Would you use them ?

[Karl Ferguson]

I read many different discussions on various forums last night trying to educate myself on whether or not to use 2 3/4" shells in a 2 1/2" chambered 20 Ga gun. I'm still not sure after all the reply's what the correct answer is.

Since this pertains to a 1912 VH 20 Ga with factory 2 1/2" chambers in excellent mechanical condition I would like to get ya'lls opinion. I shoot RST shells in all my 20 Ga guns and Julie gave me the PSI of the shells listed below.


20 Ga. • 2 3/4" • 2 1/2 DE • Vel. 1125 • 7/8 oz. 7000 PSI

20 Ga. • 2 1/2" • Falcon Lite • Vel. 1125 • 7/8 oz. 7200 PSI


I already have 3 cases of the 2 3/4" shells listed but don't have any 2 1/2" shells.

SO ... From your personal experience would it be safe to use the 2 3/4" shells that I have in the VH 20 verses having to buy the 2 1/2" shells ?

Thanks

[Ken Hill]

Karl,

The tests done by Sherman Bell and published in the Double Gun Journal were with a 12 gauge. There was up to 300 psi increase with the 2 3/4" shell in a 2 1/2" chamber. The 2 3/4" shells from RST are 200 psi less than the 2 1/2" shells. If you shoot the 2 3/4" shells you need to see if the ends are fraying. This will be a sign they are too long for the chamber area. Then you probably want to use 2 1/2" cartridges.

Hopefully, Drew will chime in.

Ken

[Daryl Corona]

Karl,
The short answer is yes, you should be fine. You did'nt say if you reloaded or not but if you do you can roll your own loads at 7000psi and under with no problem. That's all I shoot are 2 3/4" shells out of my Parkers, Foxes and Lefevers but I do load my own at 3/4oz. @6000psi.

That being said, for years before I knew any better about reduced payloads I ran a steady diet of 7/8 and 1 oz. loads through my short chambered Parkers. Now I am protecting my shoulder and the wood of my guns with what I call velvet hammer loads.

[scott kittredge]

Karl,
The short answer is yes, you should be fine. You did'nt say if you reloaded or not but if you do you can roll your own loads at 7000psi and under with no problem. That's all I shoot are 2 3/4" shells out of my Parkers, Foxes and Lefevers but I do load my own at 3/4oz. @6000psi.

That being said, for years before I knew any better about reduced payloads I ran a steady diet of 7/8 and 1 oz. loads through my short chambered Parkers. Now I am protecting my shoulder and the wood of my guns with what I call velvet hammer loads.

Same for me

[John Taddeo]

Both hulls are listed 2 3/4"..

[Bruce Day]

It won’t make a bit of difference. I’ve used both for many years in both fluid steel and Damascus guns.

What will make a practical difference is the powder and shot load in the cartridge, not the length of the hull.

[Randy G Roberts]

If it's a hunting gun you can consider lengthening the chambers thus removing all the concerns over pressure as it pertains to shell length that you may have shooting ammunition that your gun was not designed to shoot.

[Dean Romig]

As chambers are lengthened the wall thickness at the juncture of the chamber and forcing cone becomes an issue of primary concern because as the chamber is lengthened you encroach on the tapered or sloped exterrior of the barrel.






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[todd allen]

As chambers are lengthened the wall thickness at the juncture of the chamber and forcing cone becomes an issue of primary concern because as the chamber is lengthened you encroach on the tapered or sloped exterrior of the barrel.

.

I crossed this bridge years ago with an old 2 1/2" chambered H&H SLE, that I purchased from Briley's, btw. They said it would not be advisable to lengthen the chambers, but the shoulders could be tapered from the forcing cone to the bore.
So, that is what we did.

[Rich Anderson]

If it's a hunting gun you can consider lengthening the chambers thus removing all the concerns over pressure as it pertains to shell length that you may have shooting ammunition that your gun was not designed to shoot.
With all do respect to Randy NO DON'T DO THIS:nono::nono::nono:
The easy and simple anser is just shoot the 2 1/2 shell the gun was designed for. All I shoot are 2 1/2 from 12 down to 410. Never been a disadvantage.

[Randy G Roberts]

It's concerning how many times I have spoken to Gunsmiths concerning lengthening chambers and this conversation or information has never came up. Most recently with a fellow who is well known around the PGCA world if you will. I had the chambers lengthened a few years ago on a Sterly 20 and that's it to date. Duly noted and good info Gents !

[Bill Anderson]

Think about this ... I am sure that the time between the production of most old SxSs and the birth of collector associations and forums on the internet, bringing these concerns to light, most of the guns we get our hands on today were shot with any shotshells that were available at the time, maybe 100s, 1000s of times without even thinking of chamber length or age of the gun. If someone bought an old Fox in 1982, for example, they would simply go to the gun store in their neighborhood or K-Mart and buy any shotshell they wanted for what they were going to hunt.

Bill

[Bill Murphy]

Todd's comment about tapering the junction from the forcing cone to the bore got me thinking. Tapering the junction from the forcing cone to the bore is actually "lengthening the forcing cone". By the way, how much encroachment into the forcing cone is experienced in the first 1/4 inch of the forcing cone? I would rather have the extra metal than 150 psi less pressure.

[Harry Collins]

In the early issues of Double Gun Journal (I'm going on memory here friends) John Brindle wrote some articles titled "Nitro for Black". His conclusion was that if you stay at or under 8,000 psi you are good to go with modern powders.

[Harry Collins]

The VH that Sherman Bell blew up Took some 31,400 psi before it let go at the breech where the extractor pin and the dolls head screw almost connect. If I recall correctly I had those forcing cones lengthened. I know I wanted it done, but I can't recall it the gunsmith talked me out of it or not. Today I will not change chokes, mess with the chambers or forcing cones on a Parker.

[todd allen]

Todd's comment about tapering the junction from the forcing cone to the bore got me thinking. Tapering the junction from the forcing cone to the bore is actually "lengthening the forcing cone". By the way, how much encroachment into the forcing cone is experienced in the first 1/4 inch of the forcing cone? I would rather have the extra metal than 150 psi less pressure.

Yes. "Lengthening the forcing cones" is what the procedure is called.
The gun is a 6 lb 5 oz 12 gauge, with 30" bbls, that came with 2 1/2" chambers.
Lengthening the forcing cones lowers the pressure, without weakening the chamber area.

[Bruce Day]

So you make the walls of the chamber thinner but it does not make the walls weaker?

[Kenneth V Jones]

Would lengthened chambers void the proof?

[Richard Flanders]

Thanks for that question Bruce. Lengthening the forcing cones without weakening the chamber area defies the laws of physics big time.

[Bruce Day]

Here is a Parker published loading table showing drams in black powder. Just substitute drams black to drams equivalent in smokeless. Unless you have hogged out barrels or wrecked stocks.

[todd allen]

Thanks for that question Bruce. Lengthening the forcing cones without weakening the chamber area defies the laws of physics big time.

I'm just going with what Chuck Webb from Briley's told me. I would guess that he knows a little bit about shotgun barrel internals.