never get your money back out of it but it makes you feel good having brought something back to life and future owners will thank you for it too.

[william johnson]

5669

5670

5671I inherited a12 ga vhe ordered by my grand father and delivered 11 1930 for i think 69 $ the gun has 26 " vulcan barrels f/m 1/2 frame have paper work order,reciepts from parker tags i believe the gun is mint tighter than a new not redone any ideas on value thanks Bill

[Dean Romig]

William, you have a very desirable Parker! Don't even think about parting with that gun.
A desirable 1/2 frame is valuable in and of itself but couple that with a gun that was ordered by your grandfather still in that kind of condition makes it a valuable family heirloom!
Please show us pictures of it when you can.

[Harry Collins]

William,

Welcome to the PGCA. Glad you are here and hope to hear more from you. The best bet is to start a new thread on your grandfathers Parker. It sounds wonderful being on a 1/2 frame with short original barrels and tight chokes. I could not venture a guess on value without seeing some very good clear pictures. I have my fathers Parker and other family Parkers that are priceless to me.

Kindest, Harry

[william johnson]

gents i am new to computers .ihave no idea how my post ended up on 2 parkers i apolagize will send pics soon as poss. thanks

[Dean Romig]

No need to apologize. We're looking forward to the pictures.