Interesting Teague Liners

[Bruce Day]

16ga 0 frame damascus with 16ga Teague liners.

The blisters or bubbles are halfway down the barrel and flex downwardly when pressed by a pencil erasor tip. The barrels were cleaned only with steel wool and light abrasive and not carded.

A person may need to click on the photo to increase size if he needs to see greater detail.

These are the first barrels I've seen with Teague liners although I have heard about them for a few years. I understand they are $2000 per barrel or $4000 for a set, but I could be wrong about the current price.

[richard lambert]

Looks like who ever did the job did not get the tool straight and took too much off in that area. I would not be a happy camper to get that result back!

[Dean Romig]

My understanding is that Teague only recently started lining 16 ga. barrels.... maybe that's the first set they did ? :shock:

That would be absolutely unacceptable tp me. If the people at Teague had measured OD as well as ID they would have surely discovered that the barrel walls were not thick enough to allow being bored to such an extent without coming through the barrel wall. Sure, the barrels have been proofed and are perfectly shootable, but moisture will eventually find its way under those bubbles and it won't take long at all for rust to come through..... IMHO

[Tom Brown]

I feel the recipient's pain, a definite refund, what the h*ll were they thinking?

[Bruce Day]

Look at the co-axial concentricity of the left barrel liner ( left when look directly at the muzzle) relative to the remainder of the original barrel and compare that to the concentricity of the right barrel.

These were recently lined.

I make no comments one way or the other. I'm simply pointing out interesting areas.

[Dean Romig]

It's obvious that the problem has a lot to do with how the barrels were originally struck by Parker Bros.

[Brad Bachelder]

Bruce, the concentricity of the original tubes is compromised to a degree by extensive hand fitting. Draw filing for shape prior to assembly was done by hand, causing varible wall thickness. Measuring the O.D. and I.D. cant allways detect this. The greatest culprit in this case is the fitting and solder removal from the top rib. To acheive a prefect fit of the rib removes quite a bit of material. My biggest concern for these tubes is the top rib not holding during recoil. I don't know of any quick fix.

Brad

[Bruce Day]

...... I don't know of any quick fix.

Brad

Or a slow fix, either.

When you buy an old double, you are buying barrels. There, I've gotten preachy and I said I wasn't going to. I think I'll go hug my barrels now and tell them how grateful I am to have them.

I want to be clear that these are not my barrels. They were here locally for damascus finishing.

[Dave Suponski]

Brad, I agree with most everything you mention. We know that Parker rough turned the barrels tubes including the taper before assembly and that final striking was done after assembly. This would almost certainly make the bores not concentric with the OD.To bore a set of finished tubes the ID would have to be indicated in as you know and I would still be one nervous guy boring that deep.

You have a whole lot more experience fitting ribs than I do and I find it very educational that there would be that much material removed in that vicinity to fit ribs.

I learned something new today....thanks

[Richard Flanders]

They are wall hangers now I'm afraid. I wouldn't use them. I'm sure they're sound but those blisters are too funky for me.

[Bill Murphy]

I always insist that my barrels be harder than pencil erasers, no exceptions.

[Bill Murphy]

Are we implying that Teague does not measure wall thickness before they install the liners? Is it considered OK if the Teague liner is visible from the outside?

[Ed Blake]

Has the owner contacted Teague about this and have they responded?

[paul driscoll]

Steve Bertram of Bertram & Co. here in Boulder Is the US agent for Teague Liners in the states now. You could contact him and ask who did the work. I truly doubt it was him. His website is on the opening page at www.doublegunshop.com 303-938-1996

[Bruce Day]

Stranger and stranger.

The owner called me and told me:
1. Teague relaid the ribs. Steve Bertram called him and told him Teague had determined they would need to relay the ribs.
2. He had Teague liners put in so he could shoot smokeless powder handloads. He worked with Bertram & Co, Teague's US agent, to have the work done.



Paul, its not my gun, not my issue, my guns have good barrels and I shoot smokeless powder loads through mine regularly, ranging from full load pressures to reduced pressure. I've never considered Teague liners and have no reason to. The owner told me that he is not a PGCA member. The owner has not contacted Teague yet. Not my place to ride herd on this whole matter. I posted the pictures because I thought it presented interesting issues for those who have considered the work.

Bill, I'm implying nothing. I just present the facts known to me and shown in the photos and the statements of the gun owner.

[paul driscoll]

Bruce, i'm not pointing or saying anything. I was just sitting on the sidelines reading this post, and knew only what I posted. I make it a point never to stir the pot.

[Jim Williams]

Bruce, I believe the prices you mention are in the ballpark, perhaps slightly low. I remember originally they were around 2000.00 or so for the pair, but then they got a U.S. agent and the price doubled. I was told that part of the price increase is that it costs more to send the barrels back and forth from England now (that much??), and I was also TOLD that Teague will no longer line barrels without also re-laying the ribs at the same time. Apparently they had some problems with ribs separating during the process, so they made a re-lay mandatory. That could explain the problem in the pics. Bore them out for the liners on the inside, and re-strike them for a good rib re-fit on the outside, and...oops.

Although they have a U.S. agent, none of the work is done here - they are all sent to Teague in England.

The above was what I was told by the U.S. agent (except for the part about the problem in the pics).

As Brad mentioned, removing the excess solder from the crevice where the rib meets the barrel is a real pain (I've done a few sets) and it takes a lot of filing/scraping/sanding to get it all out of the crevice. You've got to be careful and not let impatience make you heavy-handed.

Jim

[Bruce Day]

Either:

A. Parker made the barrel walls thin on the left tube but not on the right.
OR
B. Teague, when they re-laid the rib, thinned the barrel walls excessively at the juncture of the left rib side or I suppose its possible that the boring was not concentric to the barrels.

If A, this is the first one I've seen and I have looked closely at hundreds of Parker barrels. I have also looked at hundreds of Parker barrels from the muzzles and cannot recall ever seeing one where the rib was originally laid off center. Below are two photos. The first is of the muzzles of another damascus (Bernard) 16ga barrel set showing what I have found to be standard Parker barrel muzzle end configuration. The second is of the Teague lined barrels and shows the position of the top rib relative to the barrels and the concentricity of the liners relative to the original remaining barrel walls .

This is the first set of Teague lined barrels I have ever had in hand. I was not familiar with them until a member from Philadelphia posted several times about them and how one could not see the liner joint at either muzzle or breach end. Again, I am no expert, not a machinist, not a gunsmith, not a barrel expert, and maybe somebody else can shed some light on this.

[Bill Murphy]

I never thought much of a $4000 barrel job that involved running a hone or a reamer down a tube that only has wall thickness in the twenties to start with. I especially don't think much of such a process when the gun isn't worth as much as the cost of the process when it's finished. "Those crazy Brits!"

[Richard Flanders]

Seems they just honed that one barrel until it broke through. What a shame. Whatever went wrong, if they were mine I would consider them a total loss and would dismantle them and part them out.

[Jim Williams]

Bruce, I've seen good close-up pics of Teague-lined barrels that were absolutely undetectable from original unlined barrels (except for the stamps they add on the flats). I thought a lot more of the process back when I saw those. Then I, like Bill, thought a lot less when the price doubled. Then there's this set you showed. Ugh... This thing is going downhill fast. I agree with Richard - pretty much a loss.