Dean Romig please check in

[Pete Lester]

Given the events in Andover, N. Andover and Lawrence MA right now could you please check in and let us know you are OK.

[Rick Losey]

wow what a mess

the map i can find looks like it is north of him

https://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2018/09/mass_state_police_map_shows_lo.html

[Daniel Carter]

He is ok,i asked if he was in that area and he is but will lose electricity and is going to his wife sister-in-laws house.

[Mills Morrison]

Whoa, whoa. What happened?

[Dean Romig]

Hi All... :bigbye:

We’re OK - yes it is all about two miles north of us. We’re serviced by the culprit Columbia Gas Co. but I shut off the gas at the meter outside of my house.

There were about 70 explosions and fires in homes and multi-family houses and those folks are in need of assistance.

Fortunately there were no deaths and very few injuries.

Thanks for your concern.
Dean & Kathy... and Grace

[Greg Baehman]

Whoa, whoa. What happened?
https://www-cbsnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/lawrence-ma-fire-gas-explosion-suspected-2018-09-13-live-updates/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.goo gle.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbsnews.com%2Fnews%2Fla wrence-ma-fire-gas-explosion-suspected-2018-09-13-live-updates%2F

[Daniel Carter]

Mills click on the news item in the second post, 70 buildings have been burned or blown up by what is thought to be over pressure in the natural gas lines in 3 towns. It is random and spread over a large area.

[Mills Morrison]

I saw. Bad stuff

[Brian Dudley]

Wild stuff! You just never know what can happen.

[keavin nelson]

The NE enjoys not only having old guns, but old everything else, including gas lines. Good to hear you are well Dean!

[Todd Poer]

Lets see we got a hurricane, now wacky gas explosions in an unexpected place and time, what is next. As the cajuns say Gri Gri happens in threes.

Dean glad you and family are hopefully okay. Typically pressures on gas lines is no more than 2 to 5 psi, to get a spike like that to cause that many widespread occurrences is a huge failure in the system. Should not of happened.

[Dean Romig]

We’re fine thank-you. We spent the night in our home even though residents with Columbia Gas service were advised to to evacuate their homes. My gas is still shut off at the feed into my house and I’ll be taking a cold shower this morning.

“Should not have happened.” goes without saying...





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[Todd Poer]

Glad to hear it. They say cold showers are healthier for you anyway. You don't use as much water, healthier for your skin, and all that shivering helps you lose weight. Oh if you weren't awake before, you will be.

[Mills Morrison]

Our office handled two gas explosion cases about 10 years ago and it killed any desire I had to own a gas stove. The people injured would have been better off dying.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks for the encouraging words Mills...:rotf:





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[Mills Morrison]

Didn't mean to be too negative. Glad you are ok. Consider going electric

[Dean Romig]

Electric and oil are a lot easier to do in the more southern climes but here in the Northeast where we like to keep our homes somewhat comfortable in the colder monthe (Oct -April) natural gas is far more wallet-friendly.





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[Todd Poer]

Agree heat pumps just don't work well when it gets to around freezing and when the heat strips have to kick in. Very inefficient and costly and essentially hot coil filament. If you get prolonged days that hover at freezing and below and house not insulated well, vast majority aren't, and your utility bill can become ludicrous but quick. Btw heat pumps do work very well in South. Since live in Atlanta vast majority of people have dual systems and they work very well.

You just have to be smart about natural gas but it is a great efficient and economical resource. There is risk with everything. Everytime you get in a car to drive around the corner to get a gallon of milk your more likely to be killed or maimed then have a natural gas explosion. I dare say for what happened in Deans area there will be some gross negligence uncovered, there is no way this ends well for Columbia.

[Dean Romig]

.....and every time I shoot one of those dangerous Damascus barreled old guns.





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[Richard Flanders]

I am very much looking forward to hearing the reason why the gas pressure spiked and of where exactly the system failures in the houses were from the over pressure. I would think that the weakest point in a gas system would be in the thin brass pressure tubes in gauges, and especially in gauges for pressure that low, but, having never lived in a house with gas, don't even know if there are system gauges in the houses. Or perhaps the pressure spike blew out pilot lights? I'm not getting this whole thing just yet.

[Dean Romig]

We have no answers yet.

I hope we get a credible story when they decide to “placate the masses.”






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[Todd Poer]

It is hard to say individually where a leak happens in a residence that is why the pressures are supposed to be so low. It takes a lot of gas in a confined area to build up cause an explosion. Most of the time even if there is major break in a line the pressure is so low at 2 psi that the gas dissipates before it becomes bad enough to blow up or cause a fire and you smell it easily.

Natural gas can also have a lot of moisture in it but it takes a long long time to rust out the pipe. Most of the time where I have seen issues is around the joints and fittings that is generally first failure point. Sometimes the pipe compound they put there will get old, brittle and crack and a sustained pressure spike would fail at those points badly.

Thank goodness hopefully no one was killed or injured. I got a feeling before service is restored your going to get a lot of info. One thing I would do is go and shut off all the valves you have in the house past the main shut off at the meter and to the furnaces. When they say you can turn on it on again test every joint you can in between with spray bottle that has some water and liquid soap in it like your making bubbles with your kids and grand kids and look for bubbles emerging. As you get past each section then and its okay then open valves and test next parts past that. It could be leaking and you not even smell it, but this test will show the leaks. Though have a feeling they are going to make that gas pretty stinky as a precaution for people and detectors to pick up the smell if there are leaks.

Another bad spot are the flexible lines that have all those ridges and those are used at connections generally to furnaces and appliances. They can look totally fine but moisture can collect there and rust those out in the interior of flexible pipe so definitely spray those down with soapy water. I do once a year. They say your supposed to replace those lines about every 7 to 10 years, but no one does until they have a problem.

You'll probably be fine but at least the soapy water test will give you peace of mind.

[Daryl Corona]

Glad you are safe Dean and family. I've been working on commercial gas appliances for close to 40 years and can't fathom what would cause such a problem. I deal in inches of water column instead of PSI and either way it is very low at 3-5 PSI at the gas valve using what's known as a manometer. It could be as high as 7-10 inches of H2O on the supply line. All appliances have a pressure regulator installed in line upstream of the unit and if I'm not mistaken the meter on my home has a pressure regulator. Obviously the pressure has to be greater for delivery then reduced into the home.
Either way it will be interesting to see what they say caused the problem.

[allen newell]

I heard that the gas company was in the process of upgrading the system and a high pressure line may have been crossed with a low pressure line thus over pressuring the system.

[Dean Romig]

One 18 year-old boy was sitting in his car in his driveway with a couple of friends. His mother went in the house to start cooking supper. BOOM the house blew up and the brick and mortar double-flu chimney fell over on his car killing him.
There are more than a dozen victims who have been treated at Lawrence General Hospital and a few of them are still there.
A husband and wife were med-evaced to Boston in critical condition.
There are probably a lot more folks who have refused treatment but who were injured.

Todd - all that advice wasn't directed at me was it?





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[Todd Poer]

Dean I never sell a man short. For all I know your a master plumber in your spare time to go along with other talents. Nope to much respect for you to think your incapable of anything, just sharing my general knowledge from messing with that stuff for a while. That is why I purposely said what "I would do" and not what "You should do". You are your own man.

BTW had a gas leak two months ago that was a result from some work done to gas lines 5 years ago in the house. It was at a fitting on elbow joint where pipe compound had become dried and brittle. Turns out plumber used the cheap stuff. Had to find leak using soapy water and after that just checked every joint and flexible hose in the house to be sure no more leaks. 10 years ago had a flexible gas line start to leak, soapy water.

I do know this though, people sometimes have a stigma or phobia on natural gas especially after disasters and crazy occurrences like what your facing. I know very capable men that are DIY kings that won't even blink at gas leak problems but just call someone to fix it and have been around natural gas their entire lives. Got family in New Orleans that had simple gas leak after Katrina, there was no one to help and father in law even in insurance business could could not get someone there in less than a week. Was able to find the leak using simple soap water test and it was simple fix. They did not have much a for a while but they were at least not inconvenienced from not having hot water.

Just read where they asked Columbia to step out and that another competing gas company is stepping in to handle situation. That's not good for Columbia but at this point who cares.

Good luck and hope you don't get used to cold showers.

[Daryl Corona]

The old soap and water bubble trick is fine but their are commercial products that actually are better. The problem is you have to find the leak to use the solution. Your nose is your best detector of a gas leak. Natural gas is odorless and a chemical Mercaptan is added which gives it that distinctive odor. If you smell it get out and don't bother to look for a leak.

[Todd Poer]

That is probably wise advice.

[Dean Romig]

After I brought gas into the house about 6 years ago I decided to get the plumber back in to run a line to the grill on my deck. That all went well and then I was working on building my new gun room and I called him back to run another line so I could have a gas heater in the gun room. He always tested everything with soapy water and pronounced it fine so I began sheet-rocking the room. I never disturbed any of the gas pipes but the next morning when I went to continue working on the room I smelled the very faint smell of gas... or else a mouse had died in a wall...
Anyway, I called the plumber back and he couldn't smell it. He called his younger helper in and he thought he could detect a faint smell.

They spent the next hour looking for a single tiny bubble in one of the three joints they had installed... but there it was - a 1/8" bubble would show about every three or four minutes.

Problem solved. I have a very sensitive nose for such things and I don't thing a gas leak would ever get by me.




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[Frank Cronin]

The NE enjoys not only having old guns, but old everything else, including gas lines. Good to hear you are well Dean!

In the town of Lexington, MA a colonial town famous during the Revolutionary War, there are still remnants of wood water / drainage plumbing underground.

[Frank Cronin]

Glad you and Kathy are okay. Watching the news the other night was just so surreal and unbelievable. I was talking to someone at my club today and said the electricity was still shut off in the areas affected. Do you have any power at your home Dean?

[Stephen Hodges]

Glad also that you guys were not directly affected. And glad that a Massachusetts State Trooper flying over the area taking infrared photos noticed an anomaly and it turned out to be another major gas leak below the sidewalk. Probably saved many lives.

[Mike Poindexter]

For what its worth, the natural gas into my meter through a 1 inch yellow corrugated underground line is at 6 psi, they tell me. There is a diaphragm pressure regulator that is about 7 inches in diameter and 1 inch thick that adjusts it down before it goes into the meter and then the house. The Public Service gas guy says that they normally set the regulated pressure into the house at .5 psi, but in all-gas homes they can set it as high as 2 psi. My oven is electric, but my cooktop is gas, my boiler is gas, my dryer is gas, my water heater is a sidearm off the boiler, my garage heater is gas, and my three fireplaces are gas inserts. I need the 2 psi. Gas service so far has never been interrupted, unlike electricity which goes out occasionally. If the pressure ever spikes enough to blow out the regulator, then I'm SOL. If a forest fire comes through, hopefully I wont be here when the meter blows. Wonder if they shut off the gas to an area when a forest fire is imminent? Glad you dodged the bullet, Dean.

[Dean Romig]

I hope they’re not still in use....:eek:






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[Richard Flanders]

At some point someone will get some house appliances that are leaking repaired and then will know what exactly is failing. A leak under a sidewalk is not going to fill a house with gas and blow it up. Even if the leak breached the ground you could light it and it would just cause a flare; it wouldn't explode as long as the line is pressurized. Something inside the houses is failing, something in the appliance; just not sure what. could be a regulator or a gauge. Something. "Old lines" are still going to be iron pipe so can take a LOT of pressure. Unless they fail inside a house, which is very unlikely, they would not cause a problem to a house. All my furnace work has been with oil units so I'm not familiar with gas hookups. I can only imagine that the 'overpressure' was one hell of an overpressure to have caused all this trouble. All of these things have safeties too; if the pilot light goes out a sensor cools and the gas feed is shut off. Perhaps that shutoff is a flimsy unit and gets blown out somehow. I'm really curious and hope that all the gritty details are eventually revealed on this screwup.

On a side note; The buried 10/8-inch stout steel pipeline up here that feeds the 14,700HP Rolls Royce turbine engines that turn the pumps at the first four pump stations along the Trans Alaska oil pipeline operates at 1090psi for 149 miles and feeds 3 pumps. Each turbine eats up 4.3million cu ft of gas per day. They've been running for over 40yrs and have never been replaced or rebuilt and the buried gas line has never suffered a failure.

I like Deans 'good nose' story. Don't ever ignore your nose on that one! I sat up in bed a few wks ago at 0400 and noticed a faint diesel smell. I shot up and went into the basement, two stories down, and had a internally defective and leaking low-pressure gauge I had put on to test the line pressure to my monitor heater. Thanks Beijing. What a mess. I had to pull a sheet of CDX plywood paneling off the wall(screwed on fortunately), cut 2ft off the bottom and replace it as it was soaked with diesel fuel. The concrete floor and some of a block wall got several scrubbings over several days with boiling water and a combination of Dawn dish soap, Oxi clean, and an industrial engine degreaser before the odor abated. I never ignore my nose. I can't tell you how many times I've awaken in the middle of the night and smelled something that just wasn't right, and not once have I done this and not found an issue. An iron pan left on the gas range on low and burning dry, or on the wood stove, or the wood stove overheating. Once my roof in a small remote cabin was smouldering from dripping creosote and about to burst into flames. That woulda been fun, I can tell you. Had I waited 30 more minutes to wake up it would likely have been to a blazing roof 3ft above my face.

I guess the lesson is: If something doesn't smell right, there's a problem.

[Dean Romig]

I had no idea the pipeline operated under such extreme pressure. What is the i.d. of that 145 mile length of pipe?.... and is the oil heated in order to facilitate an easier flow?





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[Richard Flanders]

The small gas line starts at 10" in Prudhoe at PS1, necks down to 8" after 34mi and terminates at PS4 149mi south of Prudhoe. I corrected the pressure; it operates at 1090psi and has a design max of 1335psi. And the turbines driving the pumps use 4.3mcf/day, not 2.8. The oil pipeline is 48" in diameter and operates at up to the design max of 1180psi. The oil is injected in Prudhoe at 116degF and is 66degF when it reaches Valdez after 8.6days en route at 3.9mph. Pipeline friction, which is controlled by injecting a polymer drag reducing agent, keeps it warm; not sure if they warm it prior to injection into the line. When full, the line holds 9,059,057 bbls of oil. The maximum avg daily throughput for the line was in 1988 when just over 2mill bbl/day were transported. Today it's down around 600,000 bbl/day, though some recent major discoveries on the slope will be ramping that back up significantly and will, despite the dire predictions for at least 25yrs of the impending death of the pipeline due to a lack of supply, keep it going for a very long time.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks Richard - excellent information!





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