The long and the short of it - an inside story

[Jack Cronkhite]

Just putzing today and temporarily ran out of things to do. I am intigued with the tiny parts inside a Parker hammerless frame. These are not seen unless you gain the nerve to tear down your Parker. So this Mother’s Day, I decided to compare the longest and shortest screws, coil springs and pins to while away a few more minutes of my day. Cheers Jack
PS. The grid in the pics is 1/4 inch squares

[Dean Romig]

Jack, where does that small screw go, in the water table or beneath the top lever?





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[edgarspencer]

or the side of the trigger plate?

[Jim DiSpagno]

If we are guessing, I’ll say the top lever retaining screw.

[Jack Cronkhite]

And if there were a prize, Edgar would win. It is in the side of the trigger plate to limit the travel of the unhooking slide

[Jack Cronkhite]

Okay how about the springs and pins??

[Brian Dudley]

His photos are as follows...

Unhooking slide retaining screw next to the front tang screw.

Trip spring next to a mainspring

Safety button pin next to the sear pin.

[Dean Romig]

Hey.... this is a game for ametuers... Pros are disqualified. :rotf:





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[Jack Cronkhite]

There’s a reason pros get it. Brian is a pro. Cheers Jack

[Brian Dudley]

Oh... you failed to specify the rules of the game.

[Daryl Corona]

And if there were a prize, Edgar would win. It is in the side of the trigger plate to limit the travel of the unhooking slide

Edgar IS the man!:bowdown:

[Jack Cronkhite]

It became a game but was posted on a whim. Well played. Cheers jack

[Harry Sanders]

Great answers. Let's start a new twist on it. Let's start a discussion on evolutionary changes in hammerless guns. Hammers guns after we've exhausted hammerless. I'll start. Early guns had two separate pinned into the frame V sear springs on either side of the "block" that the top lever descends into. Later guns have a horizontal slot cut and flat spring inserted into the slot. Brian only one answer! Until we get to the subtleties at the end then it's fair game. Think we'll need to do the hammer guns by group. Lifter, top lever back action, etc.
Have fun.

[Dean Romig]

Harry, can you restate the question please? I'm not sure I understand what you're asking...





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[Jack Cronkhite]

Good morning. I believe Harry refers to the early individual sear springs and the later combined spring. When it comes to removal from a rusted frame I much prefer the later style. I think all (most)Trojans have the combined spring. I found a combined sear spring in VH 228041. The later guns simplified the internal mechanics with other changes to top lever, top lever spring and bolt system. Cheers Jack

[Harry Sanders]

That's it. Discuss the mechanical design changes in hammerless guns through their evolution. Jack did it one better than I did by showing pictures.

[Dean Romig]

Okay - I thought there was a question Harry was posing.





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[Brian Dudley]

Well... The very FIRST mechanical change to the hammerless Parker was only about 6 months after it was originally produced.

Originally the HAMMERLESS Parker did not have rebounding hammers. Instead the hammers were drawn back away from the primers by two tabs on the lop lever linkage cam. The tabs pressed back on a cut on the inside of both of the hammers. The hammers were drawn back by the opening of the lever and then the gun opened and cocked as normal.
Very quickly, this feature was done away with and hammers with the rebounding stirrups were used.

The patent that covers the hammer "lifting" feature on the hammerless guns was 368401. The design was replaced by rebounding patent No. 412340.

See here a photo of the "lifter" mechanism as I call it.

Old on left and newer on right.

62730

[Harry Sanders]

Thanks Brian. Never been inside one of the non rebounding guns. Roughly what S/N we're they?

[Brian Dudley]

The one I have pictured is 56157. I have a bunch of info on this tucked away somewhere that I started compiling for a PP article. I was trying to narrow down a serial number and date range. It obviously starts with the first hammerless (55295). So, that right there is just under 1,000 numbers.

I had several recorded numbers of early guns that I knew did not have the hammer lifting feature. But I cannot find that list at the moment so I cannot say how larger the window may be. Not by much though.

[Jack Cronkhite]

So a little sleuthing here.

55295 is first hammerless built in 1888
Rebound patent # 412340 issued Oct 8, 1889
59123 is last SN for 1889
1889 saw 3018 guns built so last two months would account for 503 guns + or -

Unknown quantity of existing inventory to be expended to use post Oct 8, 1889 but maybe the 500 guns could have used it up (or not but probably close) by end of year

So 59123 has potential to be near the end of Parkers with non-rebounding internal hammers.

Anybody got one near 59123 to have a look??

Cheers, Jack