28 00 frame

[Mark Ray]

All,

This is another of those totally subjective inquiries. I have an opportunity to purchase #168062, it is not in the book. VH 28 bore, 00 frame with lightening cuts, and 26” 2lb 9oz barrels. Improperly restored at least once some time ago, barrels aggressively refinished (cannot really read past “Vulcan” on rib), forearm looks original, but iron has been blued, along with lever. Buttstock looks replacement. Here are pics. What is this gun worth as it sits? If I pass on it, I will be happy to feed it to the wolves here,!

[Mark Ray]

More

[Mark Ray]

Ore

[Brian Dudley]

Boy, that is a rough one...

[Dean Romig]

If the bores are good and the BWT is at least .025" everywhere, maybe $5.5k




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[Paul Ehlers]

The first thing I would want to know is the wall thickness through out both barrels. Anyone who would strike off the rib matting like that, could have thinned the walls down beyond reasonable limits.

[Brian Dudley]

I suspect that the barrels may not be original to the gun. And the rib extention was standing up higher than the frame so it was taken down. The level in relation to the frame is good looking now; it would be much lower if the barrels were original and all that material removed.

[wayne goerres]

I think I would waist the money on a letter before I even considered a purchase.

[Mark Ray]

I suspect that the barrels may not be original to the gun. And the rib extention was standing up higher than the frame so it was taken down. The level in relation to the frame is good looking now; it would be much lower if the barrels were original and all that material removed.

As,usual everythinbecomes more and more interesting. The barrel lug ser. #’s look right, and match. Beginning to think that the original dolls head got,broken or bent, and this is a replacement....seller is going to sit tight until we have a letter.

HIDE. AND. WATCH

[Daniel G Rainey]

This post is a real lesson for people like me.

[Todd Poer]

Looks like the gun or at least stock and receiver were stored in a shearling lined case to cause that rust and corrosion. Got a hand me down gun that was stored in a case like that for a long time and it had the same issue.

[Brian Dudley]

As,usual everythinbecomes more and more interesting. The barrel lug ser. #’s look right, and match. Beginning to think that the original dolls head got,broken or bent, and this is a replacement....seller is going to sit tight until we have a letter.

HIDE. AND. WATCH




Do you have a photo of the barrel Serial number?

[Mark Ray]

Picking the gun up this afternoon. here is a pic of the barrel ser #'s. I had the seller get a smith close to her get the barrels measured and evaluated. LH .0265" RH .0266., RH modified and LH Full, matching the letter. He said that the rib is tight, and barrels ring nicely. And confirmed that it was his opinion the rib extension had been replaced.

I received the letter on the gun a few days ago, and the gun matches the letter. It was specified to weigh 5 1/2 lbs., and was ordered by S.A Tucker.

Did Tucker work for the H.H. Kiffe Co.? Or for Parker?

Will advise further when gun is in hand.

[Mark Ray]

Got the gun in hand, and it is nicer than I expected, but not without issues. The stock work is decent, but looks like a matte urethane finish to me. The other glaring issue, that I had not expected is the addition of a barrel sling swivel. Nicely done, but the gun does not letter for it.

Raining today...will send pics when the sun comes out.

[Dean Romig]

Better pictures can be got on an overcast day where there is no possibility of glare from the sun.





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[Mark Ray]

Better pictures can be got on an overcast day where there is no possibility of glare from the sun.


Agreed, but today I would have a slicker and an umbrella in the way!! Rained 7.5” so far!


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Agreed, but today I would have a slicker and an umbrella in the way!! Rained 7.5” so far!

[Todd Poer]

You've stepped in it now. If that little gun shoots well, you'll not want to shoot all those big bore guns. Sub gauge guns can be an addiction.

[Mark Ray]

Oh Todd,

I “stepped in it” a long time ago. Untill this dam vintage gun sickness grabbed me a few years ago, my go to dove and quail Guns have mainly been .410’s and 28’s, starting with an Elsie .410 that I bought in a pawnshop in college, and traded for a d12/28 MARTIN guitar. I had Mark DeHaan build me a really sweet little gun about 15 years ago, that I have put truckloads of rounds through. This little Parker feels great, and I am formulating a plan for her.

[davidboyles]

Mark you Dog are we going to be twins now. I love my 28 00 frame 28" bbl. It has become a go to for doves and quail. Stayed tuned inPP for article and pics on NM quail hunt. Glad you got yourself a good one. Did you get it near Corpus??

[Todd Poer]

Oh Todd,

I “stepped in it” a long time ago. Untill this dam vintage gun sickness grabbed me a few years ago, my go to dove and quail Guns have mainly been .410’s and 28’s, starting with an Elsie .410 that I bought in a pawnshop in college, and traded for a d12/28 MARTIN guitar. I had Mark DeHaan build me a really sweet little gun about 15 years ago, that I have put truckloads of rounds through. This little Parker feels great, and I am formulating a plan for her.

You gotta like a man with diverse interests between big bore sxs's and subgauge sxs's. Its like asking someone what type of music they like and they respond "We like both kinds of music, Country or Western"

Enjoy that new fowling piece.

[Dean Romig]

Its like asking someone what type of music they like and they respond "We like both kinds of music, Country or Western.



You've got a point there.





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[edgarspencer]

I had the seller get a smith close to her get the barrels measured and evaluated. LH .0265" RH .0266., RH modified and LH Full, matching the letter.

I've read this over and over and it's not making sense to me.

What kind of instrument was the 'smith' using that can measure, and differentiate in ten thousands of an inch. Why is the Right barrel, one tenth tighter (.0001") than the left, called Modified, when the Left barrel (I agree that .026" is full), one ten thousands more open is called Full.
I agree that a conventional micrometer can measure in tenths (.0001") but I am not aware of gunsmiths, or anyone outside of laboratory conditions, measuring bores down to a tenth.

[Dean Romig]

I'm guessing those measurements are MBWT...





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[David Gehman]

[QUOTE=Mark Ray;246431]Got the gun in hand

You knew that before you started this thread.

[Todd Poer]

Just a hunch but I think Mark reported that the barrel thickness for both is about .026 for both barrels. Then quickly indicated that barrels were modified and full without giving the constrictions. If both barrels were .0266 and .0265, I'd say both were full and full. I have not had my barrels measured and have never seen this piece in person but did see old Larry measuring a barrel thickness. His was an analog gauge but not certain why it can't be digital.

Btw digital weight scales are an inferior technology. I had one that was constantly wrong. Have an old analog bathroom scale that I use that gives me a number I much prefer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pbCnqkLjUE

[Dean Romig]

Have an old analog bathroom scale that I use that gives me a number I much prefer.

Is that with or without your shoes on?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pbCnqkLjUE

I think "Old Larry" oversimplifies what he's trying to demonstrate by leaving out several very critical steps.





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[edgarspencer]

I'm guessing those measurements are MBWT...

Most likely true, Dean. Still, what instrument, (in a gunsmith's tool kit) measuring either bore diameter, or wall thickness, gives a one tenth resolution?

[Eric Eis]

Hosford gauge

[edgarspencer]

The other glaring issue, that I had not expected is the addition of a barrel sling swivel. Nicely done, but the gun does not letter for it.
I have a 16ga DHE, with sling swivels, and I have seen several other Parkers with them. A fellow I consider fairly knowledgeable in the oddities of Parkers, who also happens to be a former President of the PGCA, indicated to me that he felt they were original, Meriden, installed swivels. That said, I have yet to see a research letter where either the order book, or stock book has noted that swivels were installed on the gun for which the letter was written. I'm sure there are such entries, just that I've yet to see one.

[Eric Eis]

I have a 16ga DHE, with sling swivels, and I have seen several other Parkers with them. A fellow I consider fairly knowledgeable in the oddities of Parkers, who also happens to be a former President of the PGCA, indicated to me that he felt they were original, Meriden, installed swivels. That said, I have yet to see a research letter where either the order book, or stock book has noted that swivels were installed on the gun for which the letter was written. I'm sure there are such entries, just that I've yet to see one.

I think Rich Anderson has a gun that letters for sling swivels

[edgarspencer]

Hosford gauge

As much as I like his gauge, especially the new milled beam version, I really doubt it has resolution of one tenth. Even your pulse will cause that much , or more needle movement.

[Eric Eis]

I didn't know that.

[Mark Ray]

I've read this over and over and it's not making sense to me.

What kind of instrument was the 'smith' using that can measure, and differentiate in ten thousands of an inch. Why is the Right barrel, one tenth tighter (.0001") than the left, called Modified, when the Left barrel (I agree that .026" is full), one ten thousands more open is called Full.
I agree that a conventional micrometer can measure in tenths (.0001") but I am not aware of gunsmiths, or anyone outside of laboratory conditions, measuring bores down to a tenth.

Edgar,

My high school English teacher would be embarrassed, I should have been more clear. The measurement he gave me was for MBWT, I cannot say what instrument he used. Bore constriction RB .010 LB .022. I don't know the gentleman, he was a gunsmith the seller uses. I just wanted to make sure the tubes were safe to shoot. Although they are decent, the bores do have some general roughness....I will hit them with a drill and frontier pads soon to see what the deal is there.

[Mark Ray]

[QUOTE=Mark Ray;246431]Got the gun in hand

You knew that before you started this thread.

David...I don't understand this statement. I did not pick the gun up until yesterday morning. I had the gun measurements done by a gunsmith that it is near the sellers location, to determine if the barrels were sound, before I bought the gun. Until yesterday morning, I had only seen pictures. The surprise was the swivel on the barrels. In the sellers defense, she is a pistol and "black gun" shop, and knows next to nothing about sporting arms...

Beginning to make a plan for a modest custom quail killer! The finish marks on the right side of the receiver are better (not great) after a ballistol/frontier pad session. the barrels ring, even with the sling strap loop attached. will remeove it and try again...suspect they will chime nicely.

[David Gehman]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I meant that it was “love at first sight”. Deep inside you knew you were going to make her yours.

[Mark Ray]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I meant that it was “love at first sight”. Deep inside you knew you were going to make her yours.

No Worries!!!

Every time I spend a little time on “another forum” to remain unnamed, I get jumpy about an ambush!!!!