AHE damascus

[Tom Flanigan]

There is an AHE with two sets of damascus barrelsf for sale at Steve Barnett's. I am considering this gun. Does anyone know anything about this gun? Has it been buried or is it a gun known to a member(s). If information is available, it would help my decision.

[Greg Baehman]

Barnett describes it as "excellent original condition". I, of course, could be wrong, but it sure appears to have undergone a SST to DT conversion.
https://stevebarnettfineguns.com/parker-1-shotguns-for-sale/parker-ahe-12-gauge-with-extra-barrels

[Tom Flanigan]

I saw that and its not a problem for me. One barrel set appears to have been cut also, which is not a problem as long as the other set is intact and was Parker provided and numbered to the gun. Thanks for your input. I guess I will call Steve for more detail. I was hoping someone would know this gun and could provide some input.

[Brian Dudley]

Barnett describes it as "excellent original condition". I, of course, could be wrong, but it sure appears to have undergone a SST to DT conversion.
https://stevebarnettfineguns.com/parker-1-shotguns-for-sale/parker-ahe-12-gauge-with-extra-barrels



Arent they all in “excellent original conditon”?

It is a nice gun. Great engraving. But... pretty much no case color and no trigger guard blue. But perfect checkering and appearingly perfect barrel finish.

Those two combinations do not really add up. Looks to me like at least a few major things have been done. Not good if you really want an original gun.

[Tom Flanigan]

Thanks for your input Brian. It's the engraving that has me interested. It's a great early example of Parker engraving. But I don't want a heavily re-worked gun either. Before I pull the trigger, I'll stop by Steve Barnett's and look the gun over in person. Then I can be sure one way or the other.

[todd allen]

That's a beautiful gun! Love the engraving.

[Bill Murphy]

Does Steve have a letter? I know I will have to duck after asking this question, but I'm willing to take the pressure for my friend, Tom.

[Dean Romig]

I know the gun very well, have examined it and I’ve even shot it at Hausmann’s several years ago.
To the best of my knowledge, it is the only known example of a Parker with original wedge engraving on Damascus barrels.

There’s nothing to hide about this gun - it is everything you see, no issues or faults.





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[edgarspencer]

Maybe it's just me, But I do not believe the engraved wedges on the damascus barrels are original.

[Dean Romig]

It’s just you Edgar... they are most definitely original.





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[Mark Ray]

Tom, the ad says one set of damascus, and one set of steel barrels, and says that they think the damascus barrels are factory add ons...wonder what quality steel the original barrels are, and why they arent pictured?

[edgarspencer]

It’s just you Edgar... they are most definitely original

Perhaps, but the wedges are plainly not if the same hand as the receiver. I’d like to see another example of documented Grade 6 Damascus barrels with engraved barrel wedges.



**edited to add Grade 6

[Shawn Wayment]

Tom...

If you buy said gun...just don't take it ptarmigan hunting!

[Dean Romig]

Perhaps, but the wedges are plainly not if the same hand as the receiver. I’d like to see another example of documented Damascus barrels with engraved barrel wedges.

Again Edgar, I beg to disagree with you. In my opinion the wedges are very likely to have been engraved by the same "hand" as the rest of the gun. Just look, for example, at the band of engraving encircling the breech end of the barrels and see that its execution is exactly the same as the corresponding band of engraving on the breech balls. Consider also that engraving Damascus has its own set of problems to overcome that are not present in homologus fluid pressed steel, very likely requiring a different approach or practice of execution than the fluid pressed steel. And there may also be variables we're not even considering in the level of difficulty presented by the Damascus barrels.

Again, I believe this is the only known set of Damascus barrels with such engraved wages. Highly respected Parker collectors agree with this premise regarding this gun.




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[Bill Mullins]

Many years ago when visiting Chadicks Ltd I saw a set of Damascus barrels that
had belonged to a AAH grade gun. They had the barrel engraved wedges. The gun at one time had been returned to the factory for fluid steel barrels to be added. Herschel said the gun had both sets of barrels when he purchased it. The
gun was sold with the steel barrels only as according to Herschel the buyer did
not want the Damascus barrels as he believed them to be unsafe!! I have always
regretted not trying to buy those barrels. They were beautiful. This incident occurred in the 1980's well before we started researching and writing The Parker Story.

[Dave Suponski]

Dean and Bill, Doesn’t Larry’s AA Damascus barrels have the wedge engraving?

[Bill Mullins]

Yes, Dave they do. I was merely pointing out that there could be more than one set of Damascus barrels produced with wedge engraving..... AA or A grade.

[Tom Flanigan]

Does Steve have a letter? I know I will have to duck after asking this question, but I'm willing to take the pressure for my friend, Tom.


Many thanks to my buddy Bill and all the others who have responded. You guys are great. It's so good to have you guys out there before deciding whether to pull the trigger on an expensive gun. I am also looking at another early high grade and I'll make my decision in a week. I truly appreciate you guys. You guys are the best!!!

[Tom Flanigan]

Tom...

If you buy said gun...just don't take it ptarmigan hunting!

I won't Shawn. I know what can happen to a gun on the high peaks. My next trip out there is in November.

[edgarspencer]

Dean, all of the floral terminations on the receiver are tightly wrapped, and yet none are nearly so tightly wrapped on the barrel wedge.
Since barrel wedge engraving was almost exclusively a grade 7 feature, one could assume that if the wedges were original (to the barrels, not to this gun,as stated by the seller) then these barrels were from a grade 7 gun. However, there were only three grade 7 damascus barrelled guns. There were nearly 200 damascus barreled grade 6 guns, and while others here have spoken of seeing grade 7 Damascus barrel wedges, they are not speaking of grade 6.
As you have seen the gun in hand, and shot it at Ernies, were you shooting the cylinder bore cut barrels? Did you notice the quality of the restamped number on the barrel?
Restamping of serial numbers on barrels is commonplace now, and,as is being done now by Batchelder on a gun for me, the original number is ground off, probably using a carbide ball end mill, or burr, followed by either TIG, or more likely laser welding, and, finally restamping.
None of those welding processes were available back when this barrel was purported to have been mated up with the gun.
I haven't held this gun in hand, but others have and questions remain.

[edgarspencer]

Dean and Bill, Doesn’t Larry’s AA Damascus barrels have the wedge engraving?

Yes, Dave they do. I was merely pointing out that there could be more than one set of Damascus barrels produced with wedge engraving..... AA or A grade.

I, too, have seen Larry's Grade 7 damascus gun, at Addieville. I corrected my original post as it was my intent to say I had not seen grade 6 damascus barrels with wedges.
All of the above, by myself and others notwithstanding, I still can't agree that the 205,xxx gun was engraved by the same person who engraved the barrels of unknow vintage.

[Dean Romig]

I agree, questions do remain but I think making so many unfounded assumptions about this gun only serves to denigrate the gun and cast unnecessary shadows on it, the seller, and the owner of this fine gun.

I won’t comment further - I have stated what I believe and a couple of things I know are facts. More commentary would only be speculation and would serve no end.


Bill Millins is of course correct in not assigning definite ‘facts’ to the gun and the Damascus barrels.
Without actual documented data, everything is opinion.


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[Tom Flanigan]

If I decide on this gun and not the other early high grade, I will take the trip to Barnett's and look at the gun in person. I'm retired and have the time. One thing that validates the gun, to a large extent, is that I have the name of a former owner that was sent in a PM, of a person, now deceased, that I greatly respected and was a top collector. I'll let everyone know of my decision.

[Dean Romig]

It is my opinion that the gun, 205XXX was engraved by Frederick Anschutz during his tenure as senior, or chief, engraver between the years 1911 (when he took the position vacated by William Gough when he moved to Phila. to become the chief engraver for AH Fox) and 1930 or '31 when he passed away. The wedges engraved on the Damascus barrels (which many say are not original to the gun) may still very well have been engraved (and I have stated my opinion on this earlier in the discussion) by the same hand sometime between 1911 and 1923 - the year the gun was made...

The fact that the pattern and execution of the "fiddleheads" (as Edgar calls them) engraved on the frame doesn't match the pattern and execution of those in the barrel wedges does not preclude them from being engraved by the same person.



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[Tom Flanigan]

I agree with you Dean. The engraving is among the best I have ever seen on an A grade.

[Garry L Gordon]

Regardless of the speculation posted regarding this gun, it's still a beautiful piece. I'm always fascinated by the expertise -- and personal opinions -- of my very knowledgeable Association colleagues. When I read the comments, I learn so much about Parkers, and also about human nature. I do think that sometimes there are different collecting philosophies at play that may seem to be conflicting -- not just about originality.

It seems to me that Tom is very fortunate to be in a position to purchase a gun like this, and that he has some soul searching to do to be able to decide exactly what his priorities are in getting a high grade Parker. It's a wonderful dilemma.

Tom, let us see what you decide upon!

[Mark Ray]

Regardless of the speculation posted regarding this gun, it's still a beautiful piece. I'm always fascinated by the expertise -- and personal opinions -- of my very knowledgeable Association colleagues. When I read the comments, I learn so much about Parkers, and also about human nature. I do think that sometimes there are different collecting philosophies at play that may seem to be conflicting -- not just about originality.

It seems to me that Tom is very fortunate to be in a position to purchase a gun like this, and that he has some soul searching to do to be able to decide exactly what his priorities are in getting a high grade Parker. It's a wonderful dilemma.

Tom, let us see what you decide upon!


I agree Garry.....Additionally, I would love to see what the steel barrels look like mounted on this gun!

[Tom Flanigan]

I will post my decision. Thanks to all. Wonderful forum!

[allen newell]

the engraving on this gun speaks to me like William Harden Foster's book, 'New England Grouse Shooting'

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

The engraving is over the top, Very nice piece if you like it buy it! I have passed on many guns I should have bought! Gary

[Larry Frey]

Tom,
I would have replied to your post earlier but I just returned from a few days in New Brunswick with my Brittany and some Parker guys chasing grouse and woodcock. The gun you are looking at is mine and I would be happy to answer any questions I can for you. Send me a PM with your contact info and a good time to contact you and I will give you a call. Here is an old thread from the archive section of this site from back when I first acquired the gun. http://parkerguns.org/archive/parkergun/forums/forum1/6990.html

[Tom Flanigan]

Thanks Larry. I was told in a private PM that you once owned the gun. I responded that you having owned it lent credibility to the gun. I didn’t know you still owned it. I’m sure the gun is right. I'm trying to decide among three high grades I am looking at. Although the engraving is the best I have ever seen on an AHE, the pad is causing some pause. I prefer a skeleton butt on high grade guns. But I am still leaning toward your gun. I’ll make a decision shortly. I appreciate your response. Thank you.

I have fished for Atlantic Salmon in Doaktown, New Brunswick. A New Brunswick friend’s uncle owns a house on the river and has riparian rights. I usually fish in the morning and hunt grouse and woodcock across the river in the afternoon. Wonderful cover and a lot of birds. Although he doesn’t hunt, I take my friend Sandy with me because he holds a guide license. New Brunswick requires a guide for non residents so that the license holding locals have a source of income.

[Larry Frey]

Tom,
We always stop at Doaks Fly Shop on the way to Miramichi Northwest Lodge. The camp is on the northwest branch of the Miramichi. This is the tenth year in a row we have made the trip and its always very enjoyable.

[Tom Flanigan]

I’ve been to that fly shop many times. The area of the MIramichi I fished was about two miles before the bridge which is just past the shop. In the afternoon, I’d carry my setter across the river, remove my waders and hunt grouse and woodcock. My buddy Sandy carried my gun across. The cover there was excellent and there was always a lot of birds. There were ducks there in a slough but I was always too busy with the birds to give them much attention. I’m sure you visited the Salmon Museum in Doaktown. Great place to spend some time. I used a Leonard light salmon 8 wt. cane rod for the salmon.