My 1899 Parker 12 gauge

[D. Shane Burton]

Hey guys, I just wanted to post some info and pics of my two Parkers, so I can get some feedback about them and also figure out possible value. Any idea on condition?

Parker Brothers 12 gauge, frame size 2, weight = 4, and Kf mark. Both barrel chambers measure 0.812in. The depth to the powder ring in the chambers is 2 1/2in. The choke on the right barrel is 0.740 horizontal and 0.715 vertical (not perfectly round). The choke on the left barrel is 0.735 horizontal, 0.715 vertical. Chokes are ??? Barrel lengths are 24 5/8in.

It has the Parker Brothers and hunting dog buttplate and a plain gold shield on the lower stock. Its serial number is 93289, dating it 1899.

Something inside causes spring resistance when you open the action and it doesn't set the firing pins/triggers. The triggers fall into a fired position if you flip the safety off, but the pins don't drop. I will look into having it repaired. It's condition is the rougher of the two Parkers I have. I'll let the following pictures speak for themselves. I'll put up more after this. In the second picture, the 12 is at the top:

LINKS TO BIG PICTURES NOW FIXED:

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Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[Harry Collins]

Shane,

93289 is in the "Book" and listed as a VH with capped pistol grip and 30" barrels. Your barrels have been cut off and are cylinder and cylinder. Don't dispare as this will make a great bird gun. I don't think the cocking hook on the barrel lug has ingaged the cocking lever. Could be it is just cruded up and stuck in a position that it will not catch. Take the barrels off the gun and see if the little hook that hangs between tthe lugs moves freely. It is spring loaded. Let us know.

Kindest, Harry

[D. Shane Burton]

Thanks, Harry. I'm disappointed to hear they've been cut down, as I was hoping the gun hadn't been modified. I bought it more as a collector than actual shooter, especially with the mechanical issues. The problem it has will not allow the barrel assembly to slide out of the action, so I can't get it apart in the normal way; any idea what to do? How bad do the cut-down barrels affect the value?

Shane

[D. Shane Burton]

Harry, could you check my 16 gauge in the other thread? I'm having a sinking feeling it will be cut-down too, as it has barrels have similar measurements for the choke and the barrels are 24". :mad:

Shane

[Jim Williams]

When you remove the forend from the gun, look at the "knuckle", which is the part of the receiver that is normally covered by the curved end of the forend when it is in place. From the knuckle of the receiver, you should see a small pin protruding. If it is not protruding (or if it is, but not far enough) then the cocking mechanism has not disengaged from the barrels. Use some gun solvent and soak the pin and the hole in the knuckle it resides in. Then flick it, tap it, etc. until it pops out (maybe 3/16 or 1/4 in.?). This should cause the cocking mechanism to disengage so you can get the barrels off. Another trick to jar the pin loose is to dry-fire the gun with the forend removed, but it sounds like your gun isn't cocking right, so you may not be able to do that. If the pin won't protrude, let it soak in solvent overnight and try it again later.

Jim

[D. Shane Burton]

Thanks, Jim, but that little pin is protruding just like the one on my 16 that's working. I actually have spring tension pushing back against my hand when I move the barrels to the full open position. They won't cock the triggers or let the barrels stay all the way open. They're forced back partially closed by spring pressure if I let them go. Hmm...

Shane

[Ed Blake]

In terms of value they are worth more as parts guns than anything. I would be very hesitant to shoot either one.

[D. Shane Burton]

In terms of value they are worth more as parts guns than anything. I would be very hesitant to shoot either one.

Any idea of a $ value? I know what I paid for them, so I'd like to know where I stand--if I took a loss or not.

Thanks,
Shane

[Harry Collins]

Shane,

I have a few Parkers I picked up for $350.00 and less that I shoot. I would have to have yours in hand to know if I would shoot and use them.

Harry

[D. Shane Burton]

Harry, since the 16 GA barrels were only cut approximately 2 inches, making them about Improved Cylinders, would they be safe to shoot, do you think? Especially if I had a gunsmith put the slightly out-of-round one back in round? Check out the picture:

I'm thinking the 16 GA is in good enough mechanical shape to be a shooter, but I'm going to have a gunsmith look it over first. It's a little bit loose. The 12 GA is basically a wall-hanger/parts gun.

http://img43.imageshack.us/i/p9100048s.jpg

Shane

[Harry Collins]

Shane,

They don't look enough out of round to worry about. It is hard to tell from the photo just how thick the barrels are. I would find a gunsmith that is capable of measureing barrel wall thickness. If it is loose the cost of tightening would more than the gun is worth. How is it loose? Is it back and forth or up and down or both?

Harry

[D. Shane Burton]

Well, the barrels lock down completely--no up and down looseness. It just seems to have a small bit of play. I guess I really need the gunsmith to determine that. You can just feel a slight probably side to side give in the closed barrel to action fit, not even enough to be visibly noticed, just felt. This is without shells in it. I don't have any other side-by-sides, so I don't know exactly how bad it is.

I wish I could hand you the gun through the screen so you could check it out. :rolleyes: ;)

Thanks for the help, Harry. I'm going to bring it in and see what they tell me. It would be nice if I could at least get a shooter out of the 16 GA. I also believe these guns will look far better if I clean them, and now that I know they're not that valuable, I think I'll clean off 100 years worth of grime and see how they look. Any objections for the sake of patina? Or would cleaning be okay?

Shane

[Jim Williams]

Slight looseness ("off-face") can be remedied for safe-shooting purposes by shimming the hook as a "temporary" fix. Determine how loose the gun is by finding the largest feeler gage you can close the gun on without forcing it (place the gages between the chamber end of the barrel and the breech face of the receiver). When you determine the thickness of that gage, make a shim out of stock of that thickness (or slightly less) or just use the feeler gage itself to cut the shim from. For instance, if the gun will just close on a .002 gage, make a shim out of .0015 stock or gage leaf. Cut the shim to fit the curved surface of the barrel hook that fits around the hinge pin of the receiver. Pre-bend a curve into the shim by wrapping it around a drill bit a little smaller than the hinge pin diameter, until the shim takes on a curvature that matches that of the barrel hook. Apply a dab of grease to the shim to stick it to the hook and carefully re-assemble the gun and check the fit of barrels to receiver. If too tight, go down to the next size stock and make another shim. If too loose, go up a size. I have a couple of Parkers I did this "temporary" fix to years ago, and I'm still shooting them that way because they work perfectly and I hate to send them off for a proper repair, but I'll get around to it.

[D. Shane Burton]

Awesome info, Jim! I'll check the tolerance when I get home. Since my dad's a retired machinist, I'm sure he can fabricate a proper shim by these directions, if that's the problem.

Shane

[Harry Collins]

Shane,

I'll show you the fix in pictures. I purchased the brass shims in sheets at the hardware store for about $5.00. As a temporary fix cut a aluminum can (Beer or Coke) down to fit the hinge pin.

Harry

[D. Shane Burton]

Cool--that really helps. I didn't have the opportunity to have my dad check the tolerance this evening, so I'll try later tonight or tomorrow. I know we can do that if need be.

Thanks again, Harry.

Shane

[D. Shane Burton]

Well, it seems the 16 Gauge's left barrel has an 8/1000 in (0.008) gap and the right is 10/1000 in (0.010). There may be a slight tilting, so let's say 9/1000 in (0.009) out. I'm guessing these are too far out to shim? I guess I'm looking at both just being parts guns. :(

Shane

[Harry Collins]

Shane,

Shim the hinge pin like I showed you then measure.

Harry

[Dean Romig]

Harry's right. Depending on the amount of wear at the hinge, some guns will require a thicker shim than others while others in better condition require no shim at all.

[D. Shane Burton]

Thanks guys. I'll get my dad, who has experience with these things, to help me when he can--probably over the weekend. I'll post the outcome.

Thanks again for all the help.

Shane

[Bill Murphy]

Don't give up on shooting these guns because there are no parts to "part out". Shooting is your last hope.

[D. Shane Burton]

I've decided to take them in to a reputable gunsmith on Saturday for evaluation. I think the 12 gauge is too far gone, but I'll ask the gunsmith about it. I'm really hoping that with shimming and a little work, the 16 gauge will live to shoot another day. :draw:

Shane