Shell Recommendation/ Pressures Exceptable

[EddyDehmer]

Does anyone know if there is information out from companies on pressure testing from their loads they produce? I'm trying to purchase some shells for my 12 gauge with Low-Pressure loads. RST and Polywad are great shells, but sometimes the website is out of Bismuth for areas that I hunt and I was curious if anybody found information on this. I found some Bismuth produced by Kent that was 1 1/4 load at 1250 feet per second but you don't know the pressure produced would be acceptable for my Parker. I used to reload trap loads years ago, but I have been out of the mix on reloading for 15 years so I would love any direction if someone can share their experience. I know the feet per second and drams don't mean much without the pressure produced.

[Brian Dudley]

You will usually not get pressure data from factory loaded shells. If you ask various companies, The answer you will get is just that their shells meet SAAMI standards. Which I think is 13,000 psi for 12g loads, if I remember correctly off the top of my head.
My guess is that many companies change up their loading recipe from time to time based on availability or cost of components and those changes mean pressure changes as well.

[Dave Noreen]

71673

Several of the heavy 12-gauge smokeless powder loads (3 1/2 drams of bulk smokeless

71677

or 28-grains of dense smokeless powder,

71674

71675

71676

such as Infallible or Ballistite, pushing 1 1/4 ounce of shot) available from our North American ammunition companies from the late 1890s into the 1920s were higher pressure than today's SAAMI specs. We know the North American Nimrods tendency to shove the heaviest loads he can find in his gun!!

The real issue is not that the metal of these vintage guns, in proper condition, won't hold the pressures, but that the heavier payloads and higher velocity made possible by modern powders create much higher recoil forces which are harder on hundred year old wood and seventy year old shoulders.

[Brian Dudley]

Thanks for posting the Standard pressures Dave.

[EddyDehmer]

Thanks for the information and it looks like, I'm going to have to get another reloaded and I shouldn't have sold the last one. I will have to do some research on some previous post on the powder you recommend as well as wads. I will most likely only reload 12-gauge so I will have to see what is out there for a reloaded as I used to have a mech-grabber years ago. Do you all reload to the 2 3/4" or do you reload to 2 1/2". I have never reloaded for 2 1/2" so I would have to set the adjustments once I get back into it. I now understand what my dad felt like when I went to college and he told me 90% of what you learn I'm going to have to unteach you wrong theory. Blessings to both of you!

[Eric Eis]

Eddy, in the mean time you can get RST shell which are loaded to lower pressures then most shells and they will share the pressures created with you.

[EddyDehmer]

Thanks for that information as I did buy some shells from RST, and I will email them and ask for that information. So my question for you guys that reload, do you have a chart you go off of that tells you the pressure of the powder type based on the amount of powder dropped in the reloader or do you actually know someone who can test your reloads. I'm curious as in the past I used different bushings that dropped different amount of powder so I knew what my powder charge was. Low pressure is totally new to me in reloading so I want to do this right and someone else's experience is the best experience. I'm someday excited to pass this knowledge onto some friends of mine that are in the process as well of buying a Parker and carry on some our American History. I feel like owning a Parker is not a gun but more a privilege and a responsibility at the same time.

[Bruce Day]

I’m not particularly concerned with low chamber pressures as long as they are comfortably under published Parker service load pressures. Unless a person’s guns are thin walled or otherwise infirm , it is an unnecessary caution.

[Daniel Carter]

Go to the online site of the powder maker and look up the load you want and the pressures will be listed for each load and it will give you a choice of high to low.

[todd allen]

I can't imagine how an ammo company could be in business without knowing their product's pressures. That said, I agree with Bruce on this.
BTW the MEC Grabber is probably the best all-around choice for the average re-loader.
It kinda reminds me of a mid 60s VW bug. Cheap, but reliable enough to get you to New York and back.

[Bruce Day]

All manufacturers quality control by random sampling. Pressure and patterning are key tests. They also know their cartridge pressures. Sales people may not know but the engineers and QC people do.

Lots of cartridges from the major manufacturers fall below Parker max service loads. It’s when loads are heavy , the 1 1/4 and 3 1/4 dre stuff, that pressures exceed max. No Black Cloud Prairie Storm hyper magnum stuff, that you don’t want . I don’t think there is a 12ga 1oz, 2 3/4 Dre or under 1200 FPS load that isn’t acceptable . If there is, I haven’t seen it.

You want the stuff that doesn’t cycle a recoil driven auto well.

[Brian Dudley]

I can't imagine how an ammo company could be in business without knowing their product's pressures. That said, I agree with Bruce on this.
BTW the MEC Grabber is probably the best all-around choice for the average re-loader.
It kinda reminds me of a mid 60s VW bug. Cheap, but reliable enough to get you to New York and back.

They know. Most just wont tell you. Other than referring to SAAMI.

[Dean Romig]

It's a "legal" thing.





.

[Paul Harm]

RST will tell you pressures. You can go to Hodgdon or Alliant web sites for loads, but I find it much easier to use one of their reloading manuals which are free for the asking. As Bruce said, 1oz loads are your friend at or under 1200fps, and there are many many of them. Most of us like something under 7500 or 8000psi out of respect for the wood. Go to our reloading forum for more info.

[Drew Hause]

Kent non-toxic 12g (2016)
Bismuth 2 1/2” @ 1400 fps 1 1/16 oz. - 9800 psi; 1 1/8 oz. - 10,000 psi

Tungsten Impact 2 3/4” @ 1400 fps, 1 1/4 oz. - 9900 psi; 1 3/8 oz. - 11400

Kent Bismuth® Premium Upland 2018
2 3/4”, 1 1/16 oz., 1325 fps, 10,000 psi

Kent Bismuth® Premium Waterfowl 2018
2 3/4”, 1 1/4 oz, 1325 fps, 10,800 psi

More factory pressures at the bottom here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F2sQuPm05IE4VWYYnCkvuXmYEzQoWd_SQgaAfUOZEFU/preview

BTW: very few Parkers haven't been shot with some Super-X boomers. Check these pressures
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=543522

[Paul Harm]

Back when I first started reloading in the late 60s it never dawned on me to use a scale to weigh powder drops. I think most guys just put in the recommended bushing. Today it's kind a understood that you should weigh the charges. The bushings are just a starting point seeing how everyone's mechanics are a bit different. Digital scales are quite cheap - $30 or so.

[Bill Murphy]

The powder companies' booklets and their websites give you "published loads" which is what you should be loading, unless you have tested loads from other sources. RST has a file cabinet full of loads that have been pressure tested, and they will share that information with you. They continuously test existing and new loads and insert the results in their files. If you ask about a load they sell that they do not have in their files, they will shoot it in their test guns and tell you what they find. It is all done at their factory office, which has a firing range within a few feet of their computers and desks. I know, hard to believe, but that's the way it is.

[Dean Romig]

Austin Hogan visited RST in 2010 and interviewed Morris Baker and Alex and Jill Papp and wrote a great article for Parker Pages Fall 2010 Issue, titled "Parker Pages Visits the RST Classic Shotshell Company" and you can very easily find it and read it in your very own "Parker Pages Digital Archive". But, as Austin sometimes did, he didn't include a by-line so you'll need to search for the article (with excellent pictures of the RST operation) by its title.





.

[EddyDehmer]

Hey everyone I wanted to forward the information that I received back from Kent and I hope this helps everyone out.


Here is what we have
B12U30 model is the 1325 fps and its psi is shown at = 10,800
B12U36 is 1350 fps and it shows a psi at = 10,100
Hope this helps!
Have a great day,
Kent Cartridge Customer Service