I. W. Laird & Co....20 Hammer..

[Jerry VanHorn]

I kind of rolled the dice on this one. Everything hinges on the bores. Rib is marked..J. W. Laird & Co....6 Bishopsgate St....Without London.. I don't have a clue as to what the "without" signifies. As far as I can determine..Manuf. date was about 1896..Fine damascus..28"..C/IC...Original straight grip wood is remarkable..and is 14 1/2 to grooved butt. I'm going to contact Kirk M. to see if he has time to check the barrels..Fingers crossed !

[John Campbell]

Mr. VanHorn:
A fine little 20-bore there! And it just might be by J. W. Laird & Co., Gunmakers, 6 Bishopsgate, Without London... per Nigel Brown's British Gunmakers Vol. I.

The "I" may just be an oddly engraved "J".

The "Without" reference means the actual location of the gun's build was Birmingham. As opposed to within London. Brown notes the Bishopsgate shop from 1889-96.

Kirk can certainly advise on the barrels. Also, the right firing pin head looks a bit mashed. Lock pins have been polished. Probably no worries, but I'd send the whole gun for inspection...

[Jerry VanHorn]

Mr.Rise..Thanks..I haven't found much on the maker. Found 2 other guns..a 410 hammer sold in the UK at auction..and a much later hammerless sidelock. I see what you mean about the firing pin..and your suggestion is probably best..I haven't seen many 20 hammer guns anywhere ,......so I thought I'd take a chance...

[Rich Anderson]

Small bore hammer guns are hard to find. If the barrels are sound I think you have found your self a very nice gun.

[Jerry VanHorn]

The barrels are going out in the AM..and new firing pins are going to be made. I talked with a man at Hill Rod and Gun..and he was nice enough to tell me a few pointers. I assumed that the 20 stamped inside a diamond on the flats was just the gauge..Seems that the UK used a system that used the original barrel measurements to mark the work. He said a 20 bore could be stamped with a 20..a 30..or even a 40. Each number has a figure to use in determining the wall thickness of THAT particular barrel mark...20..In this case.. he said the bores should measure between .615 and .626 measured 9" from the muzzle. Leave it to the Brits to complicate things !..So..I'll know soon enough..Like I said..Fingers crossed !..

[Rich Anderson]

Good luck with it. I'd sure like to see some more pics of it.

[Jerry VanHorn]

If the barrels are good..I'll have the checkering recut..if they're bad ??

[John Campbell]

Mr. VanHorn:
Your photos do not reveal much of the wood. But from what I can see, this stock may be due for a professional refinish. By an English trained stocker. And chequering recut by hand... not a machine!

Think positive thoughts on your barrels. They will likely be usable.

Kirk M. can advise on all this gun needs.

[Jerry VanHorn]

If the barrels are OK..then the checkering and refinish will be done as it should be. I will use Timberluxe for the finish. The wood has no repaired cracks..or serious defects. I have had the gun apart..and soaked the wood for days in acetone..then alcohol.. which removed all the oil soaking in the head. The head is sound..no repairs ever..It's a wonder the grooved butt has not been chipped since 1896. Chris Dawe did the recut and touch up on the Trojan 20 beavertail. Can't get much more professional than that. This is not a Purdey or H&H..so I think nicely refinished barrels...along with case coloring..will do what it deserves. All depends on the barrels..

[Dean Romig]

I don't know if this is strange or highly unusual but that incredibly talented engraver, Mr. Gough, sure seemed to get around - in England no less.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but that is a trademark running spaniel of Gough's design and execution, is it not?






.

[Jerry VanHorn]

Dean..You know WAY more about engraving than I do..or probably will !..Both locks are identical..I don't have a clue as to the engraver..Overall..the engaving is quite nice for this old gun, It went out this AM to have the barrels looked over..j.

[Jerry VanHorn]

Dean..A quick google search showed a Baker and an Ithaca with dogs that look very familiar ! The head seems to be exact..maybe so ??

[Jerry VanHorn]

Engraving followup..Dean R. sent me pics. of Harvey Brown's Grade 6 hammer. He said the the work on that gun and my Laird 20 were both by Harry Gough . He worked in the Birmingham trade..and was followed by his son William. I just looked at the AHE featured today..the dogs look like both guns.

[Dean Romig]

Okay, I'll have to qualify this.

The bottom of the frame of Harvey H. Brown's grade-6 T/A hammer gun.

.

[Jerry VanHorn]

Perhaps I wasn't completely clear..I mentioned the dogs on both guns..and even the birds ...look the same..As I qualified..Dean knows way more than I do about engraving..