Parker Skeet guns

[tim czarnick]

I can not find any information on skeet guns made by Parker. I have read about them on various gun selling sites but I can't find any information here.

[Brian Dudley]

A search of the forum topics for "Skeet Gun" turns up 20 pages. If you start looking through those, you are bound to find something of use to you.

Factory Skeet Guns are also covered in detail in the written works on Parkers, specifically The Parker Story.

[Bruce Day]

From the 1936 Remington Parker catalog , when the Parker Skeet Gun was first offered.

[Dean Romig]

As most everyone knows, the game of Skeet was developed in Andover, MA in the late teens into the twenties and was originally called "clock shooting". In 1926 William Harnden Foster, editor and publisher of The National Sportsman and Hunting and Fishing magazines put an ad for a contest for a new name for the game with a $100 prize to go to the person who sent in the name that would be chosen.

Parker (Remington Arms) finally adopted the name of "Skeet Gun" as Bruce points out, in 1936. But Parker Bros was producing Skeet configured guns well before '36 and there are several examples out there.

Refer to my article in the Autumn 2017 Issue of Parker Pages, "The Elliot's Twenty-bore Parker Bros. Skeet Gun" It was a DHE with 26" barrels, BTFE, SST, twin beads, and choked for Skeet targets. Certainly intentionally ordered for upland game as well as the game of Skeet - which the Elliot family excelled at. The serial number is 236162 which was made prior to Remington Arms purchase of the Parker Gun works.


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[Bruce Day]

Hundreds if not thousands of Parker skeet guns were made through the 60’s , 70’s and 80’s. A person could get one made today if wanted.

[Dean Romig]

I think what Bruce may be saying is that a true Parker Skeet Gun is one that was made under Remington's ownership and the chokes actually stamped "SKEET" on the barrel flats.





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[Mills Morrison]

My 28 gauge was probably made into a skeet gun after Remington closed. I know it was one of the Parkers used by Winchester Repeating Arms as a test gun so we are lucky any part of the gun exists at all.

[Rick Riddell]

Mills thats a pretty cool provenance for that gun!

[Scot Cardillo]

Some time back I acquired a 12ga Repro - dhe, pg, sst, btfe, 26”. Not a legit skeet gun but skeet configured (save chokes & midbead) nonetheless.

Let’s just say it was an unexpected eye-opener - I absolutely love the way the gun handles. Been studying the skeet guns ever since. A legit G grade skeet gun in nice honest condition would sure beat getting poked in the eyeball w/a stick!

[Dean Romig]

Or both eyes for that matter.





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[Todd Poer]

Dang so reading the other day one of main reasons that put market kibosh and proverbially nail in the coffin for the 16 gauge was rules for skeet shooting that eliminated that gauge as a category. So how rare would 16 gauge Parker skeet gun be? Noticed in Bruce's promo piece they advertised all the popular gauges 12 and below including 16.

[Bob Jurewicz]

20 GA Skeet Upgrade by DelGrego and Runge.
Bob Jurewicz

[Michael Moffa]

I used 239,7xx at the Georgia Parker Shoot. VHE, 12ga, 26, PG, Choked Skeet and Oh Sheet, BTFE, twin Ivory beads, 1 Frame, Pad. Hits em dead if you do your part.

[Dean Romig]

A 1-frame, really?

That's very unusual for a 12 ga. that late.





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[Todd Poer]

My dad has a 12 gauge VH that someone cut back the barrels to 26. It is a very nice shooter. Someone might have done it to make a skeet gun. Not sure what choke or any choke is in that gun but it sure is a game getter and clay buster. Its almost not sporting, with almost being operative word.

Mike I take it your gun also has single selective trigger.

Bob your gun is also a stunner and looks like a fun gun to have in the quiver.

[Stephen Hodges]

I read in the Parker Pages that the Skeet In/Skeet Out stamping on the barrel flats began in "about" 1937. So would a true factory skeet gun be made beginning in 1937 and would a letter supporting a true factory skeet gun mention the skeet choking?

[Dean Romig]

Maybe Steve, but maybe not. Remington didnt go to great lengths to record that sort of thing and it was in 1937 that the Parker operation was moved to Illion. Choke is rarely if ever recorded on the IBM cards used by Remington.





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[Stephen Hodges]

Thanks Dean. The reason I ask is because I have been looking at a "Skeet" Configured gun made in 1935. It has 26" barrels, single trigger, straight stock, and beavertail forend. And has a Parker Letter supporting all of this. But the original factory choking is not mentioned in the letter, and the barrel flats are stamped Skeet In/Skeet Out. The seller is selling it as a factory skeet gun. Oh, and it was re-finished by Larry D.

[Chad Hefflinger]

Dang so reading the other day one of main reasons that put market kibosh and proverbially nail in the coffin for the 16 gauge was rules for skeet shooting that eliminated that gauge as a category. So how rare would 16 gauge Parker skeet gun be? Noticed in Bruce's promo piece they advertised all the popular gauges 12 and below including 16.

I think the number of 16’s was just under 200 for all grades, and I know for sure where one of the VHE’s are at :whistle:

[Todd Poer]

I think the number of 16’s was just under 200 for all grades, and I know for sure where one of the VHE’s are at :whistle:

Nice!!. That would have to be an incredible upland gun. Btw I saw on Kevin's page a VHE Skeet gun 410. He had it listed at bargain price of $44,995.

https://www.kevinsguns.com/product-p/10014.htm

[Dean Romig]

Thanks Dean. The reason I ask is because I have been looking at a "Skeet" Configured gun made in 1935. It has 26" barrels, single trigger, straight stock, and beavertail forend. And has a Parker Letter supporting all of this. But the original factory choking is not mentioned in the letter, and the barrel flats are stamped Skeet In/Skeet Out. The seller is selling it as a factory skeet gun. Oh, and it was re-finished by Larry D.

Steve, any parker stamped “Skeet” refinished by Del Grego is questionable.
They upgraded a sizable number of Parkers to “Skeet” guns and many went from V grades to higher grades. Most of these guns had serial numbers only found in the “missing” books.
You are very fortunate that a research letter supports everything but the chokes.... but therein lies the big (?). There’s no way to prove it either way.

My personal opinion is that I wouldn’t pay a “Skeet Gun” price for it.

I once had the opportunity to buy a 20 gauge GHE “Skeet” configured gun from a guy at my club that I knew was a Del Grego gun, for $2K. I passed on it and a year or so later it appeared on the web page of a well-known dealer for $7500 and it didnt stay there long. Just saying - those guns are not for me.





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[Stephen Hodges]

Thanks Dean, I am going to pass on the gun. Good advise. :)

[Scot Cardillo]

Thanks Dean, I am going to pass on the gun. Good advise. :)

Steve - I think we've looked at (and considered) the same gun. As you stated, there's a letter, which is great, but! The choke markings showing, "skeet in/out" seem to have a different font than other pcs that appear to be the genuine article. Further, the gun has a pad. We don't get the benefit of a bare checkered butt to help with verification.

All said, if indeed we're referencing the same pc; it is a nice gun and does seem to be priced accordingly considering the uncertainty(s) that exist.

*caveat - please don't hold me to the assertion of a different font stamp b/c there's alot I don't know regarding variables over time as the guns were produced.

[Michael Moffa]

I rechecked my records and it looks like my memory is not what it used to be. It is a 1 1/2 frame with a single trigger.

[Stephen Hodges]

Steve - I think we've looked at (and considered) the same gun. As you stated, there's a letter, which is great, but! The choke markings showing, "skeet in/out" seem to have a different font than other pcs that appear to be the genuine article. Further, the gun has a pad. We don't get the benefit of a bare checkered butt to help with verification.

All said, if indeed we're referencing the same pc; it is a nice gun and does seem to be priced accordingly considering the uncertainty(s) that exist.

*caveat - please don't hold me to the assertion of a different font stamp b/c there's alot I don't know regarding variables over time as the guns were produced.

Scott, yes indeed the same gun. It is very nice and probably well worth the asking price just for the options, but when i purchase a "skeet" gun i want it to be right.

[Pete Lester]

Parker (Remington Arms) finally adopted the name of "Skeet Gun" as Bruce points out, in 1936. But Parker Bros was producing Skeet configured guns well before '36 and there are several examples out there.


Do you or anyone else know when Remington Arms started stamping the barrel flats with "Skeet In" and "Skeet Out"? I believe it was done in the years just before 1936.

[Stephen Hodges]

Pete, according to the Parker Pages sometime "about" 1937

[Pete Lester]

Pete, according to the Parker Pages sometime "about" 1937

As you know I have a 12ga GHE Skeet properly configured and stamped with no sign of ever being refinished/upgraded. Case exists in only protected areas, barrel bluing shows carry wear above the receiver. Scratches in stock finish. The letter on the gun says the following; the gun was begun in June 1934, shipped to the warehouse on January 13, 1935. It was shipped to a EC Palmer on March 23, 1936. It featured Parker Special Steel Barrels with a length of 26". It's stock configuration is straight grip. The Ledger records it having a Single trigger and Trap Model Forend.

It also has double ivory beads, manual safety, tightest choke by measurement and stamping in/on right barrel, checkered butt, barrel flats stamped "Skeet In" and "Skeet Out".

It is a transition gun as it has Parker Bros. on the top rib and Parker on the underside of the receiver.

Seems right as rain to me.

[Dean Romig]

I've seen the gun Pete.





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[Pete Lester]

I've seen the gun Pete.

I know it's been awhile, what is your judgement on it's originality as a "Skeet" gun?

[John Davis]

At one time I had a Parker (Remington) 20 ga. VHE skeet gun. Fortunately someone at the factory had written "Skeet gun" on the IBM card. Wish I still had that gun.

[Pete Lester]

I read in the Parker Pages that the Skeet In/Skeet Out stamping on the barrel flats began in "about" 1937. So would a true factory skeet gun be made beginning in 1937 and would a letter supporting a true factory skeet gun mention the skeet choking?

Remington Skeet Gun Advertisement including Parker Skeet Gun from 1935.

[Ken Hill]

Pete,

An interesting ad. A Parker Trojan was quite pricey compared to the other Remington offerings!

Ken

[Todd Poer]

I like the address printed on bottom right corner. Lyle Baker, RFD.

[Pete Lester]

Pete,

An interesting ad. A Parker Trojan was quite pricey compared to the other Remington offerings!

Ken

There is no Trojan in the ad that I can see. It says it can be had in all Parker grades except Trojan. I believe the $139.15 price is for a VHE Skeet, the "and up" would be higher grades (and maybe smaller bores?).

[Ken Hill]

Thanks Pete. I had to blow up the pic to read it better.

[Todd Poer]

Pete,

Was Mr. Baker of any kin to you?

[Pete Lester]

Pete,

Was Mr. Baker of any kin to you?

No he was not. I bought this advertisement off Ebay 8 or 9 years ago.

[Bill Murphy]

Steve, a PGCA letter that does not mention "skeet" does not mean that skeet chokes were not stamped in the stock book or, as John Davis mentions, scribbled on the IBM card. I would request another look at the stock books or IBM card before I passed on a Del Grego skeet gun.

[Bill Murphy]

Steve, maybe you could dig out that Parker Pages article that says that skeet guns were not stamped with skeet choke markings until 1937. I have two skeet marked guns made in February and September 1935 that have never seen the inside of Del Grego's shop. I think we can find others this early. Mine can't be the only two made before 1937 and stamped skeet.

[Todd Poer]

I agree Bill. Direct and circumstantial evidence points to guns maybe stamped with skeet chokes at the 1935 mark if not maybe some even in 1934. They may have had some in stock prior to 1935 as spec guns. Pete's marketing brochure is reportedly from 1935, so that would make sense as part of ramp up unless skeet guns were always a costumed ordered affair.

[Pete Lester]

I agree Bill. Direct and circumstantial evidence points to guns maybe stamped with skeet chokes at the 1935 mark if not maybe some even in 1934. They may have had some in stock prior to 1935 as spec guns. Pete's marketing brochure is reportedly from 1935, so that would make sense as part of ramp up unless skeet guns were always a costumed ordered affair.

I gave the details of the PGCA letter and my gun in an earlier post. It is stamped Skeet In and Skeet Out, it has no evidence of ever being refinished. I bought it from the grandson of the original owner who said his grandfather used it to hunt grouse until age 94. It has quite a bit of carry wear and very little mechanical wear which seems to go with what I was told.

Here is the back of that Remington Skeet Gun advertisement. There is a 6 35 in pencil in the upper right and the lower right it has 1935, American Medicinal Spirits Corp. There is also a 1935 in the address on the Remington Ad side.

[Chad Hefflinger]

Steve, maybe you could dig out that Parker Pages article that says that skeet guns were not stamped with skeet choke markings until 1937. I have two skeet marked guns made in February and September 1935 that have never seen the inside of Del Grego's shop. I think we can find others this early. Mine can't be the only two made before 1937 and stamped skeet.

My 16 gauge was made in 36 I believe, and is marked skeet in/out

[Bill Murphy]

We will never flush out all of the spuriously marked skeet guns, but we can start by identifying high condition guns with fresh colors, 28" barrels, checkered stock cheeks, and other signs of work by the shop that built the fakes. No big deal. They're still nice guns if you don't pay too much.

[Dean Romig]

Unfortunately the factory records are not available to the collecting public on the vast majority of those “fakes”. Consequently, unless a potential buyer knows exactly what to look for, a lot of folks could be burned.





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[Bill Murphy]

A Del Grego skeet conversion is a great gun and a good buy if you don't pay too much.

[Dean Romig]

I agree Bill and I emphasize your caveat.





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[Joe Graziano]

My VH was made into a skeet gun, probably in the ‘40’s. It has a replacement stock with modern dimensions and a beaver tail. I hate the look of the beaver tail forend but after shooting the gun, it is oh so sweet. It has 30 in barrels chokes Cyl/IC. It crushes them on skeet. I may make it my main skeet gun.

[Michael Murphy]

Todd, in an earlier post you mentioned that there is a theory that "Skeet"rules led to the demise of the 16ga. I believe that the 3" 20ga was probably more responsible. When that happened, you could get a lighter gun with the same payload by going to the 20ga.
The Skeet rules allow using a smaller gauge in larger guage competition, i.e., 16 or 20 gauge in 12 (ALL) gauge competition. During my active years in Skeet, many shooters used the 20ga. in 12ga. competition.

[Bill Murphy]

I have a wonderful cut 26" DHE, single trigger, beavertail, 207,000 series 12 gauge. The bores were enlarged to about .745 so some choke could be put back. Herschel advertised the gun as an original skeet gun. My friend was the station chief for we can guess who in Kabul at the time. He received the gun by diplomatic mail and immediately contacted HC to bring to his attention that it was nobody's skeet gun. I bought the gun years later along with a ream of letters back and forth, HC refusing to take the gun back. I also have the original ad and correspondence. He did offer to let my friend pick another gun, from Kabul. I promised myself I wouldn't tell this story until Herschel was dead. He's dead and I'm telling the story.

[Todd Poer]

Todd, in an earlier post you mentioned that there is a theory that "Skeet"rules led to the demise of the 16ga. I believe that the 3" 20ga was probably more responsible. When that happened, you could get a lighter gun with the same payload by going to the 20ga.
The Skeet rules allow using a smaller gauge in larger guage competition, i.e., 16 or 20 gauge in 12 (ALL) gauge competition. During my active years in Skeet, many shooters used the 20ga. in 12ga. competition.

There are probably lots of contributing factors as it is probably not just one thing, never is. The theory suggests when skeet classifications were being created they did a sort of drop 8 mentality. 12, 20, 28 and then 410(special class). As I understand it the 12 gauge is the anything goes highest limit gauge hierarchy open class, meaning no gauge bigger. Heck you can shoot any gauge lower in it if your that good, they may even let you shoot a .22 short gallery gun. I think at first people did shoot 16 gauge in the 12 category but hey perception was less shot in the pattern was a disadvantage so why do it if your seeking a competitive edge in competition. There just was no classification for 16 gauge and it got regulated to hunting gun category. You could not shoot a 16 gauge in the 20 gauge classification, so there is a void. Everyone completey forgets little Annie Oakley shooting 4,700 targets out of 5,000 with a pair of 16 gauge double barrels.


I think what you mentioned is that 20 gauge shooters thinking more shot in the pattern would be an advantage as it would like shooting a 16 gauge in the 20 gauge class with 3 inch shells. I don't think it works that way due to shot stringing, recoil management etc. etc. but that was perception. Essentially everyone just started being weened off the 16 gauge. I also think with game numbers down no real reason at all to shoot 10 gauges since it pretty much got left out of skeet all together hurt that type gun interest as well.

Hate to say it but I almost think sporting clays is probably a big contributing factor for the slide in sxs interest and I like sporting clays. Even have a Ruger 12 gauge sporting clays gun that I really like. I think sporting clays and so called push to O/U's with screw in chokes started the weening process in the late 80's and early 90's. It wasn't planned thing it just evolved.

[Bill Murphy]

Two points to add, or possibly contrast with, Todd's post. The NSSA World All-Bore (12 gauge) championship has been won with 16 and 20 gauge guns. You don't need a 12 gauge load to compete at the highest levels of skeet. The same event has been won with side by side guns when over unders and automatic shotguns were also competing. A significant number of NSSA competitors hold a higher average in 20 and 28 gauge competition than they hold in the 12 gauge event.