1883 GH Value

[Bret Miller]

I recently bought an 1883 GH hammer gun from an auction that is in pretty good condition. Locks up tight and has your normal handling marks. Splinter forend, 30" damascus barrels with bores in good condition and all original parts. Any idea of the value? I plan on keeping it, I'm just curious.

[Brian Dudley]

Being a hammer gun, it is a G grade. Not a GH.

Since you won it, I suppose it is worth what you paid at auction for it.

Without good photos of the gun, not much else can be said.

[Garry L Gordon]

What it's "worth," what is its value, what someone who doesn't own it would pay? Here we go again. The gun was worth one increment higher to you than the next highest bid. :whistle:

For what it's worth (not much, I expect), I've tracked three hammer 16 G grades at auction over the past couple of years. One went for $3000, another for $2750, and the third was part of a lot of 3 guns and went for $2500 (not counting the buyer's premium). They were all in decent (at best) condition, but were all original. All were 0 frame guns with lightening cuts in the frame.

Lots of variables to consider, obviously. Just assume you got what you wanted and believe it's a value...and then cherish and shoot it.

[Drew Hause]

Bret: It's value now is as a work of art to be hung on the wall, until a double gun specialist, with the interest, equipment and expertise to do so, has determined that it (esp. the barrels) could be used with shells that reproduce the ballistics of loads for which it was designed. Let the fellas know where you are and there might be someone nearby.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Very informative reading Drew.

[Keith Sirmans]

Brett if you are going to shoot it before you have it tested (most do not but simply have it inspected) then please use the 2 1/2" low pressure shells from rst

[Bruce Day]

Low pressure shells from RST. We see that repeated so often it becomes a mantra.

But we know what Parker recommended for 16 ga guns, we do not have to guess.

Photo 1: from the 1886 catalog, 1 oz and 2 3/4 to 3 dram loads

Photo 2: from the 1915 Small Bore Shot Gun pamphlet , 1 oz and 2 3/4 dram

So here is Photo 3, RST 1 oz and 1200 FPS loads and Federal 1 oz , 2 1/2 DRE , and 1165 FPS . The RST at 1200 FPS run out to about a 2 3/4 DRE load. I shoot both cartridges regularly. I just picked up a couple cases of Federals at Reeds in Walker MN last Sunday at nice prices.

So we know because we have run through the numbers before here that the Federals produces about 500 psi chamber pressure more than the RST loads but both are at least 1000 psi less than service load maximums given by Parker. The RSTs leave more burnt powder residue than the Federals, which are very clean burning.

Some contend that RSTs produce less recoil. That just isn’t true when a person actually calculates recoil energy . In fact, of the two boxes of shells here, the RST produce greater recoil energy.

Some also contend that because the RST shell are 2 1/2” expanded length, they must be used in old Parkers. I don’t know about your old 16 ga Parkers , but all of mine are 2 9/16 “ . And Photo 4, from the current DGJ we know that the short length is not harmful and from so many Parker sources , we know Parker wanted it for better gas sealing .

I’m no expert , so I just follow Parker instructions. I’m off for Oklahoma soon, then Montana then Minnesota, then South Dakota, and more . I’ll be gone most of the fall and I’ll take along several 16s including this old beater Parker 16 and cases of RST and Federal shells.

[Drew Hause]

I'm with Bruce on this issue, but it is important to note that the 1886 catalog refers to Black Powder which would have pressures about 2/3 of period Bulk Smokeless (in general use by about 1895).

These are the best actual Smokeless/Nitro pressures reported from turn-of-the-century studies

1 oz. 2 1/2 Dr. Eq. BULK Smokeless (1165 fps) was about 7000 psi
1 oz. 2 3/4 Dr. Eq. (1220 fps) about 8500 psi
I don't have data for Dense Smokeless which would be 1000 - 2000 psi higher

Frederick Toms, Sporting Guns and Gunpowder, 1897
https://books.google.com/books?id=inQCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA132
Average pressure of Nitro Bulk powders; all 3 Dr. Eq.
16g 1 oz. – 7,784 psi
20g 7/8 oz. – 10,840 psi
https://books.google.com/books?id=inQCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA158
2 1/2 Dr. Eq.
16g 1 oz. - 7,448 psi
20g 1 oz. - 9,195 psi

These are the 16g RST numbers that I have, from 2016
Ultra Lite 2 1/2” 3/4 oz. - 4600 psi
Best (2010 - replaced by Falcon) 2 1/2” 7/8 oz. 1125 fps, 7720 psi
I don't have the 1 oz. psi but RST is quite happy to provide the numbers

The Federal Game Load 1 oz was tested by Tom Armbrust way back in 2001 at 9160 psi

Nice that we no longer have to guess (or make stuff up ;) ) when asked "What loads were recommended for my gun?"

More U.S. maker's load recommendations are down about 1/4 here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F2sQuPm05IE4VWYYnCkvuXmYEzQoWd_SQgaAfUOZEFU/preview

Long shells in short chambers about 1/3 down here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZIo0y746UsSRZIgRuuxwAbZjSBHitO_EanvwLYc-kGA/edit

[Bruce Day]

That’s why you don’t substitute one for one but use drams equivalent and use dense smokeless , not bulk. However we can identify the modern equivalent of what Parker said to use in their guns and most instances, buy it from the local gun store unless they want to sell you Black Storm Prairie Fire Super pheasant loads guaranteed to kill at 100 yards.

[Drew Hause]

Indeed, but unfortunately some fellas were not paying attention :shock:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/17546456/405843826.jpg

1902 Sears catalog No. 112
"Gun and rifle barrels can only burst by having some obstruction in the barrel or by overloading with Nitro powder...dense Nitro powder should be weighed using an apothecary's scale and not measured."

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/24532497/411815688.jpg

[Bruce Day]

I think many of those were of the hold my beer and watch this nature and would have been You Tubed 100 years later

[charlie cleveland]

that gun is probably in the 5 too 600 dollar range...charlie

[Todd Poer]

Bruce that is good stuff. Remember when first joined forum you were helping me wrap my mind around shooting 1 ounce 16 gauge loads from Federal that I had in storage. Others were saying shoot only 2.5 inch low pressure loads and the info like you presented earlier in thread helped me and gave me peace of mind that there is not that much difference.

You and Dr. Drew have the ballistics stuff down and present a strong element of reasonableness in information you consistently present.