The History Channel now

[Brett Hoop]

New to me show Master & Apprentice
They are building a coach gun and just cut a set of 10ga Parker barrels.
Thought maybe of interesting.

[Dean Romig]

Ignorance is bliss...





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[Brian Dudley]

I didnt watch it, but I saw that in the guide. It was on after forged in fire. In reading the description, i could not tell if the show had to do with bladesmithing or something else.

It was Vicknair that said it best. The term “master” is usually self appointed since there is no legitimate apprenticeship program in this country that bestows that title.

[Jerry VanHorn]

I just watched it too..10 ga. barrels on 12 gauge frame...and 5 different serial numbers. Doug Turnbull didn't have much to say..

[Dean Romig]

It was Vicknair that said it best. The term “master” is usually self appointed since there is no legitimate apprenticeship program in this country that bestows that title.

Presumably you mean in gunsmithing...

There are several trades in this country that include apprentice, journeyman and master levels of skill. Plumbers and electricians come immediately to mind.






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[Ed Blake]

Ah, another “Wells Fargo” gun ready for the market.

[Mark Beasland]

A while back I was contacted by a casting company looking for a cast for a new show that had to do with Gunsmithing. I had a brief interview and I explained my focus was quite narrow and did not hear back from them. I wondered if the show ever developed. Sounds like this could be it. I hope it turns out to be something positive.

[Brian Dudley]

I have a funny story about that Mark. I will tell it in a bit when i can get to my computor to type out a longer post.

And yes Dean, i mean gunsmithing.

[Brian Dudley]

Ok... Late last summer I got an email from the owner of some gunsmithing business out in CA. He was looking for a ton of parts for a Parker hammer gun. When we had the chance to talk on the phone, he told me that his shop was going to be filming a pilot episode for a gunsmithing show in which they had ONE WEEK to completely restore a firearm. Restocking, metal finishing and all!

He chose a Parker hammer gun for two reasons, it was the only old double that he had hanging around the shop that was from a maker that he figured he could get parts for, and the producers of the show wanted to showcase the work as more of an art and craft with using an older classic gun. I immediately told him that their "Art and Craft" position was in direct contradiction to their 1 week timeline. He acknowledged that and said that he managed to convince them to allow some camera trickery like on the baking shows where you put the pan in the oven and then pull out a finished one from another oven. But he knew that would only get him so far and that his back was still against the wall.

He went on about how his shop was perfect because all of his guys were characters and would be great for TV.

I expressed to him that I was surprised that he would agree to such a thing since you cannot even get a proper finish on a stock in 1 week, let along make the stock and everything else in that timeframe. And that he could potentially be doing his business harm to anyone who knew any better if the results were any less than excellent. He said he knew, but that he was a small shop with a lot of overhead and that he needed the exposure and publicity.

I asked him what the purpose of the show was to be, like an 'American Chopper' type show that followed his shop specifically or something different. He described it that it was intended to be more of a competition format between different shops or something.

Anyway... I just shook my head, and sold him all the parts he needed and express overnighted them to him because he needed them asap. I never heard anything else about it in follow-up.

[Brett Hoop]

I found it more interesting than any thing else in that time slot, and well, it had Doug on it so I watched. I had never seen it prior if that wasn't the first show. I have sat though a lot worse. Much like Forged in Fire.

[Brian Dudley]

Based on what i could find, it was the first show. I really enjoy Forged in Fire personally. I have been looking on-line to see if i could find that episode, but couldnt find anything. I will catch it at some time.

[Craig Budgeon]

I have found that when MASTER is applied to a crafts person it has the most significant meaning when the customer/end-user applies it. Many apprenticeships today have a narrower focus because of the changing technology. While I am most appreciative of master chefs the term can be applied to many trades including mechanics, jewelers, electricians, plumbers, masons, hairdressers, and gunsmiths to name a few. As the number of masters is reduced the value of there skills will increase.

[Rick Losey]

i remember when the "History" channel actually showed history

[Russell E. Cleary]

The kind of show being described, or at least prefigured by the posts of Brett and Brian, remind me of why I have never bothered to buy a TV, seeing enough of it in other people’s homes or on the tug boats I have worked on where in the common area it is on continuously.

I am reminded of WICKED TUNA, which show has publicized a sport/commercial fishery I have had some involvement in over several decades. It is not enough to highlight the talents of the participants in an extraordinary setting. No, they invariably have to be demeaned, ofttimes reduced to nattering gossipers or even portrayed at their most grotesque, intemperate worst. It just does not square with what I have known, but unfortunately probably does influence an emerging new standard of behavior.

I know ‘there is a lot of good stuff on TV”, but there is still enough of it that for me makes TV, to this day, a national embarrassment.

[Brian Dudley]

Hundreds and hundreds of channels and most just bounce between 3 or 4.

[William Davis]

Wicked Tuna is so full of BS I can’t watch it. Reality tv topics I am familiar with it’s never satisfying, see all the errors & staged situations. Some are good though, try Ice Pilots, off Netflix, old equipment in extreme conditions. I don’t know enough about aviation to see the warts.

William

[Mark Landskov]

I also 'enjoyed' the comments on the 'unstable 45 Colt that eventually morphed into the 45 Auto', or words to that effect! The producers have the final say, I suppose. Jason Statham hired my brother to be his weapons coach when he made 'Mechanic Resurrection'. My brother said there were a couple times when his advice was trumped. He certainly had a good time, though!

[Jerry Harlow]

Was watching the History Channel the other night with a series about Civil War battles. There again, in a new production were both armies shooting left-hand guns with the lock on the left and carrying their weapons on the wrong side. The actors portraying the 1st Virginia Infantry had to make those old soldiers turn over in their graves. Hat cocked sideways like a rapper, uniform for a man twice his size, Lieutenant standing in front of his men firing instead of behind the lines, smoking cigarettes, etc. No historical advisors or like you say they just ignore them. It was too much to take so I turned it off.

The channel is mostly crap now.

[Mike Franzen]

The kind of show being described, or at least prefigured by the posts of Brett and Brian, remind me of why I have never bothered to buy a TV

Wow! That’s quite a statement. You have never bought a TV?

[Brian Dudley]

TVs can be like pools or boats. Don’t own one, but have a friend who does.

[Tom Flanigan]

Reality shows are really garbage. Especially the couple of wilderness survival shows I watched. I can't watch them anymore. They are incredible phoney. I take three trips a year to the Rockies in Colorado to catch the greenback cutthroat trout which only exist above about 12,000 feet. I spend five days alone on a high peak that is 13,300 feet. I take no food and forage for edible greens and eat brook trout for five days that I bring to altitude with me. I know all about survival in a hostile environment and what I need to do to stay out of trouble.

I watched one show that where the "survivalist" stated many things that were dangerously wrong. I couldn't believe it. What he said could get someone in big trouble.
The guy knew nothing about survival in an area far away from the nearest human. I turned the show off when he made a big deal about catching a brook trout. He took the live trout, bit the head off and then ate it whole. What utter nonsense. I'm sure he was at a low altitude location with many people filming. The fact that they put a jerk like that on and called him a survival expert really got to me. Horrible!! It still pisses me off when I think about it.

[Russell E. Cleary]

Quote: "Wow! That’s quite a statement. You have never bought a TV?"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike:

That’s right, never bought one, don’t have one in my house; but, probably will if a house-mate comes in here and buys one for his own room. Huge surcharge, but not impossible, if he wants it put in a common room.

I did once own a TV. Was then renting an apartment in Boston. Girlfriend living across town bought a second color TV and gave me her old black and white. Turned it on one time only, to watch Reagan give his Evil Empire speech. The next time I tried to view something it no longer powered up.

So, we set it up in a friend's backyard as a target for harpoon practice. Had the satisfaction of “breaking the target”, that is, seeing the hand-launched pole smash the plastic screen and continue on through and out the back-side of the unit, all done with a panache rarely achieved since.

Hey, it has been said that the things you like to do between the ages of 13 and 23 are the things that keep you happily occupied the rest of your life.

Books I have never read; others that at this stage in life can now be satisfyingly re-read; there is internet; collections to putter over; fishing tackle to be overhauled; old house forever in need of some sort of maintenance; talk radio to listen to, all of which leaves little time or need for TV watching.

And, as Brian implied, there are always friends who have Netflix available at their houses.

[Richard Flanders]

Good for you Russel. I have bought TV's but only have a wall antenna so get 3 network channels, two of which are absolutely useless, so my TV time is very limited. I do play movies on it though. There is so little of value on cable, why bother... and I can't afford it any way. For everyone's info, all the Alaska "reality" TV shows are pretty much 110% BS on every level. Ice Road Truckers, the Bering Sea fishing stuff, the gold mining, the folks living in the wilderness - total garbage and grossly over dramatized from beginning to end. I'd have to say though that the one that is the least over done are the Bering Sea crabbing shows. That is officially designated as the most dangerous job in the US. Those boats get overloaded sometimes and just disappear w/o a trace in violent storms.

[todd allen]

I settle down every day after work, open a beer, and watch the Virginian Series.
It's the best thing on TV. That, with some extra butter, microwave popcorn, I'm a happy camper!

[Bill Murphy]

I watched the show, but don't know what to comment since the thread has gone so far off subject.

[todd allen]

I watched the show, but don't know what to comment since the thread has gone so far off subject.

Threads go off topic. That's why they're called threads, and not Laser Beams.

[Bill Murphy]

I think I understand that. However, I thought I may have something to add, since I actually watched the show.

[Brian Dudley]

I don’t think we are all that far off topic. Go ahead, what are your thoughts Bill?

[Michael D Hankinson]

All of you finally made me search the on-demand program and watch the "Gunsmithing" program. Worst pc of Crap I've ever seen and I have watched the Detroit Lions for 60 years!!

[Marty Kohler]

There is some wonderful programming on the Smithsonian channel... America in Color has some great rarely seen colorized footage.....you can watch on demand....also starting Sunday night The Pacific War.... will be featured.... well done productions...

[Brian Dudley]

I had the chance to watch the show on demand this evening.

I really wonder where the producers of these shows find these people. My guess is that the actual gunsmiths had better things to be doing. I laughed at the premise of the challenge. “Build a coach gun”. To me that means take a perfectly good shotgun and cut the barrels down. And they were not very specific about the parameters of the “build”.

I am sure the one team builds nice ARs, but working with wood or doing much of anything by hand was completely out of their wheelhouse.

The Parker that was shoehorned together on the show by the ofher team is a perfect answer to the question of frame sizes being interchangeable or not. They took a set of 10g barrels (presumably 3 frame) and put them on a 12g frame and based on the size difference of the breech, i suspect it was a 1 frame that they put those barrels on. You could see when misfired during testing that the primer hit was way over on the inside edge of the primer. And the gun kept on misfiring.

And i wont even comment on fit and finish. But, they had a week, what would anyone expect?

And I wonder who did the homework that turned up the “fact” that Parker Brothers was established in 1832.

Overall the program was a little of an embarrassment to the trade, but i guess it is par for the course on these things.

[Bill Murphy]

Mr. T., the only person involved in the show that knows which end the shot comes out, seemed to be a bit embarrassed by the production. He should have been the director. Then it may have been way more entertaining. I wonder who came up with the "weeping apprentice" feature?

[keavin nelson]

I watched with great anticipation, only to be disappointed, particularly what they did to the Parker, total incompetence IMO. Surprised to see Doug Turnbul would actually engage in it.

[Brian Dudley]

Mr. T., the only person involved in the show that knows which end the shot comes out, seemed to be a bit embarrassed by the production. He should have been the director. Then it may have been way more entertaining. I wonder who came up with the "weeping apprentice" feature?

Was that the one crying after he almost lost his hand in the chop saw?

[Mark Beasland]

There is no crying in gunsmithing!!! WOW I watched it on demand and repeatedly found my self mumbling WTF are they thinking. I don't like the concept but given the challenge and a potential $10k .... get a working Hammergun cut the barrels and spend the rest of the time on the stock. These guys made it as hard as you could.

[Scot Cardillo]

There is some wonderful programming on the Smithsonian channel... America in Color has some great rarely seen colorized footage.....you can watch on demand....also starting Sunday night The Pacific War.... will be featured.... well done productions...

I'll second this. I don't have the channel yet but was fortunate to catch a few episodes of "Aerial America" recently. It's a fantastic show narrated well and the production is stunning.

I'm looking forward to the shows Marty mentioned.

Richard Flanders: being an alaska guy, I'd like your take on the show Mountain Men, if you've seen it of course? We enjoy that show and I'm kind of partial to the old fella' Tom in Montana. He's got a Shorthair and lets her tag along and help him in the field, provided there's no obvious danger in having her there..how bad could he be?

I'm sure the show's got some fluff (MM) but the guy Marty that flies in to Alaska by himself is reported to be the real deal. And in fact, pretty well respected by many.

[Dean Romig]

I would like to see more of Bucky Winkley, who has the lowest number, still operating, Alaska Guide's License.
I first met Bucky in about '62 or '63. He also lived in Danvers, MA and we were introduced by a mutual friend. Bucky was about 21 or 22 then and he would go to various sportsmen's clubs putting on a movie and slide show and I would go along to help set up and break down. As young as he was I was even younger and I learned a lot from him. I still have some of the things he gave me - a couple of pen & ink drawings he did of Dall rams and big brown bears - he was an excellent artist!

https://www.adn.com/49th-estate-real-estate-in-alaska/video/video-buckys-museum-rainy-pass-lodge/2014/05/01/



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[Brett Hoop]

Dean

Enjoyed the clip! I have been so fortunate to get to spend just a little bit of time up there and met some wonderful self sufficient people much like your friend.

[charlie cleveland]

that was a good clip what a life these guys have lived...charlie

[Bill Holcombe]

That show is a pretty good abject lesson for why you want your parker worked on by a true gunsmith as opposed to a guy with some tools who likes working on guns....

And I can typically give reality show people a break as they need the promotion for their business and trying to get their name out there, but Doug Turnbull is not one of those people and I can't believe he let himself be associated with this joke of a production.

[Brian Dudley]

Well, he was a judge. And I am sure he was sold on it being something more than what it was.

I guarantee he had a lot to say that likely ended up on the cutting room floor.

[Craig Budgeon]

It has been said that there is no bad publicity and over the years I have seen Doug doing several events that brought publicity to Turnbull Restorations. Doug provided the firearms to both winners of the NASCAR races at Texas for several years, he did a photo shoot in NYC delivering a gun to Tom Selleck, his company was written up in a local newspaper recently, and I know he makes several appearances throughout the country every year and conducts seminars at those events. I have been told by a previous and current employee that Doug is a mechanical genius in regards to firearms. I believe Doug has approximately 10 fulltime gunsmihs and according to my source they have all been working a large amount of overtime for the past month. The decisions Doug has made seem to be working for Turnbull Restorations Inc.