Steel Shot Specials

[Stephen Hodges]

Were Steel Shot Specials marked as so?

[Bob Jurewicz]

Marked SS 00xxx on the water table.
Bob Jurewicz

[Greg Baehman]

The Parker Story reported that the SSS was identified, as Bob said, with 'SS" as part of the S/N on the water table. In addition to the "12SS-00xxx" on the water table, the SSS that I once owned also had the same identifying stamps on the barrel flats and forend iron.

[John Allen]

Only the steel shot specials sold through Dunns were marked SS.Parker Repro liked the idea so well they made a run of them after we sold off the guns from Dunns.I do not know how many Parker Repro built,but there were 360 SS marked guns.

[Stephen Hodges]

Thanks all. Yes, this gun is marked SS on the watertable.

[Greg Baehman]

John, as has been reported and discussed previously here on the forum that the Steel Shot Specials had chrome lining through the choke area, but non-SSS standard DHEs did not.

There are some questions that I and others that either own or have owned a SSS continue to have . . . The Parker Story reported that when you were developing the SSS it was found that optimum steel shot patterns were obtained with a bore diameter of .740 and IC/M chokes at .006/.018. It was also reported that the frames were "strengthened". These specs reported in TPS seems to vary from what owners of SSSs report, such as ~.735 bores vs. .740, ~.011 Modified choking vs. .018. And we're scratching our heads about the "strengthened" frames. If you could address these variations it would be greatly appreciated in clearing up and removing some of the mystique surrounding these great guns.

[John Allen]

The strenghtened frames was something that was discussed but was never acted upon to my knowledge.At the time everyone was freaking out over steel shot damaging their guns.Going to a #2 frame was talked about but was too expensive to implement.As to the bore diameter,the guns were specified at .740.My #26 gun which is the prototype steel shot has a .740"bore diameter and is choked .006" and .018".Variations from that would have to be factory deviations.Remember,these guns were ordered kind of on the fly.Parker Repro was bringing out a 12 and the steel shot law went into effect.We were working fast to get out a usable double gun for steel.I ordered the guns to match my gun.I did not have time to measure and check each gun as they came in.It is possible that as they learned more about steel shot the factory reduced the choke as they learned that less choke constriction was needed with steel.I have seen guns choked like mine and those with more open chokes.The same with bore diameters.

[George M. Purtill]

Steve- The SSS is a great gun. Get it. Or let me buy it!!

[Stephen Hodges]

This one is marked IC/Mod

[John Allen]

That is the way they were marked.What makes it a steel shot special is 28" barrels,3" chambers,and IC/Mod chokes.When Parker Repro planned to introduce the 12 gauge gun, all 28" guns were to be 3" with mod and full chokes and 26" guns were 23/4"with IC/Mod or Q!/Q2 chokes.We talked them into building the steel shot guns exclusively for the Jaeger division of Dunns.We ordered 350 of them and they shipped 360.I am sure they pulled standard 12s of off the line and opened the chokes.The original order guns had serial numbers 12SS-xxxx.My #26 is not marked that way because it was the prototype.We only requested the special SS mark to set our guns apart from standard production guns.

[Gary Laudermilch]

This whole discussion, while very interesting, confuses the heck out of me.

Mr. Allen how do you suppose or explain a 12 ga two barrel set where the 26" barrels are marked 3" chambers? The 28" barrels are also 3" and stamped IC/Mod but measure .006 & .012 which would suggest it is a SSS without the SS serial number marking. I do not really care if it is an official SSS but am curious as to how it came to exist.

[John Allen]

I am sure that Parker Repro did make some custom guns or some guns that did not follow their plan.What I was refering to was their initial roll out of the 12 gauge guns.It was their plan to make 26" open choked guns and 28" tight choked guns.When we talked them into building the SS guns they may have decided to experiment on their own.As I said earlier, Parker Repro made their own run of steel shot guns and did not mark them SS.

[Bob Jurewicz]

This one appears to be very very early production.

https://images.gunsinternational.com/listings_sub/acc_78850/gi_101099470/PARKER-WINCHESTER-REPRODUCTION_101099470_78850_DB9762D937DA6FCF1.jpg

[Greg Baehman]

To my way of thinking a standard 12-ga. Repro w/28" bbls., having 3" chambers and choked IC/M is not a Steel Shot Special unless it also has "SS" factory stamped as part of the serial number and the choke area is chrome lined. You're free to come up with a looser definition if you'd like, but that's mine.

"It's the itty-bitty details that make the big-big difference."

[George M. Purtill]

I agree with Greg. To me its like the Parker Skeet gun. There are many pre-Remington skeet kinda configured guns but the only true skeet guns were marketed and built by Remington.

[George M. Purtill]

This one appears to be very very early production.

https://images.gunsinternational.com/listings_sub/acc_78850/gi_101099470/PARKER-WINCHESTER-REPRODUCTION_101099470_78850_DB9762D937DA6FCF1.jpg

Bob-I don't think so. John Allen has the first at #26. I have #12SS-0029

[Bob Jurewicz]

From the info posted on the Serial Numbers of SSS guns it just dawned on me that they were numbered separate from the general run of 12 GA guns.
A new light goes on!
Bob Jurewicz

[John Allen]

Bob,I do not think that they were numbered separately other than the 12SS prefix.When we placed the order for the 350 steel shot special guns they did not come in all at once.Nor did they reserve a block of serial numbers for these guns.We got them in batches of 25 to 50 guns at the time.I may be wrong on this,but I think you will find SS marked guns all through the first 2 years of 12 gauge production.

[Greg Baehman]

This should be easy . . . Has anyone seen or know of a bona fide Steel Shot Special with a serial number higher than 12SS-00350? If so, what is that gun's serial number and can you verify it with pics?

[Scot Cardillo]

Bob,I do not think that they were numbered separately other than the 12SS prefix.When we placed the order for the 350 steel shot special guns they did not come in all at once.Nor did they reserve a block of serial numbers for these guns.We got them in batches of 25 to 50 guns at the time.I may be wrong on this,but I think you will find SS marked guns all through the first 2 years of 12 gauge production.

John - are you sure the SSS didn't receive its own numbering scheme?

Here's why I ask..

[John Allen]

I do not think they had a separate scheme for the SS guns.I am sure they already had 28" 12ga.guns in the production line when we sent in the order.They just added 12SS to the watertable and changed the chokes on guns already in process.Remember,this was at a time when Parker Repro and Dunns were trying to react to changes in the market place.They were not worried about building collectible guns or being totally consistent.They just wanted to get the product out of the factory and into the customers hands.If you have ever worked in manufacturing,when the boss says "get it shipped"that is usually what happens.

[George M. Purtill]

John - are you sure the SSS didn't receive its own numbering scheme?

Here's why I ask..

Nice job Scot. Very nice job. Pictures don't lie.....

[John Allen]

Dunn's did not specify a special number other than the 12SS prefix.I don't know what the Japanese did for their own internal control or what Parker Repro may have done.Maybe you should ask one of the Skeuse family if they know.

[Charles Shelton]

Thanks to John and all,
John Allen said "Only the steel shot specials sold through Dunns were marked SS.Parker Repro liked the idea so well they made a run of them after we sold off the guns from Dunns."
He also said "What makes it a steel shot special is 28" barrels,3" chambers,and IC/Mod chokes."
It was also mentioned that the barrels and chokes were chrome lined.

However, some folks say that a Repro Parker 12 that meets the above technical specs but does not have SS stamped on it is not a SSS.

Could it be that there is a cachet associated with the Dunns SSS guns that is not associated with SSS not marked for Dunns?

fwiiw, My Repro 12 on a 1 1/2 frame meets all the technical specs of a SSS but does not have SS stamped on the water table. Rather it reads "12-01294" with DHE centered above.

This has finally settled the matter for me and from now on I will know that an owner of a Parker repro 12 with SS on the water table has a Dunns SSS and has reason to be proud of it.
I like my SSS also and will not sell it, but pass it along with all my Parkers on to my son who probably will not care about SSS so long as it continues to shoot where aimed.

[John Allen]

The only thing special about the SS marked guns is that they were the first doubles to hit the market that were guaranteed for steel shot.I think of them as a special commerative run.Those that are not marked SS are just as good and just as valuable.I own #12-0026.It was the prototype gun for the steel shot program and the first 12 to come off of the line.It is not marked SS,but it is still a steel shot special and I have shot thousands of round through it.

[Charles Shelton]

Thank you John. May you shoot many thousands more.
I will sleep better tonight.

[jerry serie]

Irrespective of the SS markings, I'm curious how many of the 350 designated SS guns sold by Dunns were configured DT, St. grip, Splinter FE; or DT, Pistol grip, BT FE; or ST, St grip, BT FE; or ST, Pistol grip, Splinter FE; or ST, Pistol grip, BT FE; or ST, St grip, Splinter FE; or ST, St grip, BT FE. I realize this is a bit confusing and likely more detail than is actually available. Or, maybe John Allen can give us a rough estimate (e.g. most common to least common).

[John Allen]

We tried to split it up as evenly as possible with each option.It did not work out exactly,but it was close.We placed the orders in lots of 25.We would try to go 50%beavertai to splinter and the same with pistol grip to straight grip.There were more single trigger guns than double because these were duck guns.The most popular configuration was pistol grip,beavertail,and single trigger. The scarcest is the pistol grip,beavertail,double trigger.

[jerry serie]

Many Thanks John, the timing of these SS guns was very fortunate since I was shooting an early steel barreled 1899 VH Parker prior to mandated non-toxic shot requirement. Also, my SS has worked well on pheasants and sharptails. Best...

[Bill Murphy]

My "SSS" configured 12 is a 28" IC & M, DT, splinter, straight grip, with no SSS markings. It is a very scarce configuration and I am just as happy to not have the SSS markings since I will never shoot steel in it. John Allen and Dunn's added so much to what the Skeuse family was doing. Too bad that Galazan, Griffin and Howe, and some other marketers of great guns didn't get involved.

[Greg Baehman]

The Central Wisconsin Skeet League, in which I participate, schedules a 5-Man Team event once per year. About 3 or 4 years ago we fielded a team of shooters all shooting 12-ga. Repros. I was shooting a Sporting Clays Classic model and the other four shooters were shooting their DHE Repros -- all with 28" bbls., 3" chambers, factory choked IC/M, SG, SPL & DT -- none had the SS stamps.

They may be scarce, but they seem plentiful around here.

[Gerry Addison]

I believe I read somewhere that the SSS guns had chokes that were longer than the normal chokes. Anyone else remember reading that? May have been in one of the sales brochures. Said it made the steel shot pattern better I believe.

[John Allen]

To my knowledge the choke length was standard.The constriction was where the difference was.

[Greg Baehman]

Gerry, I also recall reading (on this forum and maybe elsewhere) that the geometry was a little different with the SSS guns than the non-SSS marked guns. (See Scot's comments regarding choke geometry on pg. 3 of this thread: http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=22914 )

John, take a look at what you wrote on pg. 4 regarding the choke geometry in the above referenced thread.

[Herb Hewlett]

How would a laymen know if he has an unmarked 12 ga ss?Is any 28"brl.,3" chambered repro a steel shot? If so are the values higher?

[Scot Cardillo]

How would a laymen know if he has an unmarked 12 ga ss?Is any 28"brl.,3" chambered repro a steel shot? If so are the values higher?

28" barrels choked IC/MOD would be akin to a Steel Shot Spec, Herb. Now of course that doesn't take into account that the geometry of the chokes between a D-grade and a SSS may very well be different..mine are.

[Greg Baehman]

How would a laymen know if he has an unmarked 12 ga ss?Is any 28"brl.,3" chambered repro a steel shot? If so are the values higher?

Is your gun factory choked IC/M or M/F?

If IC/M, you can say "it's just like a SSS, but it doesn't have the SS stamps, lacks the chrome lined choke area, nor does it have the same choke geometry of a bonafide SSS". If M/F, then it's a standard DHE.

IMHO, a bonafide SSS with the SS stamps, chrome lined choke area and choke geometry will command a premium over a standard DHE version.