S&W S/S shotguns

[Richard Flanders]

Anyone have any experience with the S/S's that S&W is making?/selling or know anything about them? Am inquiring for a friend who is considering one.

[Kirk Potter]

I’ve heard nothing bad from the couple people I know who own one, and they seem like a pretty good value. The exact same gun is/was? sold by Cabelas under the name Dickinson. They’re Turkish built and whatever company that wants can just slap their name on them. They were sold for a while as Webley and Scott too.

[Rick Riddell]

They are AKUS guns from Turkey, one of the better outfits over there!

[Greg Baehman]

As Kirk and Rick have said, the S&W Gold Elite was made by Akus in Turkey, Cabela's and a few others are now marketing them under the Dickinson Estate name. I often dreamt of owning a Parker Bros. DHE .410, but it wasn't in the budget for a gun that was going to see limited usage, so instead I bought a Dickinson Estate in .410 from Cabela's and am happy as a clam with my purchase. The Dickinson Estate and the S&W Gold Elite are made in the same factory to the same specs and are virtually identical with only a slight variation in the engraving pattern. To reuse some overused terminology -- they are a lot of gun for the money. Where else can you buy a gun that has a true trigger plate rounded action, platform lump barrels, brazed ribs, chrome lined bores, Southgate ejectors, true bone & charcoal case coloring, Turkish walnut wood, 24 lpi hand checkering, hand engraved (their description-not mine) and a lifetime warranty for under $1700 when new?

Having said the above, there have been several reports of heavy trigger pulls with the early guns, but more recently they have been lightened from the factory to a more acceptable ~ 5lb. pull weight. Also the early renditions had a high gloss finish applied to the wood that was highly susceptible in showing scratches, Cabela's recent offerings are oil finished to alleviate the issue.

Dickinson Estate .410

[Dave Noreen]

The exact same gun is/was? sold by Cabelas under the name Dickinson. They’re Turkish built and whatever company that wants can just slap their name on them. They were sold for a while as Webley and Scott too.

They are AKUS guns from Turkey,

So Turkey is our new Crescent Fire Arms Co.

[Todd Poer]

The Turkish gun industry is an interesting case study. Lots to debate. They have some of the best walnut for gunstocks in the world and a motivated low cost work force that can produce guns at lower price point using some of the latest gun making technology and machinery.

Handled a few S&W and they are nice guns and I think they are the base for Dickinson guns. However buying a S&W one of them would be like buying a Ruger Gold Label SxS. If you have issues with the gun just try and call S&W or Ruger. You will get a polite AMF-YOYO statement. BTW AMFYOYO stands for "Adios Mutha ------ Your On Your Own"

Several years ago an American startup of Hatfield had a high quality boxlock sxs made at Huglu where Dehaan, CZ, Kimber and some others had guns made that came from same factory. It was about a $2k gun. Remember seeing a video test of gun on their website showing gun broken down before, during and after them shooting that gun some 20,000 times straight in a 24 hour period. Gun would get so hot after about every few hundred rounds when swapping shooters they would drop gun in a barrel of water to cool it off. Then keep on shooting. After all that they then tore down gun and compared everything and looked closely at all the components including stock, fore-end, latches, actions, firing pins, safety, and most importantly the chrome lined barrels and found little noticeable wear. They put it back together and then did the same thing again firing almost 40k rounds in two days with no reported issues. I thought it pretty gutsy demonstration and thought about getting one until company went belly up, but it did give me confidence in Dehaan and CZ guns. I know Kimber had some issues at first with their venture but understood they got it worked out with guns but they just never took off.

[Mark Ray]

I have been shooting a Mark DeHaan Custom .410 for thirteen years now. These guns were built in the Huglu custom shop, and the wood is screaming good, and with a SSBP! I put about four flats a year through it, and it has never missed a beat!

[Mark Ray]

I have been shooting a Mark DeHaan Custom .410 for thirteen years now. These guns were built in the Huglu custom shop, and the wood is screaming good, and with a SSBP! I put about four flats a year through it, and it has never missed a beat!

Here she is after doin her job one day last fall!

[charlie cleveland]

sounds like a good gun for the money a nice gun too...charlie

[Rick Riddell]

So Turkey is our new Crescent Fire Arms Co.

It would appear so, too bad it isnt cost effective to do something like they do here in the states!

[Todd Poer]

Biggest hurdle. If you make more than $32k a year, congratulations that puts you in the top 1% club of global wage earners. Cost/Benefit analysis or so called Dollars and Sense calculation on a individual, micro and macro scale just doesn't compute.

Listen to anything Mike Rowe says and you can get a picture about challenges to our work force.

It is hard to go beyond much more to address other complex issues and challenges without getting into a political discussion so there I stop.

[John Dallas]

Does everyone else concur that the gun shown has "real bone and charcoal case hardening"?

[Todd Poer]

I think the true "bone and charcoal case hardening process" at the Huglu factory was an option for Dehaan and Kimber guns. I don't know if they all had it but know some did. Ordering a Dehaan was to some extent Au LaCarte menu on some features. Here is a Kimber that has it. I do know that even some of the CZ's had a hardening process that had a result of imitating the bone and charcoal look, but it wasn't the actual process.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/kimber-shotguns/kimber-valier-grade-ii-20-gauge.cfm?gun_id=101075729

Remember years ago RGS got a bunch of the Kimbers to auction off at banquets to generate some cash but had trouble getting rid of them. I think if you wanted a true sidelock that was made in last 15 years that would not break the bank and you got a lot of gun for the money, it would be hard not to look at em.

[John Dallas]

Whatever the process is, Kreighoff used it on my gun which was built about 10 years ago. Same process also used on my CSMC RBL. On the RBL, the finish began to flake off. CSMC made good on it. Appears to be some sort of painted on stuff

[Mark Ray]

My .410 DeHaan is case colored correctly. It is MUCH more muted than the subject gun, and is wearing in a burnishing manner like it is supposed to. When I ordered the gun from Mark, we spoke “ad nauseum” about every detail, including that I did not want the receiver varnished over the case colors as I didn’t want to see that flaking. The only thing I have done to this gun other than clean it is tighten the screws in the tang a couple of times, and they always snug up perfectly in time. The only slight criticism I have of my gun is the presence of the Huglu “screaming eagle” medallion in gold in the center of the SSBP. One of these days I am going to get an engraver to file it flat and put some interesting inscription there!

[kirbylawson]

I purchased from Cabelas the estate (boxlock) 410/28-Ga set and the Plantation sideplated version.
28-Ga. both with 28" barrels and double triggers, splinter, straight stock.
Both have performed flawlessly. Trigger pulls were 5-6# from factory.
Very light guns and a pleasure to carry all day.
Lots of fun for about $2k each.
-KL

[Richard Flanders]

Followup question. Do these Turkish S&W guns come with any cast to the stock? My friend is a lefty shooter, due to the loss of an eye as a teen, so it's an issue he has run into in the past with a factory Beretta.

[Todd Poer]

Richard I don't know about SW guns if they had a cast off for right handed shooters built in. Most of these guns I think are fairly neutral but that is definitely an important question. Personally I think gunfit is important if you have both eyes or only one. Not certain how cost effective to buy cheaper gun and then spend extra to steam fit the stock. Maybe able to find one already bent lefty. Here is one that is Cast On for lefty made by CZ. http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-southpaw-sterling/

I thought Barettas could be shimmed to support Cast On?

I shoot lefty as well but was made too since dad recognized as a kid I had an eye dominance issue same as he did. Its all I know even though I do lots of things right handed. I have never even tried to shoot righty. I would be having same issues as you learning to go right as you are shooting left now. Stay with it and keep focusing on moving gun with your waist instead of arms and it will come to you. It can be done.

A good friend of dads was an avid hunter that lost his right eye to cancer. He learned to shoot left handed and hunted with him for years with my dad. It was only time I can remember seeing three left handed shooters all hunting at same time. He had a glass eye but still wore glasses. I did not know he even had a glass eye for years until he told us. He was a go getter and figured it out. He did not let anything slow him down. He helped my dad build a barn and he was walking around on those loose trusses 20 feet off the ground with no harness like a circus performer. Remember asking him how he learned to shoot left and he said it took awhile but he had to focus on torso muscles and foot work to keep gun moving. He also had to really mentally prepare before each shot. He said after he got it worked out he shot better as lefty than he ever did as a righty.