Unusual Parker?

[Gordon Sjue]

I recently acquired a Parker 12 gauge V Grade, serial number 88XXX. It is a V grade #2 frame with 30 inch steel barrels choked F&F. The interesting thing about this gun is that it has what I would call gas checks in each barrel which depress when loaded. They appear to be factory installed. I suspect the gun was purchased to shoot live pigeons. I have never seen or read about this feature on a Parker. I tried to attach a photo but the upload fails each time. Could anyone enlighten me if this gun is a rare find?

[Ed Blake]

Gas checks? Where are they located relative to the extractors?

[Dean Romig]

Please keep trying to post the pictures Gordon. We're very interested in seeing what you describe.

[Dave Suponski]

Gordon, If you are using Windows XP just open the picture..right click..edit...stretch/skew will open ...reduce to 60%..and there ya go!

[Bill Murphy]

Do these contraptions keep the shell from falling out when the gun is open? Yup, we need pictures. What makes you think the gun was made for pigeons? Does it have anything to do with the "gas checks"?

[Mark Landskov]

If this is similar to a gun I recently read about on the DG forum, there are spring devices projecting into the chambers that maintain tension on the shells to prevent them from dropping out.

[James T. Kucaba]

[QUOTE=Gordon Sjue;26879]I r "The interesting thing about this gun is that it has what I would call gas checks in each barrel which depress when loaded."

GAS CHECKS ? ... Are you saying that the "gas checks" intended to release gases from behind the chamber to reduce the amount of the gun's recoil ?

I remember seeing a photo of a double barrel gun that had a shallow groove machined into the face of the standing breech that ran from the firing pin to the outside edge of the receiver ... And the caption said the groove was supposed to reduce the gun's "kick" by releasing gasses from behind the chamber ... Odd stuff like that is always fascinating so I can't wait to see your pictures.

Jim Kucaba ... AriZOOna Cactus Patch ... Email: JimKuca@aol.com

[Mark Landskov]

The circular groove around the firing pin, along with the groove leading outward, channels gases away from the shooter in the event of a ruptured /pierced primer.

[Dean Romig]

Jim, I saved those pictures. They were sent to me by a PGCA member years ago.

[Russ Jackson]

Dean; Is it possible to scan them and post them ,I would like to see what we are discussing !Do you suppose this was a " special order " from Parker Brothers ?Or would you suppose after market gunsmithing .

[Dean Romig]

I guess only a research letter on the particular gun might mention that feature.

I think I'll have to scan the photo. I'll look tonight when I get home from the polls.

[Dean Romig]

I found the pictures of the gun I thought had these gas vents but the shots I have didn't include them. I'll have to keep looking.....

[Gordon Sjue]

Thanks all for your replies. Mark opines that the spring devices are to apply tension to the shell to keep it from falling out. That very well may be correct. Dave thanks for the advice on sending a photo. I reduced the size and attached it. I hope successfully.

[Gordon Sjue]

Seems as though the photo did not go through. Any suggestions? The serial number for the gun is 88929.

[Dean Romig]

Gordon, we highly recommend you send for a PGCA Research Letter for this Parker. You can access the research letter function from the PGCA home page.

[Tom Carter]

I saw a gun at the Southern Classic in Georgetown that had the small spring- loaded devices that prevent the shell from faling out of the chamber. I think John Allgood had it. I don't remember the brand of the gun. This was the first gun I have seen with them. They were demonstrated and worked as intended. They have nothing to do with escaping gas protection. Cheers, Tom

[Dean Romig]

Tom, can you describe how and where they fit in the gun in the closed position?

[Tom Carter]

Hi Dean, They were approximately 1/4 to 3/8" from the rear of the chamber on the bottom. They would apply pressure on the brass portion of the shell. They were spring loaded and I think they could be adjusted from outside of the chamber with an Allen wrench to increase or decrease pressure on the shell. They protruded approximately 1/16" through the chamber. I just talked to John Allgood and it was not John who had the gun. It may have been someone who just walked by. And I do have a photographic memory but ran out of film ages ago. Cheers, Tom

[John Dallas]

Gordon - shown below are the picture posting instuctions from the FAQ section. There is more information ther, also

How do I attach a file to a post?

To attach a file to your post, you need to be using the main 'New Post' or 'New Thread' page and not 'Quick Reply'. To use the main 'New Post' page, click the 'Post Reply' button in the relevant thread.

On this page, below the message box, you will find a button labelled 'Manage Attachments'. Clicking this button will open a new window for uploading attachments. You can upload an attachment either from your computer or from another URL by using the appropriate box on this page. Alternatively you can click the Attachment Icon to open this page.

To upload a file from your computer, click the 'Browse' button and locate the file. To upload a file from another URL, enter the full URL for the file in the second box on this page. Once you have completed one of the boxes, click 'Upload'.

Once the upload is completed the file name will appear below the input boxes in this window. You can then close the window to return to the new post screen.

[Gordon Sjue]

Thanks all for your responses. I am not sure what happened when I edited the picture as advised. I can not now access that picture in my documents. It comes up the same as shown in my attempt to post the picture above. I have tried again to attach a JPEG photo exactly as suggested by John Dallas and each time the upload fails.

Tom Carter describes exactly how the gun is configured. I did notice what appears to be Allen screws located under the extractors.

I plan to request a research letter.

[JAMES HALL]

Mr. Carter I believe they were in that highly engraved gold inlaid V grade that walked in to see if we could recognize who might have done the work. The owner said they were to hold in the shells as has been described. Jim

[Tom Carter]

Mr. Jim you are probably correct. Maybe we'll see it again sometime. Cheers, Tom

[Gordon Sjue]

I am going to try again to attach the photo. I ordered a research letter. It will be interesting to see if this extra is mentioned.

[Dean Romig]

Very interesting... I've never seen that before. Looks like it could be quite effective. I wonder what kind of shooting or hunting situation would benefit from that.... ?

[Jerry Andrews]

I have 3 L.C. Smith guns with that type cut in the barrels. Never really thought much about it I guess. Jerry

[Gordon Sjue]

Dean I was wondering the same thing. If they are there to keep the shell from falling out of the chamber it does not make much sense to me as one would have to turn the gun up side down before this would happen. From my experience and with most of my non-ejector doubles, the spent shells do not easily fall out but have to be removed by hand. It would seem to me to make more sense that they are there to bleed off gas to reduce recoil. Maybe the research letter will provide an explanation.

Jerry you say you have an LC with cuts like this in the barrels. These are not cuts but spring-loaded pins.

Has anyone seen a Parker with this option? Does anyone have an opinion if this is a factory option or an aftermarket add on?

[Dean Romig]

Gordon, I'm going to say it is not a Parker Bros. factory option. There is no mention of such a device in The Parker Story or any other printed matter devoted specifically to Parker guns that I'm aware of.

[Dave Suponski]

I have personally never heard of this particular device but I would love to learn more about it.

[Jerry Andrews]

I think the dimples on my Smith guns are not the same thing that's pictured here. Jerry

[Jim Akins]

The cuts on the extractors are to clear the firing pin tips and are not necessary on Parker guns as they have rebounding locks, however L C Smith guns do not, ditto with Fox and Ithaca. Over the years I have observed the wire spring gismos on a few guns. They would be handy if you were crossing a lot of fences while hunting.

Jim A.

[Dean Romig]

A minor correction there Jim - The early Parker Bros. hammerless guns did not have rebounding strikers and the notches are very helpful in opening the gun after firing. But that's not the end of the story because the strikers also have a tendency to drag or catch in the dented primers after firing.

[Gordon Sjue]

Thanks for all your replies. Jim, if the gismos were installed to help retain the shell in the chamber, your fence-crossing explanation has some merit. It would seem however that this add on would not likely be something one would install in a gun choked full and full. Maybe the research letter will offer an explanation.
Somebody like Del Grego may be able to offer an opinion. He has seen and worked on a mountain of Parkers over the years. Anybody else have any ideas?

[Jim Akins]

Gordon, my thinking is that the spring gadgets are a later addition, I don't recall if the ones observed were on a Parker.

Dean, knew that early hammerless gun were not rebounding, but encountering one is remote, The notches on the extractor have nothing to do with pin tips hanging up on the primers, they are there to assist opening the gun if the pins are down on an empty chamber.

Jim

[calvin humburg]

What do they look like on the underside of the barrels?

[Gordon Sjue]

Here are two views.

[charlie cleveland]

how does shell go in the barrel...looks like the little pins would be in the way of loading a shell or extracting one...my first time to see these pins in a gun...i hope we find the answer to the mystery of these pins..... charlie

[Gordon Sjue]

Charlie, the pins are spring loaded and depress when the shell is in place. They cause no difficulty in loading or unloading.

I am not convinced that these gizmos are after-market add-ons. I have nothing to base this on but is seems to make little sense to put that kind of money in a gun for an extra that has so little apparent utility. Maybe is was a Parker prototype that somehow got in the market. Has anybody heard of a company that was doing this work in the late 1800s or in more modern times for that matter?

[Fred Preston]

I thought someone would have mentioned this possibiity by now, but here goes. The safest way to carry a loaded safetyless hammerless or a cocked and ready hammer gun in the field is with the action open. Without due care and good luck, the hapless hunter, through his staggering and inattentive movements will empty the chambers (been there, done that). That might be avoided by the use of the devices shown here.

[Dean Romig]

The notches on the extractor have nothing to do with pin tips hanging up on the primers, they are there to assist opening the gun if the pins are down on an empty chamber.

Jim

Yup, I know that.... my point was that the non-rebounding hammers exhibit more than one potential problem so, first you have to get them unstuck from the primers, then, if the notches are in the extractors you're home free. I've had them hang up on extractors without the notches even with shells or snap-caps in the chambers.

[Gordon Sjue]

Fred thanks for your reply. The gun in question does have an automatic safety. I agree the safest way to carry a loaded gun is with the action open and these devices would serve to hold the shells in that condition. When actually hunting and not just strolling, I for one do not carry my gun action open in the field and know of no double shooters that do. Even in Germany where I hunted for several years and where I consider the hunters to be more safety conscious than in the US, I did not see hunters employ this method. That is not to say it is not a good idea.

[Gordon Sjue]

I forgot to mention in my last post that I did discuss this gun with Larry Del Grego. He has never heard or seen this feature on a Parker but was quite interested. I sent him some photos and I will post any response I receive from him.

[Gordon Sjue]

After viewing the photos I sent him, Larry Del Grego said he had not seen this feature on any shotgun and was at a loss to explain the gizmos in my VH. He is going to look through some of his Parker info to see if there is any reference to them.

[Dean Romig]

As I stated earlier in this thread, there is no mention of this device in The Parker Story and that's good enough for me that it is not an invention of or even installed by Parker Bros.

[Gerald McPherson]

I saw a gentleman from Holland I think that carried his double open. He would not close it until the birds were in the air. Seemed strange to me. He was missing birds until another old fellow said something to him and then the story changed. He started killing about every one he shot at. Gerald

[Bill Murphy]

I wish more hunters, expecially preserve shooters, would walk with their guns open, because they sure don't know how to behave with a gun that is closed. It didn't used to be that way. What has happened? I have had preserve guides ask me about the gun handling of other shooters, hoping I can straighten them out.

[David Hamilton]

I have shot on preserves in which the instruction was for all guns to be open until birds were in the air. We all felt safer and I continue to hunt that way. Shooting my lifter I feel that open is the only safe way and the shell retaining springs would be great. David