16 Gauge Shells

[Joe Graziano]

Does anyone know of a good source, other than RST, for 16 gauge shells? I love RST but am looking for a less expensive source for target rounds.

Much thanks!

[Rick Losey]

https://polywad.com/vintager-shells

[Randy G Roberts]

Herters ammo through Cabela's seems to be popular but they are 2 3/4". You did not mention your chamber length. If it is 2 1/2" you might be stuck with RST or reloading unless some of the other members knows of a source. Check that wall thickness before using the modern ammo or any ammo for that matter.

[Joe Graziano]

I just noticed those as well. Reasonable at $7 per box. I’m going to have the gun checked including,of course, min wall thickness. The barrels are fluid steel, so it may be just fine. If it is, I may go with the Herters shells.

[William Davis]

Herters are probably the least expensive 16 G target shell. They have a bit to much recoil to suit my SXS Parkers & high volume targets though. Reload is a good option

William

[Russell E. Cleary]

We are not “stuck with RST or reloading” if looking for low pressure 2 ½" 16-gauge shells.

The link posted above to Polywad will lead you to a second source.

That company now offers a low-recoil 16-gauge Spreader load in 2 1/2". I believe that formerly the 2 1/2 " Spreader loads it produced were higher pressure, albeit within a 2 1/2" shell.

As for price, well... ammo for vintage guns is a specialty item for a narrow market segment.

Not sure what it will mean for the future, but the company is under new ownership.

[Jeff Christie]

I have always enjoyed excellent results with polywad ammo. I have not heard about a change in ownership. Do you have any details ?

[Bill Murphy]

Polywad would not be an improvement in price over RST. I buy 2 1/2 DE 1 ounce 16s from Remington. I have bought from Dick's at about $5.00 a box minus coupons, although Dick's is no longer our friend politically.

[Joe Graziano]

The Remington shells would be perfect, if I can find them. Sadly, Dicks is no longer an option.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

The Rems are 2 3/4" , but are 2 1/2 dram equivalent. I have been told they are slightly shorter than 2 3/4, havent measured them. The recoil would probably have a little bite if fired in a light 2 1/2" chamber gun. I believe you are looking for shells to fire in your new 16 hammer gun--at least it ihas fluid steel barrels, so the extra pressure rise might not be a problem. I load almost nothing but 2 1/2" shells now for my 16's (9 of them). 7/8 oz and 3/4 oz thru a 16 are sweet shooters, but if you dont reload that is a moot point.

[Russell E. Cleary]

Jeff:

The newer 16 gauge 2 ½ inch spreader loads that I referenced, have in fact been around for some years. They are called DoubleWide, have less than 1 ounce of shot, 6-8 thousand-pound pressures and are intended for vintage guns.

In contrast, the longer-running, but still 2 ½ inch 16-gauge spreader ammo with 1 ounce of shot was introduced further back, that is, in the 1990s. This product was intended to have recoil circa 1200-1225, sufficient enough to cycle shells through such as the short-chambered Auto 5.

The company was sold last Fall to Todd Raymond who reportedly has other ammunition business interests.

[William Davis]

If you want low recoil for high volume 16 G targets it's RST or Load your own. All other factory ammunition I am aware of is loaded to cycle Auto's & will wear you out shooting 100 shot round of clays. Hunting another thing.

Setting up to load low recoil 16 is not expensive or complicated. Round count over a few boxes at a time it's worth it. Few flats a year buy RST. I do both, couple of flats from RST at shoots, save the empty hulls then load. Hulls wear out get a few more flats from RST.

William

[Russell E. Cleary]

Bill:

Aside from the reloading option, why would the Polywad Vintager loads not meet Joe’s needs for his 16-gauge hammer gun, while RST loads would? The cost per box of both company’s comparable-appearing product is $11.00.

Both loads are represented to be, in a 2 ½ inch 16-gauge shell, low recoil and low pressure. (I am not talking about the original Spread-R. load)

In recent years I have used RST more often than Polywad in old and light-weight guns. But, is there a significant difference between the low-pressure, soft-on-the-shoulder offerings of the two companies?

Or, is it that the RST hull is more suited for re-loading?

[William Davis]

The polywads may be very suitable, I have never used them, friend at the 5 stand last week had some and was going to ask his opinion but did not get around to it. RST hulls are Cheddites and not great hulls, but few good hulls available in 16 G. Gave up on anything else and worked out how to load Cheddites. Short of it is Mec 600 with the short kit, DR 16 wad, 3/4 oz shot Hodgdon International powder.

Way I calculate about 150 to 200 dollars to set up short 16 loading: used press short kit and ballistic products brass pre crimper . Cost of components excluding hulls is about 4 dollars a box. Forgot what I paid for two flats of RST at the Vintagers probably 150 ? That would be 7.50 per box. More expensive ordered in small quantities and shipped no doubt.

You have to shoot 5 or 6 flats to make loading pay . With a Parker Hammer 16 and Trojan 16 using least 1000 16 G shells per year I am ahead of the game loading, all figures from my head.

That’s why I say small quantity better to buy from RST. It’s a top quality load.

Afterthought, Ballistic products had primed empty 2 1/2 inch 16 G Cheddites back ordered for several years, last month they called, now in stock. I bought 3 bags.

William

[Russell E. Cleary]

William:

One other thing I should have noted: There may be comparable pressures between the two company’s light 16-gauge offerings if using the shells with 7/8th ounces of shot. But, I believe only RST offers ¾ ounce 16-gauge loads. That gets the RST Falcon Ultra Lite in ¾ oz. down to 4300 psi, which is the ammo I have lately been using.

I had a very painful shoulder dislocation nearly 30 years ago, which can still give me trouble; so these “lite and lighter” target products are much-appreciated. And, they do avert any re-subluxations (which I have experienced when shooting game loads).

[William Davis]

Agree with you on the low recoil. I have a couple of shoulder issues too. Have a few boxes of Herters 16s left and don’t even want to fire them in my 6 lb 11 oz Trojan. Hammer gun is a bit lighter twist barrels and much older. Better go 3/4 oz low pressure. It breaks clays well to 30 yards thanks to Parker chokes .

I may have been wrong on cost of RST, spend so much at the Southern it’s hard to keep track. 4 dollars per box my reloads is accurate.

William

[Bill Murphy]

William, what exactly is the Herter load that is more than you want to handle?

[William Davis]

Herters one oz field load. It’s fine for low volume shooting. 100 Shot round of clays felt recoil is more in a under 6 lb 11 oz Trojan 16 than 8 lb VH 12 G using 7/8 oz. Its not all that bad but why shoot heavier shot weight and have more recoil in 16 than 12.

Main thing with factory 16 G, excepting RST, they all function recoil operated autos like Remington 11 or Brownings. No need in SXS Guns.

William

[Bruce Day]

I’ve been using Federal, Remington and Winchester 1 oz 16ga shells for almost 50 years on Parker fluid steel and Damascus barreled guns from A grade to P grade. No problems at all. If you want 7/8 oz loads you need to buy RST shells or load your own.

[Bobby Cash]

https://i.imgur.com/oUmyM4I.jpg

Short kit on the Mec Sizemaster.
1 oz, 7/8 oz and 3/4 oz.
Same hull, wad and recipe.

[William Davis]

Nice crimps, What powder & wad do you use.

William

[Bobby Cash]

IMR SR 7625
BP/SPTG16

6400 - 7200 PSI with velocities between 1125 and 1175 FPS depending.
My wife Julie likes "her 16" loaded with the soft 3/4 oz variety.

https://i.imgur.com/dGgG6YB.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/JMV3Hef.jpg

[Allen Peterson]

I just got a flat of 1oz 16 ga 2 9/16 length ammo from Aerostar. They are p&g.
I would not recommend them for old parkers or LCs. They are stout for an older SxS. NIDs or Sterlingworths in good condition can handle them ok.

[William Davis]

I pulled your load up on Hodgdens site, looks like a good one. Load I use, also from Hodgdon, uses DR 16 wads so many on hand will stick with it. Next order will try some of the BP wads the DR wad is cramped with 7/8 oz shot.

William

[Bobby Cash]

I’m sitting on what feels like a lifetime supply.
If you’ll pm me an address, I’ll send you a gross.
Bobby.

[William Davis]

Like to have 25 to try, will send you my address.

Thanks

William

[Bobby Cash]

... the DR wad is cramped with 7/8 oz shot.
William

The BP/SPTG16 with 7/8 oz shot will even have room for a BP spreader disc. :whistle:

[Milt Fitterman]

I have a fairly new sizemaster. Would a ballistic products brass pre crimper decrease the number of bad crimps that you never get on a 12g. Mec?

[William Davis]

I think so, others say they don’t work well. The New style plastic spin pre crimp caused me trouble in my two 600 JRs 10 & 16 G with short kits and used with Cheddite hulls.

Way I run the brass pre-crimp, fixed it does not spin. I have to align the fingers with the hulls crimp fold. Slows things down a bit but crushed crimps do too. I never loose a hull on crimping now.

William

[Milt Fitterman]

Thanks for the response.

[Leighton Stallones]

I have been buying the Western 2 1/2 x 7/8 loads 1200 ft/sec, they are reasonable and work well, The Super X 1210 ft/sec are a little more expensive but still reasonable.
https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/winchester-target-load-20-gauge-75-shotshells#repChildCatid=28452

[Rich Anderson]

I have had no issues with using the cheddite hull and reload RST hulls exclusively in 12, 16, & 20 all 2 1/2 inch. I use MEC 6000's in all gauges and haven't had any problems breaking clays or killing birds with 7/8th to 3/4 oz loading. If you go to some of the shoots like the Southern or the North East you can pick up a good supply of one fired cases in most gauges. I get what I consider good case life out of the RST hull and usually load them 6 times or so before tossing them.

[Joe Graziano]

I shot the RST paper shells with 7/8 oz loads at the Vintagers on Saturday. What a difference they made in a light 16 ga hammergun. The gun went from rather stout recoil with Federal 1 oz loads to a much more pleasant experience with the RST shells. They also broke the clays nicely. Yes, they are more expensive but now I agree, worth it. I bought a few boxes to take home and a box of 7/8 oz spreader loads for an upcoming quail hunt in Georgia.

[Leighton Stallones]

Fiocchis are excellent in the 16 ga. I have used them for years.

[Rich Anderson]

I'll hunt with the RST and love the paper shells. My favorite is the two inch 12. I have gone mostly to a 3/4 oz load and still break targets and they are very effective on quail.

Joe where in Georgia do you go? Three of us have been going to Morrison Pines in Moultree for the last four years. Returning again in Jan.

[Joe Graziano]

This will be my first GA trip. We are doing a three generation hunt with my father and my son. We will hunt at Rio Piedra in Camilla. I’ll hunt with the Belgian 16 hammer and my 1881 Parker lifter. For that, the AA low noise/low recoil are very sweet. I’ll also bring the 1893 Ithaca for my son and my dad will light em up with his .410 Stevens. Add an after hunt cigar and bourbon. Ahhh, can’t wait. I’ll have to check out Morrison Pines.

[Todd Poer]

Rio Piedra is an excellent place and had a very memorable experience there. I hunted there many years ago. Have been to many plantation hunts in South Georgia and they are all pretty good with some better than others and Rio Piedra is top notch and is a pretty place to hunt along the Flint River bottoms. A lot of times terrain on most of these places in South Georgia can be fairly flat and RP has some of that in their quiver of locations they maintain. Getting to hunt close to the river was special with its undulating terrain, dry oxbo draws and ancient river banks left over as the Flint has changed course over thousands of years. Topo was not particularly tough to navigate but it added to challenge of the hunt and not because we were out of shape, physically limited or hungover. It was because they had enough birds that had survived a season or two along with predation that they had figured out safe terrain and thick cover.

When we hunted they had already had established operations in several places but they were trying to get some new locations up to speed. Plenty of challenging birds that can be found in very easily accessible areas to get your bird limit in beautiful hunting areas endemic of what a managed landscape South Georgia quail hunt is supposed to look like.

The grounds and game management system they employ is top notch. I grew up hunting wild quail and as far as a commercial operation the birds at Rio Piedra flew and behaved about as close to wild game as you can get. We hunted there in early December so that can make a difference. All our covey rises behaved like wild birds and there were no stragglers, and if dogs got on point there was no time for a leisure stroll to get into position or birds may break on you even with some experienced well trained quality dog work. We actually had to hunt pretty hard to find covey's which I thoroughly enjoyed because of the excellent dog work that was required. It was hunting and not just shooting since you had to work to get your limit and that was part of the reward and value add part of experience.

It is not that there aren't a lot of birds but the areas we hunted were so big there were so many places for them to be. We averaged about 10 coveys per hunt over three days and 4 hunts. We covered a lot of ground but not all they controlled. Some places steer you away from chasing singles after a covey rise but we chased them and we really had to work together to mark birds to follow up on and I found out later why. Second flushes were challenging as well and that is when the solid dog work is really fun to watch.

After that first day we told guide that we wanted to hunt some areas less traveled. He got a gleam in his eye and said perfect since it would take some pressure off some areas. He took us to an area that they had just started managing near the river. The fields were in place but edge cover was thick and needed thinning. They put out a good many birds to get base population going but after being hunted a few times seems a batch of them had figured out the area and there were a couple of river coveys. That was reason after covey rises we hunted singles hard because if they got away they would merge into the river coveys that were mobs. Still remember the guide chuckling in a dead run as soon as dog got on point along the river bank. We had to sprint almost 75 yards and luckily the first covey held. There might of been 50 birds in that first one along the river and they would flush wild and then fly across the river. Now I have experienced plenty of large covey flushes but nothing like these. It was a sight to behold. We saw three coveys and only got a shot at first covey rise, the other two broke as soon as a dog got within 20 yards of them.

The food was great and what you would expect at a high end restaurant and I appreciated it even though I have a less demanding palate. The accommodations were top notch as well. Hanging out on the covered porches, then by the river and then later by the outdoor fireplace with a roaring fire and more than a few adult beverages really was satisfying. BTW we also saw some incredible deer and story at the time was that the chef was only one allowed to hunt the deer as part of the condition of his employment.

Sorry Joe got carried away remembering my time there. BTW not a paid advertisement. I don't think it will disappoint at all. Your 16 gauge will work serve you well there. Also when we hunted there they were about to get property on both sides of Flint for those river coveys that traded back and forth.

[Joe Graziano]

Southpaw, thanks for all the excellent info on Rio Piedra. I passed it on to my father and to my son. We can wait to go. Now that we are all adults, it’s not often we get to hunt together. I’ll post pics after the hunt.

[Rich Anderson]

Joe you can do a search for Morrison pines and see some of the reports here. I don't think it's far from RP. Three generations sounds like fun and a good family outing. When are you going? I have to warn you this gets into your system.

[Joe Graziano]

I have no doubt about it getting in my system. We are going in late Oct. I suspect I will be back regularly.

[Todd Poer]

Southpaw, thanks for all the excellent info on Rio Piedra. I passed it on to my father and to my son. We can wait to go. Now that we are all adults, it’s not often we get to hunt together. I’ll post pics after the hunt.

I'm jealous. Rio Piedra does it up right and them birds are going to be flying hard and fast I am betting. They pretty much set the standard for that Orvis award they have won a few times. Have been to about a dozen different operations down there and that doesn't even scratch the surface of all the places. Alabama and Florida have some really good ones as well. Have not made Morrison yet but that one does sound compelling.

I know you didn't ask and not certain where you hail from but I remind folks that South Georgia, Florida and Alabama is snake country year round and October can be pretty sultry down there. Odds are you will never see one much less have a run in and they will steer clear of you. You may even be a herpetologist in spare time. Just be mindful and you'll be okay. If you have snake boots or other snake protection consider wearing them. You probably won't die but it is not a pleasant experience and rattlesnake bites are nasty stuff if you are really unlucky to get hit by one.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/29/health/snake-bites-increase/index.html

BTW the above article claiming global warming is causing snake bite increases is an overreach but data on bite numbers is what it is. Causes could be combination of a bunch of reasons but I choose not to be statistic. Personally I think of snake protection like toting a an umbrella or jacket on sunny day here in the SE. There is always a chance of rain and every time I think it could rain I am prepared it never does. I figure that mentality works for me with snake bite issues on a lesser degree.

Looking forward to hearing your trip report and seeing those pics.

[Bill Murphy]

Leighton's shells seem to be 20 gauge. The 16 gauge from the same supplier are eight bucks a box, no bargain compared to the 20 gauge he cites at $5.49. If the hated, anti gun Dick's ever gets another shipment of Remington promotional 16s, they will probably be $5.49 or $5.99 on sale.

[Joe Graziano]

Much thanks for the good advice on snakes. Coming from Northern VA, I didn’t think about them.

Bill regarding the shells, I didn’t follow the reference to Leighton. Which supplier are you referring to?

[Bill Murphy]

Leighton posted a link to Academy Sports that referred to 20 gauge prices. If we follow the link, we get $8.00 16 gauge promotional loads. By the way, yesterday in Woodbridge Virginia, just outside of D.C., we read about the finding of a two headed copperhead.

[CraigThompson]

Much thanks for the good advice on snakes. Coming from Northern VA, I didn’t think about them.



Being from NOVA I would think you were well aware of all the two legged snakes in the District :rotf:

[Joe Graziano]

You have no idea how accurate you are. Every day, every day. Haha.

[Frank Srebro]

Here's a simple and practical solution for vintage 16 bore guns made for 2-9/16" shells that are capable of being opened to 2-3/4" - as confirmed by barrel wall measurements forward of the chambers.

1930's 16 gauge chamber reamer that was made to period 2-3/4" specs. Note the relatively short forcing cone that's only about 3/8" long as measured on the diagonal.

[Rich Anderson]

Joe when your ready for your next trip give Morrison Pines a try, better yet just come with our group. We always go the last week in January for 3-4 days.

[John Bamonte]

Where can I find recipes for low pressure 16 gauge reloads? 1 oz, 7/8 oz, 3/4 oz. Hodgdon powder preferred. Thank you!

John

[William Davis]

On Hodgdons web site. Look at the Cheddite 2 1/2 data. Great 3/4 & 7/8 oz loads.

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/shotgun

William

[John Bamonte]

Thank you William. I noted on the Hodgdon web site 1 oz loads are listed under 2 3/4” shells only, and there are a few lower pressure recipes there also.

My VH 16 gauge, has 2 3/4” chambers so I could go either way. However, it would be a bit more convenient to have low pressure recipes for all three shot weights (1, 7/8, 3/4) in one hull length, either 2 1/2” or 2 3/4”.

Thank you again for the reply. I am new to 16 gauge and just trying to find my way.
John

[William Davis]

Thing about the 2 3/4 cheddites is they need fillers to load 3/4 & 7/8. You read recipes that say they will handle lighter shot loads but I gave it up as a lost cause. Too many leaking crimps. 1 oz they load fine. I found it easier to stick with the 2 1/2 inch shells . 12 g I load 7/8 & 1 oz. so no need to go to an once in my 16s anyway.

Hodgdons 3/4 data produces near exact duplicate of RST 3/4 . I buy RST shoot and save the hulls for later loading.

William

[John Bamonte]

William - thank you again for all of the advice. Nothing like experience to draw on!

John

[John Bamonte]

William - one follow-up question. Have you loaded 1 oz in the 2 1/2 inch shells?

John

[William Davis]

I have not loaded 1 oz in the 2 3/4 inch hulls. It was hard for me to give up on 2 3/4, Ponsness Warren all set up for 20 & 16 G 2 3/4. Now loading 2 1/2 on a Mec 600 with the short kit. However if I wanted 3/4 & 7/8 it was the right choice.

Looking at Hodgdons site they only list 1 oz for 2 3/4 Cheddites 3/4 & 7/8 for the shorter shells.

Before Hodgdon published recent data 16 G shooters used all sorts of tricks to light load long cases successfully . Most using fillers of some sort. Fillers work well that’s how I load short 10 with thanks to guys on this forum. If you want to stick with 2 3/4 hulls fillers would be a good solution. My choice of 2 1/2 was due to majority if not all my 16 G shooting with 3/4 oz.

William

[Joe Graziano]

I would like to begin loading my own 2 1/2 in shells. I haven’t reloaded shells since doing so with my father many years ago on a Lee Load All. I noticed that the loaders are setup for 2 3/4 and 3 inch. For those that load 2 1/2 inch, how do you go about it? After experiencing the pleasure of shooting 2 1/2, 7/8 oz loads through a light hammergun, I will probably stick with it or 3/4 oz.

[William Davis]

Best way is buy a used 16 G 600 Jr. mine cost 50 bucks plus shipping off eBay. Then order a “short kit” from Mec. It’s just a spacer that raises the shell holder plate 1/4 inch. It’s possable to make the riser too. It’s easy to remove and load 2 3/4 same press.

Pick up once fired RST hulls or order some new primed 2 1/2 inch Cheddites from Ballistic Products. 3/4 oz best wad is Downranges DR 16 7/8 it’s BP’s 7/8 wad, both specified Hodgdons data.

My Parker 16 Hammer loves the 3/4 oz. 16 Trojan could handle heavier loads but it’s a real pleasure to shoot targets with 3/4. About the only time I use 7/8 is with the Trojan dog training on Chukkers. Bigger or wild birds would need more.

William